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Radiants and Spren *Spoilers*


Brendan

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This came to me whilst driving home today and I wanted to write it down before I forgot it, so I decided I may as well share it here to see what others thought.

So we have a collection of people from WoK who I believe are becoming Radiants and we know that Syl has a fair bit to do with Kaladin becoming closer to being a Radiant.

I believe all of the following have shown tendencies towards becoming radiants:

Shallan; sees truthspren in various ways, can soulcast, we have PoV, no spren (just visions of truthspren), has a shardblade

Jasnah; can soulcast, no PoV, no indication of spren, no shardblade

Elhokar; talks about seeing beings similar to truthspren (I know this is grasping not fact), no PoV, no indication of spren, has a shardblade

Dalinar; visions, we have PoV and no spren yet he acts (arguably) with more honour than Kaladin, has a shardblade (until now)

Szeth; surgebinds, we have PoV and no spren, he has a shardblade.

Kaladin; surgebinds, interacts with Syl, no shardblade

We also know that Syl has an aversion to shardblades.

So we know that those we have PoV from that only Kaladin has a Spren attached to him however each of the others has a shard blade, leading to the possibility of the spren being scared away by the shardblades.

So what if the shardblades scare off the spren, making it so that those with shardblades donnot interact with their spren and this would stunt their growth as a radiant. This could mean that now that Dalinar has given up his shardblade that we will see a spren come to him in book two.

I could not find any indication that Jasnah has a spren attached to her, however, we see from Kaladin's PoV that people try to conceal it if such a thing does happen. If it comes out that she does have an association with a spren, or that Dalinar now starts to then this would greatly support my (rather thin) theory.

That could then also have something to do with the Knight Radiants abandoning their shards, taking them back into contact with their spren?

Sorry if something like this theory already exists somewhere, or if any of the above is based on incorrect facts, my mind was just flowing and I wanted to get it down before I forgot.

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Yeah, she killed her father and took his. I don't think she ever summoned it, but the ten heartbeat issue is brought up several times.

Well, the king does report seeing stuff that closely resembles what Shallan and Jasnah see, so that pretty much is a given.

You forgot Adolin. Other than his father and Kaladin, he has probably acted more honorably than anyone, even if he did initially chafe at the restrictions.

Also, I would not at all be surprised if Kaladins father was a nascent Radiant. Just something about him seems to be like what we have seen..

Edited by Aethling
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This came to me whilst driving home today and I wanted to write it down before I forgot it, so I decided I may as well share it here to see what others thought.

So we have a collection of people from WoK who I believe are becoming Radiants and we know that Syl has a fair bit to do with Kaladin becoming closer to being a Radiant.

I believe all of the following have shown tendencies towards becoming radiants:

Shallan; sees truthspren in various ways, can soulcast, we have PoV, no spren (just visions of truthspren), has a shardblade

Jasnah; can soulcast, no PoV, no indication of spren, no shardblade

Elhokar; talks about seeing beings similar to truthspren (I know this is grasping not fact), no PoV, no indication of spren, has a shardblade

Dalinar; visions, we have PoV and no spren yet he acts (arguably) with more honour than Kaladin, has a shardblade (until now)

Szeth; surgebinds, we have PoV and no spren, he has a shardblade.

Kaladin; surgebinds, interacts with Syl, no shardblade

We also know that Syl has an aversion to shardblades.

So we know that those we have PoV from that only Kaladin has a Spren attached to him however each of the others has a shard blade, leading to the possibility of the spren being scared away by the shardblades.

So what if the shardblades scare off the spren, making it so that those with shardblades donnot interact with their spren and this would stunt their growth as a radiant. This could mean that now that Dalinar has given up his shardblade that we will see a spren come to him in book two.

I could not find any indication that Jasnah has a spren attached to her, however, we see from Kaladin's PoV that people try to conceal it if such a thing does happen. If it comes out that she does have an association with a spren, or that Dalinar now starts to then this would greatly support my (rather thin) theory.

That could then also have something to do with the Knight Radiants abandoning their shards, taking them back into contact with their spren?

Sorry if something like this theory already exists somewhere, or if any of the above is based on incorrect facts, my mind was just flowing and I wanted to get it down before I forgot.

Only problem is that all full Radiants once carried Shards, so the Shards couldn't have scared off the spren.

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There's a running series of theories about Shardblades being somehow tainted, but no one brought up Shallan not seeing Spren normally in connection with it. Of course, both she and Elhokar have a different kind of Spren from Kaladin. Dalinar doesn't see Spren in mirrors, but he actually does hear a mystery voice that might be a Spren in battle.

Szeth apparently isn't actually a Radiant, with one of the prevailing theories being him having Jezerin's Honorblade.

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Well, there has not been mention that Spren only show themselves when they want to do so. The others might have spren hanging around, but they just might not have made themselves visible yet. Syl did not make herselve immediately visible to Kaladin in her true form either.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hmm... you are basically quoting almost every single major character. I can live with Kaladin and Dalinar and maybe Adolin, but I think it would be a very boring story if all of them became radiants.

