Concepts for future Mistborn books

[Lightflame]

Since the second Mistborn trilogy will be set in a modern style world, how do you think it will turn out? There's an Allomantic SWAT team, so what kind of villains do you think they'll face? Or maybe how Allomancy has copied our world? I mean, we already know that there will be a Mistborn serial killer.

- Misting Terrorists. People who just want to blow themselves up for a cause, with Allomancy. Maybe they walk into an airport and start shooting people with Coinshot powers. Maybe they have a bomb that they manipulate with Allomancy. Who knows?

- An Uber-Hazekiller. You thought the guys from the original trilogy were pesky? Wait until you see the guy with aluminum armour using his Steelrunning to charge you so that he can destroy your metals with his Leeching.

- Allomantic sports. Thugs could make football more brutal, and thus more appealing to the lowest common denominator. Alternately, you could do some crazy things with Coinshots and Lurchers. And don't forget the Soothers and Rioters to get the crowd into the game.

- Batman. Everybody loves Batman after all. I can imagine a Scadrial Two-Face who uses Allomancy to control the flip of his coin, and Bane's mask providing him with pewter.

- Amon and the Equalists. Okay, not the actual guys from The Legend of Korra (I haven't even seen the show), but a similar group of villains who hate class differences between the Allomancers/Feruchemists and the other people. And the leader guy could be some kind of super Leecher who can destroy Investiture. And Allomancer!Korra could yell, "I'm a Mistborn! You gotta deal with it."

- An iron Compounder villain guy. Make yourself heavy enough, and you could pull a mountain out of the ground or rip buildings apart. Throw in Coinshot powers with Hemalurgy, and you've got a guy who could level Elendel and walk away smirking.

- A cop who actually lives through his last day before retirement, then retires and lives a peaceful life. Because that would be glorious.

Your ideas?

Edited February 5, 2013 by Lightflame

[tecslicer]

Whenever I think about it I imagine that the three powers fade to the point that they are almost mythological. Then a group of geneticists uncovers a way to modify the DNA to create allomancy or Feruchemy. Then there is an arms race to create more and more powerful allomancers. Then we discover that there is a family of allomancers that, Like the Classical Terris, have kept their powers by interbreeding.

Or some archiologists uncover a cache of Larasium, and are like "What is it?" "I don't know. Try eating it... OH heartburn..." Maybe that would be to far of a stretch.

[Observer]

As far as I know, the only reason Allomancy is weakening is because Lerasium artificially enhanced it. It used to be still pretty strong, with, say, Pewter making you as strong as two men instead of ten. Lerasium gave it a boost, but slowly and surely it's fading back to a normal level.

A kandra baddy. It has to happen.

[tecslicer]

Yes, I suppose the powers would not weaken past a certain point, but the availability of sDNA would decrease over time. Especially since Allomancers tend toward the arts martial. In Classical Scadrial the arts of allomancy were very rare indeed, and in the books they state (I can't remember where) that the probability that someone would be born as an allomancer was waning. If nobody finds anymore Larazium in the interim this should continue.

Sure Harmony could add a little here and a little there, possibly to the point that everyone has some power. Harmony would like that equality, I think. Though, once they discover how to manipulate the sDNA and add powers everybody could get it. Then the third trilogy could be about a planet of Mistborn\Feruchemists that travel to the other shard worlds and steal all their other shardic powers.

"The Syringe held the key to ancient powers long forgotten. Vinnet plunged it into her arm. She ignored the now failure pain as the cold spread down her arm. A strange urge to eat the coins in her pocket seized her..."

[Voidus]

It should be pointed out that Hazekillers don't have allomancy or feruchemy I do like the full Aluminium armour idea though.

As for genetically modifying sDNA I doubt that it's possible simply with technology but Scadrial already has Hemalurgy for that, the problem is the price. As for Allomancy becoming more rare, Brandond has said the opposite IIRC, they're becoming a bit less powerful but more common.

