Breaking Bendalloy

[Pechvarry]

Objects inside of a bendalloy bubble go awry when exiting.  What happens if the object is already outside of the bubble when you affect it?  Normally, this isn't an issue.  But it is with other allomancy.

 

Example 1: TurboRiot

Put a Rioter inside a bendalloy bubble.  Can he affect the emotions of people on the outside?

 

Example 2: Hyperdrive

Wayne is standing next to Wax.  Wax throws out a double handful of coins, shell casings, etc towards some bad guys.  Wayne drops a bendalloy bubble as soon as the metal debris is far enough away to not get caught.  The metal bits are now suspended in air just outside the bubble.  Wax probably can't reach out and touch the metal, and it wouldn't gain him any advantage.  But what happens if he burns Steel?  Do blue lines point to the metal bits, as opposed to being in a "read-only" universe, relative to him?  If the answer to Example 1 was Yes, then this answer is also likely yes.

 

If he Pushes on a metal bit, does it go flying straight away from him?  Afterall, it's not passing through the bubble.  Does it distort and fly somewhere random anyway, because the enacting force (his blue line) itself has to distort through the bubble?  Then you've found a way to violate (in an unpredictable and nigh-useless manner) one of the most basic principles of Steel and Iron: the immutable vector based off of your center of gravity.

 

If you can push it in a straight line away from you, I think you could continue to add velocity to the metal bits through continued Pushing (like thrusters on space craft), turning the debris quite devestating.

 

Thoughts?

Edited July 20, 2013 by Pechvarry

[DocHoliday]

.....this has distinct, and devastating consequences........based on AoL events (warehouse scene) I think blue line would point to all metal regardless of Bubble. And the ability toline up Pushes free of distraction, would likely allow one to clear an entire room of baddies.

O.M.G.

[Windborne Sword]

Objects inside of a bendalloy bubble go awry when exiting.  What happens if the object is already outside of the bubble when you affect it?  Normally, this isn't an issue.  But it is with other allomancy.

 

Example 1: TurboRiot

Put a Rioter inside a bendalloy bubble.  Can he affect the emotions of people on the outside?

 

Example 2: Hyperdrive

Wayne is standing next to Wax.  Wax throws out a double handful of coins, shell casings, etc towards some bad guys.  Wayne drops a bendalloy bubble as soon as the metal debris is far enough away to not get caught.  The metal bits are now suspended in air just outside the bubble.  Wax probably can't reach out and touch the metal, and it wouldn't gain him any advantage.  But what happens if he burns Steel?  Do blue lines point to the metal bits, or are they in a "read-only" universe, relative to him?  If the answer to Example 1 was Yes, then this answer is also likely yes.

 

If he Pushes on a metal bit, does it go flying straight away from him?  Afterall, it's not passing through the bubble.  Does it distort and fly somewhere random anyway, because the enacting force (his blue line) itself has to distort through the bubble?  Then you've found a way to violate (in an unpredictable and nigh-useless manner) one of the most basic principles of Steel and Iron: the immutable vector based off of your center of gravity.

 

If you can push it in a straight line away from you, I think you could continue to add velocity to the metal bits through continued Pushing (like thrusters on space craft), turning the debris quite devestating.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I can imagine this being really useful for Lurchers as well in the upcoming 2nd trilogy for law enforcement. Imagine a team with a Slider (Bendalloy Misting) and a Lurcher with a riotshield or something. The Slider puts up a bubble during a firefight while he is standing next to the Lurcher and the Lurcher pulls all the bullets that are flying in the air towards himself so he can block them all with his shield. 

[Claincy]

I can imagine this being really useful for Lurchers as well in the upcoming 2nd trilogy for law enforcement. Imagine a team with a Slider (Bendalloy Misting) and a Lurcher with a riotshield or something. The Slider puts up a bubble during a firefight while he is standing next to the Lurcher and the Lurcher pulls all the bullets that are flying in the air towards himself so he can block them all with his shield. 

Hrm that could be a tad difficult to do. Because the bullets are still going to have to pass through the bubble at some point and are going to deflect at that point. Making it dangerous for the slider and anyone else in the bubble.

[Windborne Sword]

Hrm that could be a tad difficult to do. Because the bullets are still going to have to pass through the bubble at some point and are going to deflect at that point. Making it dangerous for the slider and anyone else in the bubble.

 

True, but you could just make the bullets come towards you and than drop the bubble and be fine. Just like Wax did with his Ricochet-style shot to kill some mook in AoL.

[aeromancer]

You guys are taking this for granted. Once that Steelpush, or Ironpull leaves the bubble, it assumes the same speed as everything outside the bubble. It works, but there really isn't that big of a difference from regularly Push/Pulling. 

[Pechvarry]

There's still a pretty large difference in mindshare, if nothing else.  In my example, you have several metal bits just outside the bubble.  You begin positioning yourself in the bubble opposite bad guys, pushing on metal bits briefly, and repositioning slightly.  Sure, they don't suddenly zip away from you, because they're in slow-time.  But you have the time to set the trajectory.  Additionally, as I pointed out before, you should be able to continue applying a steady Push to accelerate the object even more.

 

The really strange part: what impact does this have on you?  If you're pushing as hard as you can on a simple coin, but it's barely moving because of a time differential, do you get thrown back as if it weighed much more than it does?

[DocHoliday]

You guys are taking this for granted. Once that Steelpush, or Ironpull leaves the bubble, it assumes the same speed as everything outside the bubble. It works, but there really isn't that big of a difference from regularly Push/Pulling. 

