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Eyes are important


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"The windows into a person's mind and spirit" - Shallan, p118 of the hardback.

We have the "Double Eye of the Almighty", we have people's eyes burning out when cut with a Shardblade, we have lighteyes vs darkeyes, and we even have changeable eye colour. Clearly, in this series in particular, eyes are important.

I quickly put together a list of eye descriptions I could find. This is *not* intended to be exhaustive.

Gavilar: pale green (p33)

Kaladin: dark brown (p39)

Shallan: light blue eyes (p65)

Jasnah: pale violet (p83)

Taravangian: pale green (p84)

Gaz: brown (p100)

Kabsal: blue (p121)

Szeth: dark green (normally), pale - almost glowing - sapphire when wielding a Blade (p178)

Elhokar: light yellow (p188)

Adolin: blue (p227)

Laral: bright pale green (245)

Female Radiant: light tan (p303)

Male Radiant: bright blue, almost white (305)

Navani: light violet (317)

Talenel'Elin: dark brown (p1001)

Can't seem to find Dalinar's or Renarin's described but would be easy to miss in such a big book.

I haven't checked, but I dont remember Brandon so persistently describing eye colour in past works. Surely light vs dark is important in Vorin culture, but maybe hue has some importance too - while hair colour is inherited and eye lightness/darkness is inherited, it seems the eye hue may not be (at least, I haven't spotted any family patterns yet).

That Szeth's eye colour changes from green to blue upon summoning a Blade is very suspicious, though whether we will be able to make any predictions about characters simply based on the hue of the eyes I dont know - I dont necessarily think that eye hue helps indicate which order of Knight Radiant you might be in for example, but it might mean something else.

No big theories here: just decided to pull together some data, since I couldn't find a similar gathering - though eyes have been discussed before, I haven't seen a thread dedicated to it.

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I always figured that having lighteyes lead was tied to the fact that Shardblades lightened the eyes of the Nights Radiant who were leaders in their time. So even after the Radiants left the people were more comfortable following someone with lighteyes similar to

Mistborn WoA Spoilers

Dockson putting noblemen in charge of the battalion during the siege of Luthadel because the skaa saw them as leaders still.

It's interesting to note that having lighteyes is actually a genetic mutation so if Roshar worked in any way like Earth does, at one point there would have been no lighteyes, just people with brown eyes. On Earth a genetic mutation changed this but on Roshar the Knights Radiant could have changed this. If holding a Shardblade changes your eyecolor and DNA permanently then the lighteyes could all be descended from the Knights.

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Dunny: dark violet (ch 46, p 813). According to Sigzil, violet is characteristically Veden and not Alethi. Interesting that Navani and her daughter Jasnah have violet eyes, but her son Elhokar's are yellow. Shallan, who is veden, has blue eyes.

Some of the lighteyes may be descended from the Radiants. Others certainly descended from those who picked up the weapons after the Recreance.

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I always figured that having lighteyes lead was tied to the fact that Shardblades lightened the eyes of the Nights Radiant who were leaders in their time. So even after the Radiants left the people were more comfortable following someone with lighteyes

The importance of light vs dark eyes is well established in the book already, so I didn't think it was worth mentioning. I suspect however, that there is additional importance to eyes beyond this, possibly including hue.

Szeth's eyes temporarily change from dark green to pale blue when wielding a Shardblade - I believe Brandon has confirmed that Szeth isn't becoming a Knight Radiant but is using similar powers in a different way (or something like that). It could be that his Shardblade is different too - if Kaladin had picked up that Shardblade when he had a chance, or any Shardblade for that matter, would his eyes just become a lighter shade of brown permanently, or would they change in both hue and lightness? From the sounds of things, a darkeyes who takes up a Shardblade permanently becomes a lighteyes, rather than temporarily, and this change is inherited too - unlike Szeth.

Eyes simply becoming a lighter shade is one thing - just add more light. But changing the hue seems to be something else. In which case, wouldn't there be some system underlying the hue change? Does the hue depend upon the person or the Shardblade, for example?

PS I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Parshendi have entirely black eyes or something - I wonder what happens to their eye colour when they pick up a Shardblade.

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The importance of light vs dark eyes is well established in the book already, so I didn't think it was worth mentioning. I suspect however, that there is additional importance to eyes beyond this, possibly including hue.