[Inkthinker]

Hazekillers can be Allomantic Mistings, I'm almost certain there's examples of Coinshot and Lurcher Hazekillers, and I don't know why there wouldn't be others.

For instance, I recall a Lurcher armed with a large wooden shield that negated Coinshots by pulling their coins into his shield rather than whatever they were aimed at.

Edited February 6, 2013 by Inkthinker

[Eric]

I'm pretty sure that was with the team of Allomancers that went after Vin during the siege, not the Hazekillers. Books aren't handy, but someone able to reference can confirm.

[Voidus]

There are certainly Mistings trained to fight other mistings but Kelsier referred to Hazekillers as specifically non-allomancers trained to fight allomancers. I guess they could be feruchemists though.

Hazekillers werent Allomancers, but they were trained to fight Mistings and Mistborn.

[tecslicer]

As for Allomancy becoming more rare, Brandond has said the opposite IIRC, they're becoming a bit less powerful but more common.

Well Rust and Ruin! Who does he think he is? Thinks he can just write stuff and we'll lap it up :angry:/>

2nd try: "The Syringe held the key to ancient powers that every single person on the stupid planet has in one form or another. Vinnet plunged it into her arm. She ignored the now familure pain as the cold saline solution spread down her arm. So odd that simple Salt would have such an... "Ouch! she cried "The needle broke again?..."

Acupuncture! I want to see acupuncture interacting with hemalurgy. MAybe as part of one of the religions. a whole heap ton of slightly charged needles in the right bindpoints. Maybe some incense? Open the Chakrahs, fling some metal around, fiddle with emotions, chat with Harmony?

[Inkthinker]

There are certainly Mistings trained to fight other mistings but Kelsier referred to Hazekillers as specifically non-allomancers trained to fight allomancers. I guess they could be feruchemists though.

Hrmph. Harrumph, I say!

Are they a formal organization? I had "hazekillers" pegged as basically the equivalent of "special forces" in the various House guards or paramilitary Ministry personnel. People specifically trained to fight Mistings or Mistborn, and it didn't matter if you were a Misting yourself (in fact, it'd be damned useful).

If I'm setting up a team of fast-response forces to fight a specific threat, why wouldn't I include people who were best equipped to fight that threat on its own terms?

[Eric]

If I'm setting up a team of fast-response forces to fight a specific threat, why wouldn't I include people who were best equipped to fight that threat on its own terms?

Because that requires them to have metal, or become normal once their metals burn out. Better to train a guy who doesn't have the advantage to rely on in the first place than to have one who bets his life on it and loses. "Hazekillers weren't Allomancers, but they were trained to fight Mistings and Mistborn. There wouldn't be a single bit of metal on their bodies, and they would be ready for his tricks." M:TFE, 98. They explicitly try to either overwhelm threats with a quick burst of violence or delay the target until Allomancers can arrive to handle it directly. They are as much a group of containment specialists as they are combat specialists.

Heck, just eight of these guys held up Kelsier. Kelsier, who took on an Inquisitor and not only won, but was actually accorded a measure of respect in the fight by his opponent. That two of them (at least) survived is a testament to how well that works.

[Satsuoni]

Ok, I said it before and will say it again.

1. Rediscovery of Hemalurgy in all its glory:

a. Sonics the Hedgehogs: Like inquisitor, but with enough spikes to cover their whole backs. Steel compounders, amongst other things.

b. New uses of hemalurgy: grow a vat of human cancer cells, since they don't die as easily. throw in some Human Attribute spikes, some allomancy, etc.. fill it up with all manner of spikes, and see what comes out. Maybe enough Human Attributes will give that soup form. Let it loose on the street and enjoy .

2. Lerasium extraction. The way to concentrate mists into Lerasium/Atium/Sazedium was discovered! Large factories massproduce the stuff, draining Harmony dry and causing mass ecological disasters! Fun times ensue. Or more benign version, where extraction is limited, but enough to get a small bead for everyone. Then using it to fuel FTL ships, exploring other shardworlds.

