Cayden Posted October 24, 2012 Report Share Posted October 24, 2012 I've seen a few people speculate that the Highstorms are of Honor or Odium. But I dont see how this fits for several reasons. Rainwater which comes from a Highstorm is more nutritious than normal water. And then theres Stormlight which comes from Highstorms. To me this reaks of Cultivation more than Honor or Odium. From everything we've seen so far is that the Highstorms have been becoming more and more powerful and destructive, which is most likely Odium's influence on the Highstorms, but that still does not stop the Cultivational aspect of the Highstorms, But could it be this which aids in triggering not only the Near Death visions, but the Highstorm Visions, and could very well have a great deal to do with the upsurge of spren consciousness and surgebinding. I wonder how long ago Jasnah began to soulcast, or Elohkar started getting so paronoid about the symbol headed and twisted creatures, could it be at the same time which Syl started following Kaladin? The first hint about Syl I could see in Kaladins past was just as he prepared for the battle inwhich he was about to face the enemy shardbearer. a Spren stuck something to him, cant remember exactly what as my book is currently on loan. But if thats the case it shows the gradual progression inwchich the spren gains in consciousness. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 I've seen a few people speculate that the Highstorms are of Honor or Odium. But I dont see how this fits for several reasons. Rainwater which comes from a Highstorm is more nutritious than normal water. And then theres Stormlight which comes from Highstorms. To me this reaks of Cultivation more than Honor or Odium. From everything we've seen so far is that the Highstorms have been becoming more and more powerful and destructive, which is most likely Odium's influence on the Highstorms, but that still does not stop the Cultivational aspect of the Highstorms, But could it be this which aids in triggering not only the Near Death visions, but the Highstorm Visions, and could very well have a great deal to do with the upsurge of spren consciousness and surgebinding. I wonder how long ago Jasnah began to soulcast, or Elohkar started getting so paronoid about the symbol headed and twisted creatures, could it be at the same time which Syl started following Kaladin? The first hint about Syl I could see in Kaladins past was just as he prepared for the battle inwhich he was about to face the enemy shardbearer. a Spren stuck something to him, cant remember exactly what as my book is currently on loan. But if thats the case it shows the gradual progression inwchich the spren gains in consciousness. I like this; I've decided that highstorms aren't of Honor, mainly because one of the chapter start-things says that the city (Urithu?) was built in the west, closer to Honor, capitol H. Why would Honor's power be in the west, and he would send highstorms from the east? I think highstorms might also be Odium looking for Honor's power, but that's just me. This theory is well-written. +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dionysus Posted October 25, 2012 Report Share Posted October 25, 2012 (edited) The reason in my mind that Highstorms are tied to Honor is that they bring stormlight, which as far as book one goes has a strong connection to Honor. Mainly in that we know the KR used stormlight and Kaladin uses stormlight. Other people are more Cosmere knowledgable than I, but I believe so far in Brandon's books all sources of magic power have been tied to a shard. Other properties of the HIghstorms do seem tied to cultivation, particularly the fertilizer water. Edited October 25, 2012 by dionysus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king of nowhere Posted October 27, 2012 Report Share Posted October 27, 2012 I also got the impression that storrms are of cultivation. nature is adapted to them, and they are a source of crem, without which life would not be possible except on bacterial scale outside of shinovar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted October 29, 2012 Report Share Posted October 29, 2012 (edited) I've always prefered the tripple shard storm theory. Storms give crem and water for life, (Cultivation), Stormlight for Honor's magic (Honor), and they destroy a lot of stuff (Odium). If Odium pulled out, we'd probably get milder rains that just gave Stormlight and crem. Thinking of this, I wonder what's up with the Weeping? Edited October 29, 2012 by Observer 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straff Venture Posted October 30, 2012 Report Share Posted October 30, 2012 I've always prefered the tripple shard storm theory. Storms give crem and water for life, (Cultivation), Stormlight for Honor's magic (Honor), and they destroy a lot of stuff (Odium). If Odium pulled out, we'd probably get milder rains that just gave Stormlight and crem. Thinking of this, I wonder what's up with the Weeping? This seems the most solid theory to me. The series is said to have 30 or more magic systems which will likely be derived from all three of the shards. The series is called the Stormlight Archive, implying the significance of Highstorms will be present in almost all areas of the books. Plus, the nature of the highstorm as already mentioned holds the traits of each shard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 Way I see it, the Highstorms were originally Cultivation's stuff. Being a crem-bearing storm primarily, it makes sense. Honor hopped on the badwagon, and only later did Odium come along and make them nastyevil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
