Yados Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 As far as I know, there are only a few things we know about the people on the other side of Scadrial. 1) The Lord Ruler knew about them and used them as a "control" when he did the things he did to the Final Empire. He didn't change them into Skaa or Noble. They don't, presumably, have any Lerasium running through their bloodlines/spiritual-dna bloodlines. Which means even if they have Allomancers, they're just Mistings and they always have been. 2) They have had 1000 years of technological advancement, largely unfettered by TLR. 3) As per the Reddit, AMA, they use Scardriel's magic differently. More "mechanically" I believe. Only knowing these things, I'm going to make a stab at how these people do whatever it is they do. Metal on Scadrial, doesn't have magic inside of it. It allows Allomancers to access Preservation's power, which then invests them directly. But if you had a population without any known Allomancers (or very, very few) and you gave them enough time, perhaps they could figure out a way to "burn" those metals without doing so internally. Sort of like splitting an atom, or the slower process you see in a nuclear power plant, but instead of the energy released coming from the thing being split or breaking down into energy, the molecular structure of the metal is serving a a microscopic "Aon," creating a small portal to Preservation's power, allowing these people to harvest Investiture. What could they do with this Investiture? I don't really know. Hemalurgy springs to mind, however. This would be a "clean" way of investing a Spike, allowing a population to experiment with Hemalurgy without the limitations (both moral and by the relative scarcity of allomancers) placed on Hemalurgy in the Final Empire. There's still an energy cost in Investing the Spike, which keeps the process entropic, but since the people on the other continent can't use the Investiture as an Allomancer would, it's less noticeable. And a population that either doesn't have or (or perhaps doesn't like) the idea of Allomancers, wouldn't necessarily use Spikes to grant Allomantic or Ferchemic ability (even if they could without using Hemalurgy to sever off a piece of a Spiritweb). They're more likely use them as TLR did to create things like Kandra, Inquisiters, and Koloss. Enhancements. Maybe just like Blessing allow Kandra to be stronger or smarter, these people could create sentient animals or physically/mentally augmented humans, or humans that would have a good enough constitution to withstand more conventional bionic enhancements for combat or space travel. This is my stab at it, based on what BS has said. I guess my main idea is just tat these people have found a way to access preservation's power through the metal without burning internally/biologically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroen Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 If it's true that technology advanced on another continent during TLR's reign, then it would stand to reason they would have modern technology. If so, why didn't they fly to the Final Empire? Surely with their advanced technology they could have taken over it, even if they didn't have any Allomancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbSombrero Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 I doubt conditions for flying through the uninhabitable zone would have been remotely favorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted May 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Who says they even know if there's anything at the other pole? If 90% of the planet is inhospitable to life, they presumably haven't sunk much of their research into long-range travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroen Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Exploring the world was always a big part in Eath's history. The people of Scadrial resemble us Earthlings pretty closely, so it would stand to reason they'd want to explore. And besides, if no one had explored, how do they even know 90% of the planet is inhospitable? Edited May 2, 2013 by kroen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Feesh Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 I would imagine that they have explored to a certain degree, but given that a certain distance from the equator is needed for life to be sustainable - not just pleasant, I'm talking flat out possible - it's entirely plausible that they either assume there is nothing on the other pole, or their technology is not yet advanced enough to even travel through the uninhabitable 90% of the planet. Considering that we only developed long-range flight as a means of travelling to distant places which we KNEW were there, what incentive do those on the southern continent have? And that's assuming their technology has even progressed as far as manned flight. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroen Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Just look at how much technology advanced in the 300 years after TLR's death; Electricity, cars, skyscrapers... The other continent had a 1000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted May 2, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Exploring the world was always a big part in Eath's history. The people of Scadrial resemble us Earthlings pretty closely, so it would stand to reason they'd want to explore. And besides, if no one had explored, how do they even know 90% of the planet is inhospitable? But it's been a part of Earth's history because our world is brimming with land and resources. There's profit. The parts that aren't full of things we like or use, like Antarctica or the bottom of the Ocean or the Moon, go pretty much unexplored. Just look at how much technology advanced in the 300 years after TLR's death; Electricity, cars, skyscrapers... The other continent had a 1000. They also have the Words of Founding, supernaturally fertile soil in the Elendel Valley, and a God who likes them and sometimes gives them guns if they ask nicely. Our world existed at a technological equilibrium for thousands of years. Who knows when these peoples hit an industrial revolution. Or even if they had the necessary resources to do so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pechvarry Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 If TLR didn't just destroy them when he had the chance, I'd assume there was something else