The origin of Adonalsium (the word)

[Khmauv]

Out of curiosity I was trying to dissect the name Adonalsium to see if there may be something interesting there to understand. This is what I found.

 

Using Google translate (I know, not the most accurate source of translation) I found I could break up the the word into Adon and Alsium. Adon is a title meaning Lord, and Alsium meaning Elysium. (keep in mind I am typing in hebrew using the english letters adon alsium)

 

So the meaning I get out is Adonalsium means: Lord of Elysium

 

Digging deeper --

 

-Elysium is an afterlife paradise for heroes, the righteous, and those chosen by the gods.

-Stories of Elysium were told by a Greek oral poet named...*cough* Hoid *cough*...Hesiod.

-The ruler of Elysium was Cronus. Cronus was cast down by his children foremost among them Zeus.

 

My thoughts. I think there is some rough semblance between the Greek mythology of Cronus and the fall of Adonalsium. I don't think that Brandon is drawing all inspiration from Greek mythology but I think there are some insights.

 

- I didn't find anything online to back this up but I recall from somewhere (maybe  the Percy Jackson books) that Cronus was cut up and scattered over the earth to keep him from reforming and retaking control of the heavens. The idea of scattering aside, all sources I have found agree that Cronus ate his children for fear they would overthrow him, Zeus later forces Cronus to expel them, either by vomiting them up, or by cutting him open. His children then take control of the heavens.

 

I think this parallels the fall of Adonalsium, and leads me to wonder if Adonalsium was a Tyrannical God thrown down by his Children or other lesser beings. Maybe the reconstitution of Adonalsium is not a good idea. 

 

- Just to point this out again because I don't think it is coincidence that the Greek Poet was names Hesoid. I can't look at that name and NOT see HOID staring back at me. I think this idea is reinforced by Brandon's depiction of Hoid as a storyteller in both Nalthis and Roshar (maybe storyteller isn't accurate but close enough).

 

Maybe there isn't much to be gained from this research by I think it is interesting and does give some insight into the mythology of the cosmere.

 

Your thoughts? Critiques?

[WeiryWriter]

Well, the "lord" part of the meaning is already known (http://coppermind.net/wiki/Adonalsium#Trivia).  About the rest, I think if you look hard enough you can find connections anywhere, whether or not the author actually intended them.  BTW where did you see Kronus being the ruler of the Fields of Elysium?  I've never heard that before.

 

Personally I like the "ad nauseum" idea the best.

[Morsk]

edit: Er, I was confusing Cronus and Uranus. I don't have time to look up more now.

I like the "Lord" theories, but it also ends in -ium which is the ending for metals and other scientific things, although I think that's a side-effect of it being from Latin. Someone who actually knows some Latin would be able to say more about it! I just think -ium sounds more appropriate for a thing than a person, whatever it is.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Morsk

[Kurkistan]

According to Wiktionary, "-ium" is appended to either metals or "settings where a given activity is carried out."

 

P.S. Or when people are trying to sound fancy.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Khmauv]

Well, the "lord" part of the meaning is already known (http://coppermind.net/wiki/Adonalsium#Trivia).  About the rest, I think if you look hard enough you can find connections anywhere, whether or not the author actually intended them.  BTW where did you see Kronus being the ruler of the Fields of Elysium?  I've never heard that before.

 

Personally I like the "ad nauseum" idea the best.

That's just it. I didn't look very hard. It just popped up. I'll concede that much of the idea was forced particularly in regard to Cronus. However, I stand firm in my belief that Adonalsium is Adon Alsium = Lord of Elysium. I also can't get past Hesiod the oral poet. It just seems to perfectly match Hoid.

 

As far as Cronus being the ruler of the fields of Elysium...I saw is several places here in the Wiki it say's

"The ruler of Elysium varies from author to author: Pindar and Hesiod name Cronus as the ruler"

[Meg]

That topic is interesting. I dare to share a thought that came up to me and I apologize if it's been said somewhere already. 

 

What, if that "A" and that "s" are not the important parts but "Donal" is, and that "ium" is only sort of an addition? I found that description for this name: 

 

From the Gaelic name Domhnall which means "ruler of the world", composed of the old Celtic elements dumno "world" and val "rule". This was the name of two 9th-century kings of the Scots and Picts. It has traditionally been very popular in Scotland, and during the 20th century it became common in the rest of the English-speaking world.

Source

 

So that ur-Shard was the ruler of the world(s) and was shattered by something or somebody. (Sounds similar to Cronos, I know.)

[Shardbearer]

You have two separate spellings for the name of the poet...the first one is right according to the Wikipedia article you linked to earlier. Hesiod is a little further removed from Hoid than Hesoid. There could still be something to your theory, but this throws it off just a little bit.