Err.. maybe I'll think out something else.

[tecslicer]

Because that requires them to have metal,...

They explicitly try to either overwhelm threats with a quick burst of violence or delay the target until Allomancers can arrive to handle it directly.

Heck, just eight of these guys held up Kelsier. Kelsier, who took on an Inquisitor and not only won, but was actually accorded a measure of respect in the fight by his opponent. That two of them (at least) survived is a testament to how well that works.

In the future they can make metal vials out of aluminum. So then they would not have to wait for the real forces, and they would not have the disadvantage of metals to be stolen. Twinborn Hazekilling SWAT troops, maybe with a few charged acupuncture spikes or some of that condensed mist? Way better than dudes with hardwood canes. And since it seems allomancy will be coming out of beta in the second trilogy, it might become hard to find a muggle.

[dj26792]

One thing I've noticed in this thread that is wrong, people are talking about the lerasium improvement leaving, the lerasium blood is still in the population and making allomancy stronger, its just that as time goes on instead of making the few with that extra preservation mistborn, its making the many many people with the same amount of extra preservation spread amongst them all mistings, the lerasium is making more people mistings instead of some people mistborn and it will stay in society forever, making mistings much much more common than they ever would have been without the injection of lerasium into the population.

[Voidus]

That's not to say that Hazekillers are any better at confronting Mistings or Mistborn than other mistings or mistborn, just that the term hazekiller refers explicitly to non-allomancers who have been trained to fight allomancers. Since most Allomancers are trained to use their abilities on other allomancers there's not really any point in defining them as separate from ordinary mistings.

[Inkthinker]

Because that requires them to have metal, or become normal once their metals burn out. Better to train a guy who doesn't have the advantage to rely on in the first place than to have one who bets his life on it and loses. "Hazekillers weren't Allomancers, but they were trained to fight Mistings and Mistborn. There wouldn't be a single bit of metal on their bodies, and they would be ready for his tricks." M:TFE, 98. They explicitly try to either overwhelm threats with a quick burst of violence or delay the target until Allomancers can arrive to handle it directly. They are as much a group of containment specialists as they are combat specialists.

Heck, just eight of these guys held up Kelsier. Kelsier, who took on an Inquisitor and not only won, but was actually accorded a measure of respect in the fight by his opponent. That two of them (at least) survived is a testament to how well that works.

Hmmmm... nope, still doesn't work for me. I'd train Mistings and those without abilities in the same way, so that my Mistings who run out of juice are no less capable than the ones who never had it to begin with. And as trained fighters, they'd be no less at a disadvantage carrying metals than any Allomancer, and would probably take the same precautions (using quick-release ties on coin pouches, drinking vials before entering combat, etc).

Which is better: a highly-trained fighter with specific skills to battle Allomancers, or a highly-trained fighter with specific skills to battle Allomancers and an edge with their own abilities.

I'm not arguing that I'm right in terms of the canon, the text there isn't leaving a lot of room for wiggle. I'm just not sure why I'm wrong, and I guess I'll have to remember to ask either Brandon/Peter (if the latter doesn't pop up here on his own) or maybe Alex and the team at Crafty (who might have asked Brandon themselves, and have it written down somewhere).

[FlashWrogan]

Hmmmm... nope, still doesn't work for me. I'd train Mistings and those without abilities in the same way, so that my Mistings who run out of juice are no less capable than the ones who never had it to begin with. And as trained fighters, they'd be no less at a disadvantage carrying metals than any Allomancer, and would probably take the same precautions (using quick-release ties on coin pouches, drinking vials before entering combat, etc).

Which is better: a highly-trained fighter with specific skills to battle Allomancers, or a highly-trained fighter with specific skills to battle Allomancers and an edge with their own abilities.