In real time, yes the shrapnel is being slowed, but thanks to the Bubble, the shrapnel has been Pushed into a new trajectory. While it's nothing to the individual inside the Bubble, to the perceptions of others outside it would look something like this:

 

John Doe is sitting at the table playing cards with his 5favorite chums, .45son the table; when the doors get kicked in by Joe, Moe, and Curly busting through. Curly and Moe  throw handfuls of various odds and ends in a cloud right  in front of them at the same time John Doe grabs his gun. Before he stands up Joe burns Bendalloy and the whole cloud comes streaking toward the table. John burns his Iron but even as the blue lines appear, death descends on the table.

[Yados]

Aw, I clicked on this thread thinking it was going to be a Cosmere mashup with Breaking Bad. 

[Kurkistan]

Don't worry, so did I. Imagine my pleasure when I found out it was about time bubbles, my favorite thing, instead!

[DocHoliday]

Don't worry, so did I. Imagine my pleasure when I found out it was about time bubbles, my favorite thing, instead!

dear God...FTL...LOL

[aeromancer]

It's not that bad! 

[DocHoliday]

Look man, I was reading that $#!+ today and my mother-in-law came up to me. Placed her hand on my shoulder and said, is okay dear, what's wrong? Evidently she thought someone had died by the look on my face.

[Kurkistan]

Out of (narcissistic) curiosity, was "that $#!+" my thread, or the mid-level relativity on aeromancer's?

Edited July 23, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Pechvarry]

/>Aw, I clicked on this thread thinking it was going to be a Cosmere mashup with Breaking Bad.

Read the tags.

[king of nowhere]

I think in AoL time they know allomancy enough, and wax and wayne are experienced enough, that if that was possible, they would have done it.

The better explanation then would be that the pushing is also slowed down. I theorized that the pushing has a certain speed itself, and you cant push faster than that (otherwise duraluminium push could reach relativistic speed, or at least go to the point where the thrown item melts for friction with the air). so pushing from inside a bubble would do little good.

Also, you can't line up, because you can't move much.

So it is an advantage, but not a dramatic one.

[Shardlet]

Also, you can't line up, because you can't move much.

So it is an advantage, but not a dramatic one.

 

Depends on how big your bubble is, how many guys you're up against, etc.  What it does allow for is precision strikes against multiple enemies in a very brief amount of real-time.  Especially in a crowd.  If you were to toss out an arc of metal pieces and make a general push, you would hit a lot of innocents.  If you were to strike at each enemy individully, it would take up a lot of time and you would have to be very aware of your enemies' attacks.  But, if you toss out an arc of metal and put up a bubble after the pieces pass out of the would-be bubbles diameter and individually select an advantageous piece of metal to selectively push on to hit a particular enemy, then, you could hit multiple enemies, very precisely, in a crowd of innocents with few, if any, innocents being harmed.  Sounds like a nice advantage to me.

 

Edit: killed the repeated 'a'.  I am kinda anal about typos in my posts.

Edited July 24, 2013 by Shardlet

[Pechvarry]

Also, you could walk to one edge, push a piece. Walk to the other side. Wait a moment and let it move a few cm, then push on it from your new trajectory.

Basically, even though you lack a broad perspective, you have the time to fine-tune. Plus, who doesn't like a curveball coinshot?

[DocHoliday]

@Kurk. Ya "another FTL theory" made my head hurt 

 

Shardlet hit the nail on the head, it takes some forethought to execute but this might even work against a Lurcher if he didn't know which shrapnel he needs to affect. 

 

The whole business reminds me of the Ironman movie scene involving hostages.

[Abevan]

Apologies if this is mentioned, but what speed could you get the coins to?

 

Are they accelerated the same as if there were no bubble and so would be moving incredibly fast outside of it, or are they accelerated the same outside of the bubble either way, but from inside you get much longer to push, resulted in the same high speeds (just using more steel)?

[aeromancer]

It is true that if an object is accelerated faster, the speed will be faster. However, let's take this one step further; suppose you had someone Nicrobursting a Slider while burning Bendalloy would be creating a speed-bubble with effectively no time passing on the outside. Thus any acceleration would happen during a frozen moment in time. On the outside world, since their is no way to measure the amount of time the acceleration happened, as it happened in a frozen moment of time, the acceleration could be said to be infinite. Therefore (drumroll please), we have yet another FTL theory!

[Pechvarry]

/>Are they accelerated the same as if there were no bubble and so would be moving incredibly fast outside of it, or are they accelerated the same outside of the bubble either way, but from inside you get much longer to push, resulted in the same high speeds (just using more steel)?

This is, indeed, the question. I'm working under the assumption that from inside the bubble, the metal would appear to move slowly. So you would push but not see immediate results. However, it's as likely to put the metal into your timeframe and endanger relativity. It's also likely that you would essentially be pushing against the weight of an entire timeline and be violently thrown out of the back of the bubble and not have a meaningful impact on the coin.

Assuming the slow push, though, (and implicit delayed causality) your continued pushing wouldn't result in it hitting "the same high speeds". like pushing someone in a shopping cart, you get more speed by running with it before shoving off.

[happyman]

It is true that if an object is accelerated faster, the speed will be faster. However, let's take this one step further; suppose you had someone Nicrobursting a Slider while burning Bendalloy would be creating a speed-bubble with effectively no time passing on the outside. Thus any acceleration would happen during a frozen moment in time. On the outside world, since their is no way to measure the amount of time the acceleration happened, as it happened in a frozen moment of time, the acceleration could be said to be infinite. Therefore (drumroll please), we have yet another FTL theory!

 

Not to be nit-picky, but in the real world, infinite acceleration would get things to the speed of light instantly, but no faster!  This is because the speed of light gives objects infinite momentum---and momentum is far more fundamental than velocity.

[Kurkistan]

And then this happens.

[aeromancer]

That's why you do it in a vacuum.