 

 

-Stories of Elysium were told by a Greek oral poet named...*cough* Hoid *cough*...Hesiod.

- Just to point this out again because I don't think it is coincidence that the Greek Poet was names Hesoid. I can't look at that name and NOT see HOID staring back at me.

[makromag]

Just did some quick google-foo and here's what I found out:

• Kronos ate all his kids other than Zeus, who was hidden by his mother until he grew up. Kronos was fooled and ate a rock in his stead
• Zeus got Kronos to vomit his children out, who, since they were immortal, grew up inside his stomach.
• Zeus took Kronos's own scythe and cut him to small pieces, additionally scattering them in Tartarus, the deepest part of the underworld.
• Elysium is the place people go that did good in their lifes, as opposed to Asphodel, where the majority of people go or even the Fields of Pushinment, which is the greek equivalent to hell. There is also the Isles of the Blessed, only those that where reborn three times and achieved Elysium everytime get to go there
• Since Elysium is part of the underworld, it falls in the domain of Hades, not Kronos. Kronos was the King Titan and the lord of time

So basically, Lord of Elysium would target Hades not Cronos, who at the time was practically irrelevant. Because of that I doubt that Adonalsium is supposed to mean Lord of Elysium, since Hades, albeit an important god, is not central in any way. Additionally, Lord of Elysium was not a titel used to describe him, most common were Lord of the Dead, Ruler of the Underworld and somesuch.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Hoid talks about taking a bunch of meat, chopping it up real fine, and then trying to reverse the process and reassemble the original form. It's obviously an anagram.

Adonalsium = Undo Salami

[Khmauv]

@Makromag

 

Are you finding anything that says that Hades is the lord of Elysium? I am finding, not a few, sources some that are well sited that give Kronos the title of king of Elysium. one is here.

 

I never intended for the idea to suggest that BS is copying another story. I think Brandon is far too creative to just retell a story. I do however think that he is not above taking tidbits from our own mythos to give the story more depth.

 

In reality, I just found the connection between Adonalsium and a god that was sliced up to be interesting.

 

Edit: @Phantom - I appreciate you bringing you wit and charm to the thread 

Edited May 24, 2013 by Khmauv

[makromag]

Okay, I wasn't aware, that they stitched Kronos back together after some time. I assumed Hades to be the one to control Elysium since it is part of the realm of the dead. Also, in your link it says Kronos only became the lord of Elysium only after being released a long time later.

[Khmauv]

I am NOT trying to make a direct comparison. I am only highlighting some interesting parallels. I do not believe that Adonalsium == Kronos anymore than I think that Rand Al'Thor == King Arthur, though there are a LOT of Parallels. 

Edited May 24, 2013 by Khmauv

[skaa]

We know that Brandon's Cosmere stories were inspired by various old myths and philosophies, from Eastern mysticism to Plato's theory of forms to even his own Mormon religion. Greek myth is a popular inspiration for fantasy writers, so Brandon might have gotten some things from that, too.

 

I'd wait for an actual Hebrew speaker to verify Khmauv's hunch about Adonalsium's etymology (I, too, doubt Google Translate's accuracy), but the idea of Adonalsium being some mixture of Cronus and Hades seems pretty intriguing to me. It suggests that Adonalsium might have been a god of Time and Death, perhaps not a very benevolent one, and that sounds like it could lead to some pretty interesting pre-Shattering stories.

Edited May 25, 2013 by skaa

[ROSHtafARian]

I always had a random thought about the -ium suffix to Adonalsium - what if Adonalsium isn't actually the name of the power of Creation, just like atium isn't actually the name of Ati, the power of Ruin?  

 

Using atium and lerasium as an example, except for those who interacted with the Shards directly, even the people on Scadrial most knowledgable about the god metals and their significance to the central powers of their world still didn't know to call the source of those powers Ati and Leras.  Could be we have the name of the actual power/entity wrong, and Adonalsium is simply all the cosmere characters know to refer to it by, being the name of the part of it that interacted with the physical realm?

Edited May 25, 2013 by ROSHtafARian

[Khmauv]

I always had a random thought about the -ium suffix to Adonalsium - what if Adonalsium isn't actually the name of the power of Creation, just like atium isn't actually the name of Ati, the power of Ruin?  

 

Using atium and lerasium as an example, except for those who interacted with the Shards directly, even the people on Scadrial most knowledgable about the god metals and their significance to the central powers of their world still didn't know to call the source of those powers Ati and Leras.  Could be we have the name of the actual power/entity wrong, and Adonalsium is simply all the cosmere characters know to refer to it by, being the name of the part of it that interacted with the physical realm?

