Dalinar has already tapped into Radiant abilities?

[DariusJenai]

So, I was doing my second or third readthrough, and I noticed this.  For reference, these are all from the battle with the chasmfiend in chapter 13.

No! he thought, getting a gauntleted hand beneath himself and heaving, using the momentum of his slide to throw himself upright. As the sky spun, something seemed to right, as if the Plate itself knew which way was up. He landed

[Andrew the Great]

My only question is why don't we see Dalinar's gemstones cracking in his Shardplate like we do with Elhokar? For that matter, why would Elhokar soulcast during that battle? If he were closer, I'd say Dallinar took the Stormlight from them, but you'd think people would notice that.....

However, we never see Dalinar sucking Stormlight out of anything else. Also, I have to say, I'd really love for at least one member of the Kholin family to not be a magic user (and preferably not Renarin, since he already kind of got the shaft the most of all the Kholins).

Good catch, though. I just hope you're wrong.

[Kykeon]

Yeaaa, noticed that too

Well, in the prologue we have the same "actual magic happens and gets dismissed as a trick of the light by onlookers"-situation, so why not again?

I'd like to be believe that it was like he perceived it and the armour itself temporarily got some of its previous power back.

Edited October 16, 2012 by Kykeon

[Munin]

My only question is why don't we see Dalinar's gemstones cracking in his Shardplate like we do with Elhokar? For that matter, why would Elhokar soulcast during that battle? If he were closer, I'd say Dallinar took the Stormlight from them, but you'd think people would notice that.....

However, we never see Dalinar sucking Stormlight out of anything else. Also, I have to say, I'd really love for at least one member of the Kholin family to not be a magic user (and preferably not Renarin, since he already kind of got the shaft the most of all the Kholins).

Good catch, though. I just hope you're wrong.

Well, for all we know, the magic of Dalinar's order doesn't use Stormlight the same way, and therefore wouldn't crack gems.

[Emeralis00]

I agree with Munin, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an order similar to what Dalinar did.  Kinda like a personal enhancement magic?

[Munin]

I agree with Munin, I wouldn't be surprised if there was an order similar to what Dalinar did.  Kinda like a personal enhancement magic?

*cough* Stonesinew *cough*

[DariusJenai]

Well, for all we know, the magic of Dalinar's order doesn't use Stormlight the same way, and therefore wouldn't crack gems.

Also, I can't imagine that the Radiants drew their power from the gems in their armor.  First, Szeth had to physically remove Gavilar's armor to get at the gems to draw from them.  So, being inside the Plate probably prevents them from being drained. (This doesn't necessarily mean that someone inside the Plate wouldn't be able to draw on them, which brings us to number 2)

Second, since the strength of the armor itself seems to be based on the gemstones, it wouldn't make much tactical sense for the Radiants to intentionally weaken their armor to fuel their abilities.  You'd get what is effectively a temporary boost in power for a reduction in the damage your armor could take.  Bad idea in normal circumstances, probably a fairly fatal one when fighting Voidbringers and Thunderclasts.

[Andrew the Great]

Right. But right at first, as seen with Kaladin in particular, Radiants aren't aware that they're drawing Stormlight. Hence the hypothesis that Elhokar cracked the gems in his own plate - he was unknowingly using them to fuel soulcasting.

And since Szeth specifically mentions that his use of Lashings interferes with the gems that powered the plate, we have more to point toward the fact that it does in fact cause problems.

And while I agree that Stormlight doesn't necessarily have to fuel all of the magic systems, I have to wonder, if not Stormlight, then what? I'd think that Brandon would be much more likely to keep it consistent, especially for systems that are as interconnected and related as those used by the radiants.

[happyman]

This is another one of those tricky Brandon situations, isn't it? 

(/Extremely minor mistborn spoiler) It reminds me oh so much of trying to understand Hemalurgy before MB3 came out.  (/end spoiler)

I would have to say that from the textual evidence, and on my reread of the fight with the Chasmfiend, Dalinar was definitely using one of the powers of one of the orders of the Knight's Radiant.  It matches all the important points, including powers beyond even a normal Shardholder, glowing armor, and perhaps most importantly, Dalinar's perception that something had changed.  Stonesinew seems like an extremely good candidate.