Szeth's eyes temporarily change from dark green to pale blue when wielding a Shardblade - I believe Brandon has confirmed that Szeth isn't becoming a Knight Radiant but is using similar powers in a different way (or something like that). It could be that his Shardblade is different too - if Kaladin had picked up that Shardblade when he had a chance, or any Shardblade for that matter, would his eyes just become a lighter shade of brown permanently, or would they change in both hue and lightness? From the sounds of things, a darkeyes who takes up a Shardblade permanently becomes a lighteyes, rather than temporarily, and this change is inherited too - unlike Szeth.

Eyes simply becoming a lighter shade is one thing - just add more light. But changing the hue seems to be something else. In which case, wouldn't there be some system underlying the hue change? Does the hue depend upon the person or the Shardblade, for example?

PS I seem to remember reading somewhere that the Parshendi have entirely black eyes or something - I wonder what happens to their eye colour when they pick up a Shardblade.

Szeth also says that the change is "a unique effect of his particular weapon". I know several people have theorized that Szeth's Blade is not an ordinary Shardblade, so it's possible that his is the only one to do that.

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Szeth also says that the change is "a unique effect of his particular weapon". I know several people have theorized that Szeth's Blade is not an ordinary Shardblade, so it's possible that his is the only one to do that.

Yup, though given how Brandon does his magic systems I would very much expect there to be some general-purpose underlying reason for the green to blue change. That is, if we knew why it happened we would understand a bit more about how magic works on Roshar.

Though this did give me two further thoughts:

1) Was Szeth pre-disposed to the Surges he uses or were they forced upon him as part of whatever made him Truthless? I get the feeling that it's the latter but I guess we'll have to wait and see.

2) Are all Shardblades the same or did different orders of Knight Radiants have Shardblades with slightly different properties (and I dont mean just the physical design)?

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I am on board with the eyes being more significant than we realize, but not necessarily the hue. For example, Kaladin's eyes have not changed and we have seen him from sprenless all the way through the 2nd "rank" of windrunner. Light eyes, in Humans at least, mean someone in your ancestry has held a shard blade.

More interesting to me is how the lighteyes effect is inherited. To use modern terms, holding a shardblade is affecting people on the genetic level such that the changes are passed on in perpetuity. Then again, it might be a fallacy to think of the Cosmere in terms of earthly science. (Always a fine line in fantasy novels, as author's pick and choose what parts of reality they keep and what parts they discard.)

It is clear to me though that holding a shardblade somehow fundamentally changes a person, such that the change is inherited. It is also clear that this change is not necessarily a good thing, as I look at Syl as being an excellent moral compass so far in understanding the morality of the Stormlight Archives. If she doesn't like something it is safe to say it is not inherently good.(Though it would not be suprising for Syl to be a flawed moral compass though, but for now there is no evidence to the contrary. Honor is not intrinsically linked to goodness either.)

Now how do the shardblades change the person for all generations? Perhaps we see this in the Thrill. Perhaps the shardblades initiate a link to whichever Shard is responsible for the thrill? Has any darkeyes so far talked about the Thrill? I don't recall, but almost all the protagonists are light eyes so that is not statistically signficant.

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In all of Brandons books there are different methods to accessing the magic. there usually seems to be three. I would say that the radiants as a whole would counts a 1 way in general. even tho they have different powers. Then you have Seths way, whatever that is. then you have another way possibly shallans offering?

Anyway I think the eyes MUST be of great importance. Notice that almost none seem to be exactly the same.

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I am on board with the eyes being more significant than we realize, but not necessarily the hue. For example, Kaladin's eyes have not changed and we have seen him from sprenless all the way through the 2nd "rank" of windrunner. Light eyes, in Humans at least, mean someone in your ancestry has held a shard blade.

In the Feverstone Keep flashback thing, I remember Dalinar remarking to himself that Alethkar and Jah Keved had something like 50 Shardblades between them and there was estimated to be another 50 in the rest of the world... but he was seeing 200 in front of him in the flashback. Or something like that. I guess it's easy to see why the "Vorin Kingdoms" dominate culture - they're so strong militarily too. In a might-makes-right type of world, I guess it's natural that Shardholders and their descendants would tend to dominate. In places without Shardblades, I guess that's why there's generally other ways of selecting leaders.