I don't think having Shardblade/plate is necessary in order to become a 'Radiant'. Like it's been said, they are probably tainted, so there is a good reason for the Radiants giving them up, and maybe there was some secret power acting over Kaladin not wanting to take the Shards and Syl disliking them, and Dalinar feeling the urge to be rid of them.

I believe it's possible that Syl is kind of like the soul of a lost radiant, wandering about looking for someone worthy enough to carry the legacy of her powers, until she found Kaladin.

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I agree with you that the blade and plate are probably not part of becoming a Radiant. Though, the plate and blade do seem to enhance their effectiveness as a Radiant. Do soldiers need guns? No, but it makes them much, much more effective in battle.

Interesting thought about Syl being a lost spirit. That will take some mega-convincing though. I can't think of a single piece of evidence concerning that.

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I'm not saying that Shardblades are part of becoming radiants, I'm saying they are halting their growth towards becoming radiants.

Also apparently I'm wrong about Szeth, his powers are not radiant powers, 'something else' is hapening to him.

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Hmm... you are basically quoting almost every single major character. I can live with Kaladin and Dalinar and maybe Adolin, but I think it would be a very boring story if all of them became radiants.

I don't think having Shardblade/plate is necessary in order to become a 'Radiant'. Like it's been said, they are probably tainted, so there is a good reason for the Radiants giving them up, and maybe there was some secret power acting over Kaladin not wanting to take the Shards and Syl disliking them, and Dalinar feeling the urge to be rid of them.

I believe it's possible that Syl is kind of like the soul of a lost radiant, wandering about looking for someone worthy enough to carry the legacy of her powers, until she found Kaladin.

Actually, I think Blade and Plate are necessary to become a Radiant, just like the sword and armor were necessary to be a knight on Earth.

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Actually, I think Blade and Plate are necessary to become a Radiant, just like the sword and armor were necessary to be a knight on Earth.

They were? I know that at least most knights back in the day had sword and armor, but I don't think it was necessary. And even if it was necessary, it isn't anymore.

When thinking of a radiant we think of a surgebinder with full shards, not somebody like Szeth (him getting his powers from somehow else is only applicable if radiant powers are somehow connected to their shards, which I don't believe is so because Kaladin's on the path of radiant-ness and he uses his powers without shards [way too long parenthesis]). When thinking of a knight we think of the "knight in shining armor", not the Beetles, even though both are images of knights.

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When thinking of a radiant we think of a surgebinder with full shards, not somebody like Szeth (him getting his powers from somehow else is only applicable if radiant powers are somehow connected to their shards, which I don't believe is so because Kaladin's on the path of radiant-ness and he uses his powers without shards [way too long parenthesis]).

You're missing my point. You don't need Shards to be a Surgebinder, but you need them to be a Radiant. They're symbols of rank, just like a mistcloak.

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Fine... you win :D (by just barely :P)

Unless one magically becomes encased in Shardplate at the moment they become a Radiant (which is still up in the air, since we haven't seen anyone become radiant), I can easily see a Radiant that doesn't have Shards. Just like Knights in our world don't magically become encased in steel the moment they're knighted. ...Well, I guess if part of becoming Radiant involves going out and magically obtaining your own special Shards...

ooooo. New Theory.

A surgbinder that's taken 4/5 of the Radiant oaths goes to Cusicesh The Protector. Cusicesh takes "something away from them" and with that "4/5 radiant something" it makes that person's Shards and whispers the 5th oath (depending on their order, obviously) to them (or unlocks the part of their brain that holds the oath). As they take the oath the Shards appear.

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Fine... you win :D (by just barely :P)

Unless one magically becomes encased in Shardplate at the moment they become a Radiant (which is still up in the air, since we haven't seen anyone become radiant), I can easily see a Radiant that doesn't have Shards. Just like Knights in our world don't magically become encased in steel the moment they're knighted.

Actually, a knight got his sword and armor at the very moment he became a knight, since the giving of the sword was the centerpoint of the knighting ritual. I like the idea that speaking the Fifth Oath summons the new Radiant's Shards for the first time, though i don't think Cusisech needs to have anything to do with it.

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Actually, a knight got his sword and armor at the very moment he became a knight, since the giving of the sword was the centerpoint of the knighting ritual. I like the idea that speaking the Fifth Oath summons the new Radiant's Shards for the first time, though i don't think Cusisech needs to have anything to do with it.

Everybody who watches Cusicesh feels some sort of energy taken from them. Why would Cusicesh take energy if not to made Shards with it? ;)

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Hmm... you are basically quoting almost every single major character. I can live with Kaladin and Dalinar and maybe Adolin, but I think it would be a very boring story if all of them became radiants.

We've seen only a small part of the world so far and there are quite a few books to go. I think he has plenty of room to add a plethora of interesting groups and main characters within those groups.

However:

From reading the interviews with Brandon, I got the feeling this series was more about the struggles of the Heralds. If the Heralds created the Radiant Orders, it might follow that the new Radiants will be used to describe the Heralds and their exploits. So, it could be that the reason he has used the characters he has is because they are destined to be Radiants.

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