Do you suggest, perhaps, that Adonalsium is a physical object condensed out of the spiritual and is only a small part on Adonals (or Adonis?  )  that can be used as a key to access a small part of the true power of the universe?

[Chromium Compounder]

I always had a random thought about the -ium suffix to Adonalsium - what if Adonalsium isn't actually the name of the power of Creation, just like atium isn't actually the name of Ati, the power of Ruin?  

 

Using atium and lerasium as an example, except for those who interacted with the Shards directly, even the people on Scadrial most knowledgable about the god metals and their significance to the central powers of their world still didn't know to call the source of those powers Ati and Leras.  Could be we have the name of the actual power/entity wrong, and Adonalsium is simply all the cosmere characters know to refer to it by, being the name of the part of it that interacted with the physical realm?

 

I think you're confusing Shards and Shard holders.  Ati and Leras are the names of the holders of Ruin and Preservation, and the god metals are named after them.  This is similar to how Aona is the name of the holder of Devotion, with Aons and AonDor being named after her.  Similarly Skai was the name of the holder of Dominion and the Skaze are named after him.

 

Also, Shard holders aren't the source of any power, and according to Shardic Lens Theory, not even the Shards themselves are the source of power, but they act as lenses which channel the power of creation into the world.

 

EDIT:

I think Adonalsium is what they called the power of the original holder, and they called the original holder something based off Adoni, meaning Lord.

Edited May 25, 2013 by Windrunner
Please don't double post, simply edit your original post. Thanks!

[ROSHtafARian]

I think you're confusing Shards and Shard holders.  Ati and Leras are the names of the holders of Ruin and Preservation, and the god metals are named after them.  This is similar to how Aona is the name of the holder of Devotion, with Aons and AonDor being named after her.  Similarly Skai was the name of the holder of Dominion and the Skaze are named after him.

 

EDIT:

I think Adonalsium is what they called the power of the original holder, and they called the original holder something based off Adoni, meaning Lord.

 

I'm confused as to where you think I'm confused.  What you're saying is exactly what I was saying.

[Pechvarry]

To the original topic, allow me to give a completely different take:

Annotation: Elantris Title Page

Now, I'm a little embarrassed to admit this, but the city "Elantris" was actually originally named "Adonis." I'm not sure what I was thinking. Sometimes, when you're coming up with a lot of fantastical names, you create words that have a certain, unforeseen connotations or connections. In this case, I wasn't even thinking of the Greek myth. "Ado" was simply the Aon I chose to base the city's name around, and "Adonis" (Pronounced with a long "A" and a long "O") was the word that came out of that Aon.

Regrettably, I couldn't find "Ado" in the back of the book. Edited May 26, 2013 by Pechvarry

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Atium used to be called 'atrium' as well, too.

[Shardlet]

I'd wait for an actual Hebrew speaker to verify Khmauv's hunch about Adonalsium's etymology (I, too, doubt Google Translate's accuracy), but the idea of Adonalsium being some mixture of Cronus and Hades seems pretty intriguing to me. It suggests that Adonalsium might have been a god of Time and Death, perhaps not a very benevolent one, and that sounds like it could lead to some pretty interesting pre-Shattering stories.

 

If Hebrew based, the word meaning lord would be pronounced Adonai.  This word was typically used when reading scriptural texts in place of the name Yahweh in order to avoid excessive and careless repetition of the Name of God. 

 

Personally, I think it doesn't come from Adonai.  I think it comes from Adonis in Elysium.  I think chicks digged Adonalsium so that is why he took that name .

[Kurkistan]

Atium used to be called 'atrium' as well, too.

 

Fear the Mistborn burning Atrium! For he wields the awesome power of enabling public assembly in a well lit indoor space!

Edited May 27, 2013 by Kurkistan

[Khmauv]

•  

  • -You know what "atrium" means, Anthony? - No, sir.

  • -It's a courtyard oft-times surrounded by columns.

   

•  

[Pechvarry]

Err.. yeah. So the point is, I think if we could figure out what "Ado" means in Aonic terms, it would give us a very large glimpse into the meaning of Adonalsium, given that we know his first Cosmere book was originally intended to use Adonis with zero Greek ties.

Also, "Nalsi" makes me think of "Nalthis" but I think that's pushing it.

[Shardlet]

• -You know what "atrium" means, Anthony? - No, sir.

  • -It's a courtyard oft-times surrounded by columns.

 

Upvote for the Oscar quote!  One of the best comedies ever made that nobody knows about! 

[Leuthie]

Elantris, the name that replaced Adonis, is built on Ela, which means Focus, Center. So, we can assume that Ado was Brandon's first choice for Focus, Center. If he chose Ado because of its relationship to Adonalsium...