Shardic Focus Theory

[Lightflame]

This could sound baseless, since I can't find the quote for it.

Apparently, if Odium went to Scadrial he wouldn't be able to see metal. This tells us a ridiculous amount of stuff.

Metal is the base of Scadrilin magic, and is the form the bodies of Preservation and Ruin take. Brandon once says that metal isn't where the powers of the Metallic Arts come from. Instead, it's a "focus" that connects the user to Preservation or Ruin.

As such, I believe that the magic system produced by Investiture is directly influenced by the Shardworld which is granted the Investiture.

So, for example, if Honor invested himself in Scadrial, he would create metal-based Surgebinding, or maybe an entirely different Metallic Art. Or if Ruin went to Nalthis, he might create a system based on taking Breath against the other person's will.

Of course, this leads to the question of why this is. Perhaps the focus has to do with the Cognitive aspect of Investiture on any given Shardworld: It views its power as coming from something, and so it does. (This would make Soulcasting incredibly broken.)

Regardless, if you accept this, we can hunt down focuses all day.

What do you think? Sorry if this has been brought up already.

EDIT: Oh yeah, this applies to their bodies as well.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Lightflame

[Kurkistan]

He actually didn't confirm it outright. He got flustered and RAFO'd.

You're theory makes sense, assuming that Odium would be blinded by metal on Scadrial. I think I might have seen something like this theory floating around already, but I can't recall where, so you might be original.

EDIT: Yeah, Aminar said it awhile back. Sorry

Edited December 17, 2012 by Kurkistan

[Windrunner]

Actually, if you want to get technical, I theorized this a bit before Animar, although I didn't go as much in depth into it. I just didn't bother making a topic for it, as it was related to the theory I'd been working on.

[lewstherin95]

I agree that the Shardworld determines the focus, as opposed to it being the Shard's choice. While I was looking through the Interview Database I ran across a question that Chaos asked that made me think. 

 

http://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=691

CHAOS

Is Endowment blind to the words spoken by Awakeners? Is he blind to art?

 

BRANDON SANDERSON

RAFO

 

 

 

While this was RAFO'ed, it made me think that the focus, rather than Commands or art, is color. Color is necessary for Awakening, and is used up in the process. Metal on Scadrial is consumed in the process of Burning it.  The fact that Shards on Scadrial are blind to the focus, leads me to wonder as to the true purpose of the Artisan's Script on Nalthis. 

 

Warbreaker pdf PG 49

 

The Hallandren artisan’s script was a specialized system of writing that wasn’t based on form, but on color. Each colored dot

represented a different sound in Hallandren’s language. Combined with

some double dots—one of each color—it created an alphabet that was a

nightmare for the colorblind.

 

By writing in this script, they have essentially blinded Endowment to all communication with the God King (and possibly other communications), since he cannot speak and is only supposed to know the Artisan's Script. One of the things I find amusing in this section is how Brandon almost comes out and says it, "an alphabet that was a nightmare for the colorblind."  This strongly implicates that, in my opinion, Endowment and all shards that come to Nalthis are blind to the Artisan's Script.

[Chaos]

Well, Brandon told me that Commands are indeed the focus, actually It was a long time ago, actually, before 17S existed. But, that question of mine that you linked was not blind in that way--I already knew Commands were its focus. The art part, however, was me shooting in the air. But Commands are definitely the focus for Awakening.

EDIT: It is possible that Shards are blind to a magic's Physical aspect, from the idea that every magic system has three parts. That need not be the foci, as Commands are more of a Cognitive foci in my opinion, and there's been long debate on how the focus for Surgebinding goes. But the Physical part of Awakening? Yeah, that seems like color to me.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Chaos

[Truthless]

By writing in this script, they have essentially blinded Endowment to all communication with the God King (and possibly other communications), since he cannot speak and is only supposed to know the Artisan's Script. One of the things I find amusing in this section is how Brandon almost comes out and says it, "an alphabet that was a nightmare for the colorblind."  This strongly implicates that, in my opinion, Endowment and all shards that come to Nalthis are blind to the Artisan's Script.

 

I love this. It's so elegant. And that's exactly the kind of clue Brandon would leave.

 

And what Chaos said is making we wonder - do we have a specific definition of what a focus is? We're assuming it's literal, I think - that it's the physical focus of the magic system. I have a half-formed theory, but I'm not sure...

 

Edit: So Chaos' edit basically answered one half of my question. Seems that a Shard is blind to the Physical component of their magic system. But what makes a focus? We know so little >.<

Edited March 26, 2013 by Truthless

[lewstherin95]

Huh, well that shoots down part of the theory. But as Chaos said, it wouldn't have to necessarily be the focus as such but just be the Physical part of Awakening.