It is clear to me though that holding a shardblade somehow fundamentally changes a person, such that the change is inherited. It is also clear that this change is not necessarily a good thing, as I look at Syl as being an excellent moral compass so far in understanding the morality of the Stormlight Archives. If she doesn't like something it is safe to say it is not inherently good.(Though it would not be suprising for Syl to be a flawed moral compass though, but for now there is no evidence to the contrary. Honor is not intrinsically linked to goodness either.)

Now how do the shardblades change the person for all generations? Perhaps we see this in the Thrill. Perhaps the shardblades initiate a link to whichever Shard is responsible for the thrill? Has any darkeyes so far talked about the Thrill? I don't recall, but almost all the protagonists are light eyes so that is not statistically signficant.

Oh, that's a nice idea. I had tended to think of "The Thrill" as mostly being cultural... but, if it's something that's built into Shardblades then with the cultural dominance of Shardholders it could easily make it become "the norm".

Actually, here's an idea I just had, based on the above: It seems Honor had some kind of "pact" or bargain with Odium. Maybe Odium officially provided the the Shardblades (in a kind of "to give you a sporting chance" gesture, at least publicly) but privately gave the Blades some subtle features to corrode the souls/genes of the holders to further his long-term goals. That is, the (possible) evil within Shardblades is not humans making use of Odium's magic systems by mistake but something Odium provided directly - and the situation the humans were in was so dire, they couldn't afford to refuse them. In which case, you can easily see why the Radiants would want to be rid of them as soon as possible. Doesn't explain why they got rid of the armour too though - maybe Honor created the Shardplates to help neutralise the evil in the Blades, making it better to give up both rather than just the Blades?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Actually, here's an idea I just had, based on the above: It seems Honor had some kind of "pact" or bargain with Odium. Maybe Odium officially provided the the Shardblades (in a kind of "to give you a sporting chance" gesture, at least publicly) but privately gave the Blades some subtle features to corrode the souls/genes of the holders to further his long-term goals. That is, the (possible) evil within Shardblades is not humans making use of Odium's magic systems by mistake but something Odium provided directly - and the situation the humans were in was so dire, they couldn't afford to refuse them. In which case, you can easily see why the Radiants would want to be rid of them as soon as possible. Doesn't explain why they got rid of the armour too though - maybe Honor created the Shardplates to help neutralise the evil in the Blades, making it better to give up both rather than just the Blades?

Well, okay, so here's the thing. Let's pretend, for a minute, that Vorinism has some validity to it, and that there is a war for heaven.

If Shardblades kill the soul itself, wouldn't that kind of...I don't know...be like being balefired, the soul destroyed, unwoven from the afterlife, etc. etc.? I know nothing has been directly said, but there's a lot of attention paid to the fact the soul is actually cut by Shardblades, between the "eyes are the gateway to the soul," to the literal "it cuts the soul," I distinctly remember at least four or five times that point was made.

I think you might be onto something, something ingenious. Odium seems a lot like Ruin, but worse, and look how conniving Ruin was. He would give people power to manipulate them. Why wouldn't Odium, then, trick Honor and give men weapons that would prevent them from assisting Honor effectively.

I struggle seeing Honor creating blades that sever the soul.

The blades, in my mind, HAVE to relate back to Odium in some way. A guy running around splintering things left and right seems like the type to deliver a weapon that severs souls. Additionally, Syl's reaction rings in my head. I was 100% sure after this re-read I just finished yesterday that the blades have to relate to Odium. After all, Syl literally hisses when she hears Odium's name. Wouldn't she identify something of Odium as simply being "wrong?"

I mean, I know Sanderson is a very creative author, but let's compare Kaladin and Kelsier as characters for a minute. Both are incredibly powerful, natural leaders with a seething hatred for the aristocracy. They both have magical powers and are particularly gifted in combat, especially combat that involves manipulating their positioning as well as their natural strength. They also become "leaders" and develop religious followings (though not quite as potent with Kaladin, there's still plenty of usage of the word "devotion" regarding him). Even superficially, they do both start with the letter K and feature L and I.

Is it that unreasonable to then expect Sanderson to again employ a "blessing" that turns out to be a curse? Why wouldn't I expect Shardblades to work almost exactly like hemalurgy, except, worse, since it's Odium?