keeping them from advancing to a point where they could challenge him. Brandon may have put himself in a difficult place. I like the theory. I'm personally hoping some sort of benign hemalurgy is discovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 TLR deliberately kept them around as a control group. Personally, I'm thinking they originally lived underground, or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted May 2, 2013 Report Share Posted May 2, 2013 Or TLR make a deal with them like he did the First Generation and let them live in exchange for them never leaving some hole he put them in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 Firstly, we have a Marsh PoV that states that to charge a spike, there needs to be contact with blood. Since this is pretty much Ruin's knowledge, then I doubt there's a way to charge a spike that doesn't at the very least require injuring someone. Otherwise, I don't mind the idea of them splitting metals or what have you to access the same powers. I'd be curious how such a thing would be controlled, or what some of the internal metals would do. I'm also curious because I thought WoB was that they used Feruchemy differently too. Presumably they still have full Feruchemists, since there is (again assuming) no Lerasium to dilute the bloodlines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroen Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 I think it should be possible to use syringes for Hemalurgy. What I mean is if you would normally have to spike someone in the heart to steal trait X, you could instead draw blood from the heart using a syringe and then dip the spike in it. This way, the trait is replicated, not lost, and no one dies. Just a theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 I think it should be possible to use syringes for Hemalurgy. What I mean is if you would normally have to spike someone in the heart to steal trait X, you could instead draw blood from the heart using a syringe and then dip the spike in it. This way, the trait is replicated, not lost, and no one dies. Just a theory. It is possible to non-lethally gain a hemalurgic spike but the host would still lose it, the syringe thing might work but considering how hemalurgy is affected by binding points I'd doubt it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kroen Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 It is possible to non-lethally gain a hemalurgic spike but the host would still lose it, the syringe thing might work but considering how hemalurgy is affected by binding points I'd doubt it. You get the blood from these binding points... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lance Alvein Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 When you use a Hemalurgic spike, you rip a part of the spiritweb out of the victim. Since applying the hemalurgic spike essentially "staples" the stolen spiritweb onto your own, I personally don't really see a syringe taking a bit of blood working for hemalurgy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voidus Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 You get the blood from these binding points... I don't see the blood being particularly different enough in each area to alter hemalurgic effects, I'd say its more to do with which organ or muscles the spike pierces, etc. which area of the spiritweb it rips away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 I think it should be possible to use syringes for Hemalurgy. What I mean is if you would normally have to spike someone in the heart to steal trait X, you could instead draw blood from the heart using a syringe and then dip the spike in it. This way, the trait is replicated, not lost, and no one dies. Just a theory. Except we have WoB that ripping a trait from someone's Spirit Web will leave them very dysfunctional. You might not kill someone, but you will definitely leave them worse for the wear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Feesh Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 If a tiny shard like the tip of a sword, or the piece of metal Marsh sticks in Penrod can be spikes, I think a syringe can be too. I still think the 'donor' would lose the trait however, as tearing off a chunk of the soul doesn't seem like it would have any other result Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilV Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 Does the size of a spike have any affect on Hemalurgy? (wiki scan didn't turn up anything) If so, I could see that being a downside of using a small spike like a syringe. It would stand to reason, as the amount of metal has a clear correlation to power in Allomancy and Feruchemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted May 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 Does the size of a spike have any affect on Hemalurgy? (wiki scan didn't turn up anything) If so, I could see that being a downside of using a small spike like a syringe. It would stand to reason, as the amount of metal has a clear correlation to power in Allomancy and Feruchemy. Well Vin's was just an earring and it gave her enough power to pierce copper clouds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senor Feesh Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 I'm not sure would have to check the book, but I seem to remember Marsh lamenting that the spike used in Penrod was too small to be of much use beyond giving Ruin a way in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yados Posted May 3, 2013 Author Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 I'm not sure would have to check the book, but I seem to remember Marsh lamenting that the spike used in Penrod was too small to be of much use beyond giving Ruin a way in Yeah, but Penrod's was so small he didn't even know it was there... I think. I'd also have to check the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom Monstrosity Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 (edited) Yeah, but Penrod's was so small he didn't even know it was there... I think. I'd also have to check the book. I think it was several inches long. Edited May 3, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windrunner Posted May 3, 2013 Report Share Posted May 3, 2013 They definitely knew it was there. The surgeons agreed that it was too risky to attempt to remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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