I'm not arguing that I'm right in terms of the canon, the text there isn't leaving a lot of room for wiggle. I'm just not sure why I'm wrong, and I guess I'll have to remember to ask either Brandon/Peter (if the latter doesn't pop up here on his own) or maybe Alex and the team at Crafty (who might have asked Brandon themselves, and have it written down somewhere).

It comes down to numbers of allomancers you have available. As a great house lets say you have somewhere between 5 and 30 allomancers at your command. All of these are nobles, perhaps more are higher nobility. Some will be too important to spend any great amount of time on guard duty/combat. Essentially I don't have the allomantic manpower to keep them around and at the immediate ready all the time.

It is much more efficient and effective for me to train 50 of my regular guards as hazekillers and equip them as such so that they can be on guard in shifts and respond promptly to allomantic threats. Then I can send a guard to summon my allomancers while the hazekillers are buying time and my allomancers aren't tired out from being on guard duty all the time.

[Oudeis]

I'd train Mistings and those without abilities in the same way, so that my Mistings who run out of juice are no less capable than the ones who never had it to begin with.

It comes down to numbers of allomancers you have available.

Two thoughts:

First, Flash is right; I don't think the Noble Houses thought to themselves, "Let's ignore all of these Allomancers we're flush with; it's normal people we should really be training!" The plain fact is, they HAD to make do with normal guys, because the most Allomantically powerful House there is, willing to put every last Pewterarm and Coinshot on constant patrol, wouldn't have the manpower to guard their entire Keep. Hazekillers were made because they ran out of normal Allomancers, not because someone liked them better than Allomancers.

Second, I'm not sure I agree with your underlying assumption that training them to be as good as a hazekiller, is possible. Any given person can only train so many hours per day, so many days per week. While your Coinshot it out there learning how to leap from roof to roof without breaking his legs, improving aim at firing coins and reaction time at deflecting them, he's missing weapons practice, or strength training, or endurance runs, or just spending a long, boring night with an old experienced guard being taught how to watch. People don't have infinite time; you can't say you're going to give your Pewterarm all of the same training you're giving his non-Misting twin brother, and on top of that training him in pewterdragging, or how to get used to his enhanced balance, or how not to break his own equipment with his extra strength. What's the other brother doing during all the time you're giving the one guy extra training? However you get the extra time out of the Thug to train, you could get that same time out of the normal to train in mundane aspects, and then he'd be that much better than his brother.

It's also mental. You can sit there and tell your troops, "don't rely on your own Allomancy, fight every battle as though you've run out of metal," but if Allomancers themselves are rare, how much more rare will people who pay attention to that be? People are lazy. Sure, you'll get a few very dedicated people, and you'll be able to hammer it into a few others. But when they go days, weeks, months of training, of routine work, and never run out of metals, never have to fight as a "normal", do you really think that EVERYONE you train is going to be that dedicated? When you don't get to choose who you train, you HAVE to train the people who come to you with the right sgenetic background?

It's not that you'll get people who decide, "meh, my very survival isn't important enough to be worth effort," you're just going to meet people who simply don't believe you, who think they will be better served and have a greater chance to survive by relying on this awesome, amazing power they have, rather than some philosophical point they think you're trying to make.

Just my two cents.

[happyman]

I think the last two comment are right on the money.

I'd add that in the first trilogy, Hazekillers weren't much of an issue, but that's largely because as a whole, the viewpoint characters were abnormally powerful in their disciplines (full Mistborn, Savants, Inquisitor, not combat oriented). Hazekillers would be much more effective against a small squad of mistings. In the world of Alloy of Law, I could totally see Hazekillers still existing. They'd use some of Ranette's special weaponry and have a lot of specialized training.

[Millennium]

It's easy to forget just how few Allomancers there really are in a series that centers around them, but even among the nobility, Allomancers are supposed to be rare. Even the strongest noble Houses will have a limited number of them: too valuable to waste on guard duty, especially when some Mistings' abilities aren't all that useful in that context anyway.

