Hoid is the villain of the Cosmere saga

[Two McMillion]

We've been following Hoid around the Cosmere for several books now. And we're not the only ones. I propose that the reason that the 17th Shard is chasing Hoid is because he is a force for evil in the Cosmere.

 

Points in favor of this view:

 

Of the 17th Shard members we saw chasing Hoid in WoK, two of them were people we have seen before: Galladon and Demoux. Neither of Galladon or Demoux are villains, and it's hard to imagine them not having good reasons for chasing Hoid down.

 

In the epilogue for WoK, Hoid tells the Herald that appears, "You are too late." This scene makes it appear that Hoid is enjoying watching the Herald struggle, secure in the knowledge that the Herald cannot stop what is already in motion. Hoid's entire attitude during this scene doesn't seem to be in keeping with someone who's really concerned about what's happening- it reminds me more of someone savoring another person being caught in a trap they set. Hoid's behavior as Wit, the fact he betrayed Shai, and the fact (from the letter) that he holds grudges seem to paint a picture of him that is anything but kindly. Did Hoid write the Ars Arcanum for Alloy of Law? If so, then he said there that of all the three metallic arts, Hemalurgy has the most possibilities for the rest of the Cosmere. Hoid is apparently okay with the cold-blooded murder of others (to power Hemalurgy) if his own goals are furthered.

 

Hoid is always present when chaos is occurring. We know he has some way of detecting where he needs to be next, but does he follow chaos or does he cause it? It is certainly suspicious that he is so often present in times of trouble. Very bad things often happen to people Hoid is around- is this simply a coincidence? Hoid has collected a great many magical powers for himself, has a way of knowing where there's trouble, and can travel to those places- but despite his apparently immense power, he has made very few apparent moves to fight the evil that goes on around him. This is criminally irresponsible of him at best, and malicious at worst. Hoid was perfectly willing to lie to Siri in the guise of the storyteller. His lying to her prevented her from getting the information she needed quickly, and Siri's incorrect information was the cause and several deaths  and (almost) a war. Hoid could have sought Siri out and prevented this, but did not. He could even have flatly told her what she needed, even in public- what does Hoid have to be afraid of? I find it hard to believe that many people on Nalthis are a threat to Hoid, given the amount of magic he can apparently use. Likewise, Hoid could have saved thousands on lives on Scadrial by using the Well of Ascension, or giving Vin instructions about it, but he did not. Did he not know about the Well? But he knew enough to take a bead of Lerasium- how could he know that and not know about the Well?

 

The letter in WoK would seem to make Hoid out to be a good guy, but Hoid wrote the letter. Of course he's going to present himself as a good guy. Yes, Hoid is opposed to Odium. But the Lord Ruler opposed Ruin, and the Lord Ruler was a villain. The same letter indicates that Hoid has a stolen bead of Lerasium- apparently in violation of certain rules.

 

Vin was going to see Hoid in Mistborn 3, but felt something wrong about him and left. Having grown up in the streets, Vin probably has a good instinct for these things. Did something in Hoid's demeanor send the message that he is not to be trusted?

 

In short, Hoid is liar, a betrayer, a manipulator, and a thief. He possesses a large amount of extremely dangerous magic- as if apparently having access to both Feruchemy and, through Lerasium, Allomancy as well wasn't enough, he can worldhop, make illusions, see the future, is apparently something like immortal, and can possibly awaken. With the exception of the Shards themselves, it is quite possible Hoid is the most powerful being in the Cosmere. What is he after? If there is an evil force opposing Adonalsium, could it possibly be Hoid himself? We know Hoid was present when Adonalsium was shattered- but was he simply an observer, or could it be that Hoid himself is responsible for Adonalsium's shattering?

 

I believe it is quite simple. Adonalsium, god, the maker of the Cosmere is dead, and Hoid was the one that killed him. Hoid now seeks to destroy the remaining Shards, the only beings more powerful than himself. When that is done, Hoid will install himself as both god and emperor of the entire Cosmere, and all life in that universe will be at his mercy. Perhaps he thinks it is better that way. Perhaps he thinks his own kingship is preferable to everything that happens now. In any case, the only thing that stands between Hoid and domination of the Cosmere is the 17th Shard... and at last check, they were off track.

[Scriptorian]

You pose some interesting arguments...but kindly allow me to blast some holes in your theory.

 

17th shard members: we know they were acting under orders from someone who personally disapproves of Hoid, so for all we know, their intentions are good, but misguided. Besides, Galladon calls him "Roamer" not "Evil Mastermind" or something. 

 

Yes he betrays Shai, but this results not only in the stabilization of an empire, but also nudges that empire towards great positive reform.

 

I personally am not inclined to think that Hoid is the Ars Arcanum author, but even if he is, it is quite reasonable to conclude that Hemalurgy has the greatest potential impact on the Cosmere given its rather adaptable applications (He/she/it isn't necessarily advocating its use).

 

Eh...he does have a knack for being around trouble...

 

With Siri, Hoid gave her far more information than anyone else could have (unless you assume he knew about the Pahn Kal rebellion). And  what was he going to tell her? "I'm an ancient and silly worldhopper from before the universe broke, and the people you thought were your allies are actually manipulating you and have been from the start of the book." And this scenario turned out far better than other possible outcomes.

 

 

If Hoid had intervened on Scadrial, lives would have been saved in the short run, but ultimately Ruin would have escaped on his own, probably killed Hoid, and destroyed the planet. Again, despite all of the deaths, this ended considerably better than it could have.

 

Everything we've seen from him indicates that he tries to remain anonymous, far from installing himself as a pseudo-deity.  