happyman Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 The way I see it, the Highstorms have to have been going on for a really long time. I mean, the ecosystem is essentially evolved to make use of them/survive them, and in some impressive ways. In the real world, at least, that takes a hecka long time. Of course, with Cultivation floating around, maybe it could be sped up, but even so, I doubt it would be that fast. In fact, if it weren't for the very obvious "supernatural" effects the storms cause, I'd almost suspect they occurred naturally, due to odd planetary effects. With all that said, clearly there is magic involved. I'm just saying that it must have been involved for a very long time indeed. Whatever the causes of the Highstorms, they go a long ways back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith Posted October 31, 2012 Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 The way I see it, the Highstorms have to have been going on for a really long time. I mean, the ecosystem is essentially evolved to make use of them/survive them, and in some impressive ways. In the real world, at least, that takes a hecka long time. Of course, with Cultivation floating around, maybe it could be sped up, but even so, I doubt it would be that fast. In fact, if it weren't for the very obvious "supernatural" effects the storms cause, I'd almost suspect they occurred naturally, due to odd planetary effects. With all that said, clearly there is magic involved. I'm just saying that it must have been involved for a very long time indeed. Whatever the causes of the Highstorms, they go a long ways back. They've probably been going on since before the desolations; Dalinar likely would have commented on the plants in his vision if not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cayden Posted October 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2012 It all depends on whether the planet was bare before Cultivation found it or not. or were there lifeforms there first... If the planet was bare, then its likely all connected if not, some might be totally natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Observer Posted November 1, 2012 Report Share Posted November 1, 2012 Humans are not native to Roshar, and their mythology regarding the Tranquiline Halls is at least partially correct in that sense. They got kicked out far enough back that they've pretty much forgotten all historical events of the time, and the shards of Honor and Cultivation followed them to Roshar, or moved them. It's been long enough for the ecology to have developed, and no, I don't think Roshar could sustain life previous to the shardic intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RenegadeShroom Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 The highstorms don't seem very related to Odium, in my eyes. The destruction they cause seems rather minor, avoided easily by hiding in stone shelters, and they don't seem so odious to me either. I can accept them being of Honour and Cultivation, but Odium seems a bit of a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lDanielHolm Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 The highstorms don't seem very related to Odium, in my eyes. The destruction they cause seems rather minor, avoided easily by hiding in stone shelters, and they don't seem so odious to me either. I can accept them being of Honour and Cultivation, but Odium seems a bit of a stretch. That is circular logic -- the destruction seems minor because the entire ecosystem has evolved around the highstorms. That doesn't make them any less dangerous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethling Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 We seem to be assuming that the storms are a product of the shards. The way I see it, the storms are basically high-powered hurricanes. Those occur naturally. It would make more sense to say that the shards may have worked with something already existing. I haven't seen it cited in a while, but we have a quote floating around somewhere with Sanderson basically stating that the magical systems are a product of the planet itself, with the shards effectively providing a gateway. Going with that, stormlight was already around and probably used, but the shards may have refined its uses. Cultivation could have worked with the storms to bump up their ecological value, and Odium upped their power to cause more destruction. If you take the hurricane view as I do, their increasing power can be a natural occurence as well. There are cycles along the Gulf Coast where you may go years without a powerful storm, but then have a monster. There was a large time gap between Besty and Camille and Andrew and Katrina. Probably around 2020, there will be another monster storm (I am not counting Sandy because the last I heard she was only a cat 1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 We seem to be assuming that the storms are a product of the shards. The way I see it, the storms are basically high-powered hurricanes. Those occur naturally. It would make more sense to say that the shards may have worked with something already existing. I haven't seen it cited in a while, but we have a quote floating around somewhere with Sanderson basically stating that the magical systems are a product of the planet itself, with the shards effectively providing a gateway. Going with that, stormlight was already around and probably used, but the shards may have refined its uses. Cultivation could have worked with the storms to bump up their ecological value, and Odium upped their power to cause more destruction. If you take the hurricane view as I do, their increasing power can be a natural occurence as well. There are cycles along the Gulf Coast where you may go years without a powerful storm, but then have a monster. There was a large time gap between Besty and Camille and Andrew and Katrina. Probably around 2020, there will be another monster storm (I am not counting Sandy because the last I heard she was only a cat 1). This makes sense, however, it appears all the storms are getting more powerful, instead of just one. I also doubt that the stormwardens would be as worried if it had happened before. That, combined with the fact that you can predict highstorms fairly accurately, makes me think there is something not normal about them. Personally, I think the highstorms have been on Roshar from, if not very close to the beginning. There's probably something shardish about them (stormlight...), I just don't quite know what yet. Honor may have something to do with it; Honor's visions came to Dalinar only in highstorms, but the storms go from East to West; West (according to one of the pre-chapter things) is "closest to Honor". I think Cultivation has a valid point with the crem, and Odium probably has something to do with the new power of the storms. Wait. I just thought of something. What if Odium is behind stormlight? IIRC both Kaladin and Szeth describe stormlight (whilst inside of them) as the fury of the storm; not the other parts, the fury... (/random theory) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethling Posted November 3, 2012 Report Share Posted November 3, 2012 It really depends on how much knowledge the stormwardens have kept. Even today, it is hard to track stuff back further than a hundred years. Many records for weather before that just no longer exist, even if they did to begin with. Going back