Furthermore, all the other Houses have similar issues, and the scion of a noble House would know this. Most of the dangers they face are not Allomantic in nature, so it makes little sense to specialize all of their guards as Hazekillers. They really only need a squad or two, to put down one or two Allomancers (or, Lord Ruler forbid, a Mistborn) attack. Give the rest of the guards training and weapons aimed at more mundane threats: they'll be better-equipped to handle those.

Now, all of this said, I suspect that the Hazekillers will be more or less gone by the time of the next trilogy. If the people of Scadrial are using modern technology, then they've probably figured out the Hall–Heroult process of refining aluminum, turning it from one of the rarest and most expensive metals into something relatively common and cheap. The fighting tradition might still exist as a martial art, but with aluminum so readily available, that sort of thing would probably fall out of favor as a way of dealing with Allomancers.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

It's easy to forget just how few Allomancers there really are in a series that centers around them, but even among the nobility, Allomancers are supposed to be rare. Even the strongest noble Houses will have a limited number of them: too valuable to waste on guard duty, especially when some Mistings' abilities aren't all that useful in that context anyway.

It isn't that hard to keep allomancers on alert. They actually did that in canon.

The man in the distance burned tin, as did the four others Kelsier had sensed hiding

around Keep Tekiel. The five Tineyes formed a perimeter, watching the night, searching for intruders.

Kelsier smiled. The Great Houses were growing nervous.

Keeping five Tineyes on watch wouldn’t be that hard for a house like Tekiel, but the noblemen Allomancers would resent being forced into simple guard duty. And if there were five Tineyes on watch, chances were good that a number of Thugs, Coinshots, and Lurchers were on call as well. Luthadel was quietly in a state of alert.

Heck, there was more than one tineye in the thieving crew. Spook was just the best of them - there were, IIRC, two or three others that never got any screentime.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Phantom Monstrosity

[Kadrok]

To end the argument on whether Allomancers can be Hazekillers can I draw your attention to page 541 of the Mistborn Adventure Game Rulebook. In the description for seekers it reads:

"While only the most powerful Seekers can penetrate the copperclouds of Smokers, these guardians remain prized assets as hazekillers, Steel Ministry agents, and others tasked with hunting down rogue Mistings."

 

So we know that Seekers, at least, can be Hazekillers.

[Voidus]

To end the argument on whether Allomancers can be Hazekillers can I draw your attention to page 541 of the Mistborn Adventure Game Rulebook. In the description for seekers it reads:

"While only the most powerful Seekers can penetrate the copperclouds of Smokers, these guardians remain prized assets as hazekillers, Steel Ministry agents, and others tasked with hunting down rogue Mistings."

 

So we know that Seekers, at least, can be Hazekillers.

The MAG isn't absolute confirmation, and given the canon quote of Hazekillers not being allomancers I'd be somewhat suspicious of this without WoB.

[Kadrok]

Still, it makes sense doesn't it? Seekers only have the ability to sense Allomancy, nothing that really aids in combat. It's not like their training would introduce the kind of redundancies that, say, a Coinshot would have. And they would be very useful as Hazekillers. I could see them being one of a few exceptions to the general rule that Hazekillers are unpowered Elite Soldiers.

[Voidus]

Still, it makes sense doesn't it? Seekers only have the ability to sense Allomancy, nothing that really aids in combat. It's not like their training would introduce the kind of redundancies that, say, a Coinshot would have. And they would be very useful as Hazekillers. I could see them being one of a few exceptions to the general rule that Hazekillers are unpowered Elite Soldiers.

Oh I definitely agree that they could be trained to fight other mistings, it's really just semantics I'm arguing about, if the term 'hazekiller' refers exclusively to non-allomancers trained to fight that way, a Seeker even if trained in the fighting methods of Hazekillers might still be termed as a Seeker and not a Hazekiller.