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Odium and Honor's Agreement


EC11

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Okay so I've been thinking recently, we know that the agreements made by gods are things that mere mortals have difficulty understanding (see Sazed's reference to Leras and Ati's pact about creating and destroying the world). We also know that Odium and Honor came to an agreement of some kind, one where each of them is bound by specific rules. That means that there is something which governs interactions between the gods of the Cosmere.

 

So my specific thinking is this, Odium and Honor had an agreement regarding something martial (as evidenced by Honor's reference to a champion) and it clearly had something to do with the Desolations.

 

I also think that the Heralds torture between Desolations was apart of that. Then the Heralds breaking their oath was something which fractured the pact between Odium and Honor, which may have freed Odium from whatever rules were governing their interactions, which in turn allowed him to kill Honor.

 

My personal theory is that a Shard's power is what would force these agreements to matter, or at least a Shard's intent would have to be bent to it.

 

Does this make sense? Any thoughts?

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I think the two examples you give (Ati / Leras and Honor / Odium) are different.

 

Ati and Leras were diametrically opposed to each other, a direct confrontation would be mutually assured destruction.

 

Indeed this is excatly how things ended in HoA

 

They really had no choice but to work through intermediaries.

 

I do not think Odium and Honor had such an issue. They would not both be annihilated by a direct confrontation (althoug such a fight would probably have cause significant collateral damage).

 

However, Honor is the Shard of Oaths. In this specific capacity, his power far exceeded Odiums. I am willing to bet that even another shard like Odium could not break an agreement made with the Honor Shard itself.

 

The key for me is how in damnation did Honor actually got Odium to form an agreement in the first place...

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A big problem with this idea is that we have WoB that the splintering of Honor (which is very likely very closely related to the death of Tanavast) was only tangentially affected by the nine's abandonment of the Oathpact.

 

Source

Wetlander: Was Odium able to splinter Honor because the Heralds abandoned the Oathpact?

 

A: Good question. Um, their abandonment of the Oathpact is related…but mostly tangentially.  If I was pinned down on that, I would say no. 

 

Wetlander: Is there any of the Oathpact still functioning because e of Taln continued participation.

 

A: Yes, indeed.

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I am not fully certain what you mean in the last (and most important) paragraph. Could you elaborate a little?

 

What I meant here was that I figured that Honor would by force of his shards intent, compel Odium to be bound to an agreement. Odium, though his intent is hatred, might be then compelled by the force of Honor's intent to accept. Then when he is bound by an agreement he has to follow it.

 

Though what has me stumped is when Honor mentions a champion, and that there are rules that all of them must follow. In that sense I also figured that there would be something (perhaps the fact that all the shards are originally from one place) that would compel all the Shards to work together on an issue or be bound by an agreement.

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I think the two examples you give (Ati / Leras and Honor / Odium) are different.

 

Ati and Leras were diametrically opposed to each other, a direct confrontation would be mutually assured destruction.

 

Indeed this is excatly how things ended in HoA

 

They really had no choice but to work through intermediaries.

 

I do not think Odium and Honor had such an issue. They would not both be annihilated by a direct confrontation (althoug such a fight would probably have cause significant collateral damage).

 

However, Honor is the Shard of Oaths. In this specific capacity, his power far exceeded Odiums. I am willing to bet that even another shard like Odium could not break an agreement made with the Honor Shard itself.

 

The key for me is how in damnation did Honor actually got Odium to form an agreement in the first place...

 

True I think my comparison may fall apart there.

 

However, I do think that Odium must have seen an advantage in making some agreement with Honor (maybe something that prevented Cultivation and Honor joining forces against him) and using it to bring on the Desolations.

 

 

A big problem with this idea is that we have WoB that the splintering of Honor (which is very likely very closely related to the death of Tanavast) was only tangentially affected by the nine's abandonment of the Oathpact.

 

Source

 

 

True, but it did have some effect. I'm merely curious how Honor (outside of using the power of his intent to compel him) to lure Odium into this series of apocalyptic wars on Roshar.

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From my understanding they would have all know each other maybe not all friend but at least acquaintances before they took up the shards. if you look at preservation's and ruin's agreement it shows that even opposites can work together. Odium does not necessarily want total destruction. So maybe honor offered him a challenge and the binding rules of that challenge upheld by honors power are what can bind odium to it. I don't think honor could compel odium against his will into a binding agreement. Early on when this most likely happened they would have still had some of there own intent unlike ruin who spent a very long time bound my the mind of preservation. Its possible that ruin is an outlier for total consumption of his own intent due to his long imprisonment. Granted if Rayse is Odium then his intent and the shards were probably very close to start with.

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