even 500 years is nearly impossible unless you get extremely lucky. If the Spanish Armada had not been thrown about, there probably would not be much if any writen evidence of the storm system that blew through, but because it did, it is one of the most famous storm systems in western history. Shortly after its founding, New Orleans was wiped out by a strong hurricane. We only know about that because the local governor wrote about it in his correspondence back home. There is no telling what type of weather patterns were around even shortly before the first Europeans came to the new world. We do know that there was a great period of decreased temperatures in Europe during the middle ages, but what would have happened if a fire had burned through the place where the records were kept? I think everyone probably knows the story about what happened around D-Day, but if not for that one event, would it have even made it to being written down? Knowledge can be lost fairly easily even today. Try to get some military records from WWII. There is a good chance you will be told they do not exist due to accidents at the warehouse where they were being kept. Basically, the wardens would have had to keep VERY in depth records, and the records would have had to survive for thousands of years without being lost, destroyed, or just plain misinterpreted. Even natural events can be predicted with some accuracy by primitive cultures. We even have a Hurricane season. The rythmic cycle of the storms may seem unnatural, but there may very well be a natural explanation, or the shardic power could be used to create an unnatural cycle with a perfectly natural phenonmenon. Crem may be harder to just explain away, but strong winds could throw up dust which is then caught in the storm's updraft. Throw in the mechanics involved with hail, and you would get a very moist soil-like substance finding its way to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'm a fan of the three Shard explanation, but I tend to think Odium isn't one of the Shards. I don't believe he was native to Roshar, and that in fact there is another Shard on Roshar that is a contributing factor in the highstorms. Keep in mind that besides crem, the storms bring vast amounts of water to a planet with next to no topsoil or other ways to contain said water. Without the hightstorms, water on Roshar might become an extremely rare commodity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashWrogan Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 This makes sense, however, it appears all the storms are getting more powerful, instead of just one. I also doubt that the stormwardens would be as worried if it had happened before. That, combined with the fact that you can predict highstorms fairly accurately, makes me think there is something not normal about them. Personally, I think the highstorms have been on Roshar from, if not very close to the beginning. There's probably something shardish about them (stormlight...), I just don't quite know what yet. Honor may have something to do with it; Honor's visions came to Dalinar only in highstorms, but the storms go from East to West; West (according to one of the pre-chapter things) is "closest to Honor". I think Cultivation has a valid point with the crem, and Odium probably has something to do with the new power of the storms. Wait. I just thought of something. What if Odium is behind stormlight? IIRC both Kaladin and Szeth describe stormlight (whilst inside of them) as the fury of the storm; not the other parts, the fury... (/random theory) I'm ahead of with that theory. There are a number of things in the book hinting at Odium's affiliation witht he highstorms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashWrogan Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 This makes sense, however, it appears all the storms are getting more powerful, instead of just one. I also doubt that the stormwardens would be as worried if it had happened before. That, combined with the fact that you can predict highstorms fairly accurately, makes me think there is something not normal about them. Personally, I think the highstorms have been on Roshar from, if not very close to the beginning. There's probably something shardish about them (stormlight...), I just don't quite know what yet. Honor may have something to do with it; Honor's visions came to Dalinar only in highstorms, but the storms go from East to West; West (according to one of the pre-chapter things) is "closest to Honor". I think Cultivation has a valid point with the crem, and Odium probably has something to do with the new power of the storms. Wait. I just thought of something. What if Odium is behind stormlight? IIRC both Kaladin and Szeth describe stormlight (whilst inside of them) as the fury of the storm; not the other parts, the fury... (/random theory) Already ahead of you with that theory. Though I didn't look at how stormlight was described. There are a number of things in the book hinting at Odium's connection to the storms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethling Posted November 4, 2012 Report Share Posted November 4, 2012 I wouldn't read too much in to the "fury" references. How else would you describe something like the power of a super-hurricane? Even parts of the Bible talk about God's fury. Not too many would classify those as references to a god of hate and destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CabbageHead Posted November 19, 2012 Report Share Posted November 19, 2012 I wouldn't read too much in to the "fury" references. How else would you describe something like the power of a super-hurricane? Even parts of the Bible talk about God's fury. Not too many would classify those as references to a god of hate and destruction. On top of that, if you look at the various links about this site to works discussing historical notions of honour, there is definitely an element of fury in there, in that any member of a society not conforming to the preconcieved ideal was ostracised, or at the least severely shamed, until they could redeem themselves. They were all very male notions of honour, embodying strength, ferocity, and impartiality (or at least a measure of equality, for those man enough to be part of the in-group), all things that a storm is. I agree with the theory that the storms were originally natural in origin, and that all the Shards are throwing bits of their own influence into them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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