And lastly, I think the Knights gave up both the blade and plate because they were "quitting the game" so to speak.

Sorry for the slight tangent.

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Well, okay, so here's the thing. Let's pretend, for a minute, that Vorinism has some validity to it, and that there is a war for heaven.

If Shardblades kill the soul itself, wouldn't that kind of...I don't know...be like being balefired, the soul destroyed, unwoven from the afterlife, etc. etc.? I know nothing has been directly said, but there's a lot of attention paid to the fact the soul is actually cut by Shardblades, between the "eyes are the gateway to the soul," to the literal "it cuts the soul," I distinctly remember at least four or five times that point was made.

I think you might be onto something, something ingenious. Odium seems a lot like Ruin, but worse, and look how conniving Ruin was. He would give people power to manipulate them. Why wouldn't Odium, then, trick Honor and give men weapons that would prevent them from assisting Honor effectively.

I struggle seeing Honor creating blades that sever the soul.

The blades, in my mind, HAVE to relate back to Odium in some way. A guy running around splintering things left and right seems like the type to deliver a weapon that severs souls. Additionally, Syl's reaction rings in my head. I was 100% sure after this re-read I just finished yesterday that the blades have to relate to Odium. After all, Syl literally hisses when she hears Odium's name. Wouldn't she identify something of Odium as simply being "wrong?"

I mean, I know Sanderson is a very creative author, but let's compare Kaladin and Kelsier as characters for a minute. Both are incredibly powerful, natural leaders with a seething hatred for the aristocracy. They both have magical powers and are particularly gifted in combat, especially combat that involves manipulating their positioning as well as their natural strength. They also become "leaders" and develop religious followings (though not quite as potent with Kaladin, there's still plenty of usage of the word "devotion" regarding him). Even superficially, they do both start with the letter K and feature L and I.

Is it that unreasonable to then expect Sanderson to again employ a "blessing" that turns out to be a curse? Why wouldn't I expect Shardblades to work almost exactly like hemalurgy, except, worse, since it's Odium?

And lastly, I think the Knights gave up both the blade and plate because they were "quitting the game" so to speak.

Sorry for the slight tangent.

Ooh, I have an idea. What if Honor created the Shardblades by trapping some of Odium's power, the way Preservation did with Ruin? Furthermore, let's assume that as long as the Oathpact holds, the bit of Odium in the blades is inert and can't corrupt the user. But at the Recreance, the bit of Odium was released to twist the wielder. So the Blades are of Odium, but Honor intended them to be "safe".

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Oh, it is almost a given that there is a reason for the colors. Wit/Hoid says something about it being a good reason in one of his later scenes, and we know there he has been around the block a time or two. Page 998 of the hard cover, when thinking about the different forms of government/leaders, he states. "In this case, it just happened to be a good one."

That itself is fairly telling.

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I always pictured the Thrill is more of a battle lust. Dalinar specifically states, "The Thrill-the enjoyment and longing for war-was part of what drove the Alethi as a people." That seems to indicate that is is part of the racial makeup of the Alethi. That fits in neatly with what is said later about the Alethi being the vanguard or defenders.

Either way, battle lust is something that is not that uncommon in sword and sorcery fantasy. Chereks have it as part of their racial makeup. Elend is essentially on an Atium fueled battle lust at the end. Percy uses it all the time. Matt does it at least once. Kvothe calls the wind twice while in what could be considered a battle rage, though it is not as extreme. Richard does it throughout the series both with and without his sword. Eragon does it at least once that I can remember. Josh has minor battle rages in the Alchemyst series. Those are just from the bookshelf that I can see. Even modern soldiers have been known to experience battle lusts or rages.

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When talking about the Thrill, the authors are just taking a known phenonenom and carrying it over into their books.

Also, Kaladin does go into a battle rage very early in the book when he is fighting the boy in his hometown. That is the major reason he wanted to become a soldier for so long, just to be able to feel the rush again.

To get back to the original topic, there has to be a reason that Hoid talks about eye color being a good reason for leadership divisions. Even in our world, there are noted differences color perception between people with blue eyes and brown. Blues are supposedly better at picking out variations of color and have better natural night vision.

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