 

Your argument also presumes that he is powerful enough to confront all of the evil forces in all of the books, but if he was really evil himself, then why doesn't he "intervene" on behalf of the bad guys? The most he ever intervenes is through dispensing information...to the good guys. He probably does have a lot more investiture than most people, but he never uses it except for the occasional worldhop. If he really is an evil mastermind, then he is an unsuccessful one, since all of his "plots" end up with the good guys winning. Especially when he actually takes part in the events.

 

Arguments in favor of Hoid being a good guy:

 

He gives Kaladin a super-pep-talk through storytelling that leads to him developing his surgbinding, which leads to him saving Dalinar and two thousand bridgmen.

 

He established both the Worldbringers and Worldsingers as sources of historical preservation and cultural understanding.

 

He abandons his original objective in the Well of Ascension to help and guide the Terris refugees.

 

He opposes Odium.

 

He plays a mean flute.

 

Umm...we have absolutely no evidence that he ever does anything to try and kill people or rule them or anything, despite there being ample opportunities for him to do so.

 

He is, however, a liar and a thief. But so is Wayne.

 

Edit: I was applying the Assuredness Movement's techniques here. We really don't know near here enough to make any certain conclusions. Errorgance, if you will.

It would be a very Sanderson twist to pull an evil Hoid, but I don't see it happening.

Edited September 25, 2013 by Serendipity

[scottos]

This is a really interesting perspective on the character of Hoid. Based on the current evidence we have, your points seem very solid. But this also makes me think that Hoid could be very misunderstood, particularly by the 17th Shard. Also, I think it might be to early to jump the gun on if he is good or evil. For example, in politics people tend to draw sides, saying one party is good and one party is evil. When in fact neither party is inherently evil or good, they merely have a different perspective on the same issue. Ruin and Preservation are a good examples of this. I think Hoid may be similar. I can't wait to hear what others have to say on this. 

[Miyabi]

One big thing here is that we don't really know who/what Adonalsium was before it shattered.

Hoid seems to be helping in ways that assist the Shards.

If Adonalsium had inherently been evil, Hoid's potential attempts to assist those Shards which want to reconnect and opposing those which want to destroy the Shards could be an evil plan.

A.K.A: Helping Kaladin to eventually restore Honor and Unite it with Cultivation may seem like a good-guy move, but it eventually leads to utter doom.

[Two McMillion]

Edit: I was applying the Assuredness Movement's techniques here. We really don't know near here enough to make any certain conclusions. Errorgance, if you will.

 

Heh. 20 posts into my 17th Shard career, and I've already seen people twice say things like to try not to upset people... for things that really weren't offensive or mean in the slightest.

 

Nice community you have here.

 

(And I was invoking a bit of Assuredness myself!)

[Two McMillion]

Serendipity, you make a good point about Hoid not doing any on-screen evil acts. However, consider the points raised in Adonalsium Proliferation. To my mind, it is very possible that Hoid is ignoring "acts of evil" because, next to his real plans, they're small potatoes. Instead of kicking puppies, Hoid may simply be busily engaged in the business of unlocking the magic of the Cosmere for himself- at which time he will be able to kick all the puppies he wants. Perhaps I am placing unreasonable expectations on the man, but it does seem that what power he already has he is using mostly selfishly- and I doubt this will change as he acquires more.

[Kadrok]

Does Hoid really have the right to interfere in other people's problems? Perhaps he could render aid at their request, but that would require understanding on their part. He is a storyteller though, maybe he's working up to the point where people will understand enough to request aid at some later point. Or maybe fostering understanding in the people is the ideal way to solve the most problems. Sometimes people need to solve their own problems to grow... I mean, what could he really have done to make the Scadrial situation better? I think Scadrial turned out as well as it could have: Ruin is no longer trying to destroy the planet, Preservation is no longer brainless... from where they were, it did not seem at all like there was much chance of that happening, but it did and I call it a win.

 

In short, just because he has amazing powers, doesn't mean he's a magic bullet for everyone's problem. Real change comes slowly and requires a much more personal investment than sending a few barrages of magic missiles at a problem. Just because Hoid allows evil to continue doesn't mean he is evil himself.

[Shardlet]

Also, if he views the work he is doing as being critically important, can he afford the substantial risk to himself by getting directly involved (as in fighting, etc.) in planet affairs rather than simply influencing significant people and collecting the tools he believes he needs?

[Unknowingly]

Interesting topic

Good points on Hoid being evil, very convincing and well thought out but, I think we just don't know enough anout him. He could be evil and there is every possibility that he is working towards maybe ruling the cosmere by himself.

I on the other hand believe he is working towards a much greater good then we can comprehend with the little information we have about the cosmere right now. Because of this he doesn't have time to worry anout small little wars that last a couple of decades (to him this is nothing since he is several thousand years old), instead he looks at the bigger picture and nudges the different shardworlds in the right directions

[Gloom]

I think Hoid is pursuing his own goals. I believe that Hoid thinks that what he is doing is the right thing, and that his are the right reasons. I don't believe that Hoid feels it is him responsibility to look out for the welfare of every thief, wanderer, or slave he crosses paths with.

 

Good and evil are subjective to the time and place where they occur. St. George was considered a hero and sainted for reputedly killing an endangered species. St. Patrick was also heralded as a savior and a hero for eliminating every snake in an entire micro-environment. In our time, both of these acts would be seen as a crime against nature. At the time they occurred, they  were considered both necessary and laudable achievements.

 

I think Hoid has good intentions, and can't blame him for arming himself with every nifty piece of investiture that he can get his hands on. I know I would.

 

I do like it when people think outside the box though, so I'll give you an up-vote for looking at it from a different angle.