(Another Mistborn reference, not really a spoiler, but kinda)  May I go so far as to say that description of this fight reminds me of nothing so much as a Thug?  Stronger, faster, more durable, generally a better fighter?  Which. given Shardplate, is saying something.

As for how it is powered:  Hard to say.  Given what Dalinar saw the Knights Radiant doing in his visions, though, I would have to say that there must be a way of getting power that doesn't involve draining the armor.  Stormlight seems like the most likely source, by a long shot, but we just don't know enough.

Again, I'm having flashbacks to earlier discussions about Brandon's magic systems.  Which means it will all make sense when we learn enough.  Argh!

[Emeralis00]

what is stonesinew?

the only reference I can find of it is Talinal's title.

[Munin]

what is stonesinew?

the only reference I can find of it is Talinal's title.

Yep, that's the reference I was making.

[Kykeon]

what is stonesinew?

the only reference I can find of it is Talinal's title.

It sounds like something from Dungeons % Dragons. *shrug*

[Munin]

Well, I'm assuming that "Stonesinew" means that Talanel is especially tough and strong. Kalak notes that he's good at winning unwinnable battles, which would hold with that.

Dalinar does similarly "impossible" things... like, say, stopping a Chasmfiend.

[Andrew the Great]

...Which happens to not be impossible, as evidenced by the fact that they're hunting chasmfiends in the first place.....

I'm with happyman on this one. All of the magic systems we've seen make me think of mistborn. The only one that's really got me stumped is Soulcasting. I can't figure out how it relates to any of Brandon's previous magic systems.

I agree that there have to be ways to power Radiant abilities without using the gems in the Shardplate (or alternately, the Radiant powering the Shardplate as opposed to the gems). I just don't think it likely that a new magic system user would be able to do so, since everything we've seen so far indicates that they just grab stormlight from wherever it's available.

[Zas678]

I think that it will be slightly different.

This is the first time in the epigraph symbols we see the face associated with Chach. Chach is associated with Brave/Obedience. It seems like these faces (which are likely Heralds) often represent either their magic system or characters.

      For example, the first time we see Syl is also the first time we see Vev (Loving/Healing). The first time we see Jasnah is also the first time we see Palah (Learning/Giving). The Herald at the end (Taln) also has the face associated with Tanut.

[Andrew the Great]

Oh, I could totally see Dalinar's Radiant powers being slightly different in terms of usage. I just think they'll follow the same general rules.

[Munin]

...Which happens to not be impossible, as evidenced by the fact that they're hunting chasmfiends in the first place.....

I'm referencing the part where Dalinar catches the Chasmfiend's falling arm.

[Andrew the Great]

Got it. Though I don't know that they ever mention that that's "impossible." Just that it's really really hard. Point taken, though.

[happyman]

Actually, I'm basing part of my assumptions off of something Brandon said about how in the Cosmere, getting the same type of effect will have generally similar behavior.  The fact that many of his enhanced humans are stronger, tougher, heal faster, have faster reflexes, etc., suggest that if one of the Knights Radiant abilities are general physical enhancement, it will be very similar to

(spoilers for other books, esp. Elantris)

Thugs, Returned, full-strength Elantrians, Dahkor monks, etc.  All these enhancements also have variations between them, however, so such similarities don't bug me much.

This also seems entirely appropriate for Dalinar.  It fits his observed abilities, his personality, and all of the meager evidence which we do have.

[DariusJenai]

I'm with happyman on this one. All of the magic systems we've seen make me think of mistborn. The only one that's really got me stumped is Soulcasting. I can't figure out how it relates to any of Brandon's previous magic systems.

Think Elantris.  The Elantrians were said to be able to feed all of Arelon by turning rocks into grain by using Aons.

[Andrew the Great]

And yet again, it's reiterated to me how badly I need to reread Elantris. Curses.