I agree with Truthless, we probably need a better definition of focus in order to understand it better.

Has Brandon confirmed any other foci that I am not aware of?

[Chaos]

Now, don't necessarily take the Physical aspect of a magic thing too seriously; that is very theoretical in nature and very unconfirmed. Realmatics can be tricky like that. For example, what is the "Physical" part of AonDor? Not so easy to answer.

Though your quote about the colorblind thing is pretty awesome. Despite my warning, I totally buy that Endowment would be blind to color.

There aren't really any other confirmed foci that wouldn't have heard of already. Metal on Scadrial (obviously), Commands on Nalthis, "forms" on Sel--which is an odd word because kinda makes sense given the shapes, so you know exactly what it is referring to. Roshar is very much in the air. I think there's like eight pages of discussion on the Focuses on Roshar thread with no definitive conclusion, and I'm sure it's been heavily discussed since then, too.

[Krelian]

Well, "forms" for Sel, I think, isn't the focus, exactly. The intent focuses on the form there, IMO. The focus is kind of a merger of ideations in the Spiritual and Cognitive realms. If that makes any sense...

 

Had a rather awkward example from another topic;

 

http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3033-nature-of-forms-forgery/?p=50856

 

I think on Sel, it is indeed more complicated than other worlds. And that's likely why Brandon said by this point they're more aware of Realmatics than most other denizens of the Cosmere. 

 

As for Roshar, I think we need more information, I agree. But my initial impression is that intent, on a very personal, intrinsic level, is the most important thing there. Of course, I'm thinking of the KR orders here. I'd guess when we learn more about how Szeth does his Lashings, that idea may well go out the window.

[Chaos]

I think that's a bit too convoluted of an example (but then, that entire topic is very long and convoluted to the point of probably not being the most elegant). I mean, in that same conversation about Commands, he did say Aons are the focus for AonDor. I was saying "forms" because that's the only term I can think which generalizes the idea of Aons into more Selian things, like the Dakhor and soulstamps, if that makes sense. I can kind of see what you mean, I suppose, but it is rather complicated and I don't think people have said it super elegantly.

 

Also, what do you mean by "intent"? Because I seem to have a different definition from yours.

[Krelian]

I agree, the example I linked is awkward as hell, it was really only appropriate to other things going on in that topic. It makes sense in my head, but I know it's not exactly an illuminating analogy...

Yeah, Aons are the forms for Sel, but Elantrian intent is what births them. I guess when I say "intent" I mean conscious will from individuals who can tap Investiture? Ie, the decision to burn a metal, for allomancers? It seems trivial for some systems, but for AonDor I think it's an important distinction.

[Chaos]

Yeah, Aons are the forms for Sel, but Elantrian intent is what births them. I guess when I say "intent" I mean conscious will from individuals who can tap Investiture? Ie, the decision to burn a metal, for allomancers? It seems trivial for some systems, but for AonDor I think it's an important distinction.

 

Oh, that makes total sense. I (and others) sort of reserve the word "intent" as the word for the name of a Shard or Splinter. That defining trait of the force. Its driving intent, rather. You are welcome to use intent however you'd like, but just to not get it confusing, may I recommend "will" or willpower? Haha.

 

(My intent definition came about in the Principle of Intent: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/369-theory-the-principle-of-intent/ Though, I think it was used before me as well in that way.)

Edited March 27, 2013 by Chaos

[Senor Feesh]

Oh, that makes total sense. I (and others) sort of reserve the word "intent" as the word for the name of a Shard or Splinter. That defining trait of the force. Its driving intent, rather. You are welcome to use intent however you'd like, but just to not get it confusing, may I recommend "will" or willpower? Haha.

 

(My intent definition came about in the Principle of Intent: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/369-theory-the-principle-of-intent/ Though, I think it was used before me as well in that way.)

 

 

I personally separate them with the use of capitalisation - intent vs Intent not the most obvious I'll grant you, but it works for me

[Kurkistan]

I think that's a bit too convoluted of an example (but then, that entire topic is very long and convoluted to the point of probably not being the most elegant).

I resemble that remark! It is most definitely not elegant, not a simple "probably".

[Krelian]

I resemble that remark! It is most definitely not elegant, not a simple "probably".

 

 

Hey now. It's very elegant, if you happen to have the exact same background in physics and topology I do, and happen to think of both in terms of fantasy magics anyway! Oh, and live in my head. That too...

 

Haha, I thought it'd be a visualizable example of what some of the topic was discussing anyway. I apparently failed rather badly....

[Kurkistan]

^Sorry, I was saying that the topic as a whole (and my OP in particular) was inelegant, not your post.