Elwynn

Isasik Shulin

78 posts in this topic

edit 4/26/13

Updated for new information, might make it easier to read in future. And Peter kindly pointing in the right direction.

 

Okay…I just cut about 2000 words from this because it was getting…out of hand. And also because I find it hard to believe that no one has discussed this before. So let’s get to it.

All pages are hardback edition.

You will need:
Maps:
-of pg. 12-13 map of modern day Roshar ( not silver kingdoms epoch) Thanks to Aiken, you'll need that map too!
-of pg. 20 map of Alethkar
-of pg. 182 map of Shattered Plains
-of pg. 274 map of Alethi Warcamps
-of pg. 454 map of Kharbranth
-of Shadesmar (back cover/back of last page)
And a bright light/lamp

So grab your hardbacks or open some new tabs…

Look at the map of modern day Roshar, pg. 12-13.
-find Kharbranth. Just to remember where it is.
-take a look at the compass (with (N)North, (St)Stormward, (S)South, (L)Leeward) and memorize the symbol in the middle.
-take a look at Isasik Shulin’s stamp/royal seal (bottom right corner), just for future reference

Now…

Look at map of Alethkar, pg. 20
-find the Shattered Plains

Look at map of Shattered Plains, pg. 182
-find the dueling arena (towards the top left if looking at it so writing is readable)…look VERY carefully, get out that lamp if you have to

Look at map of Alethi Warcamps, pg. 274
-Look at left column of glyphpairs, right in the center (if words are readable)

Look at map of Kharbranth pg. 454
-find the Palanaeum (top-most building)…look carefully
-find the ship in the lower left corner, look at the sails

And…

Look at the map of Shadesmar (back cover…back of last page)
-find where Kharbranth would be…
-now look a little Stormward

See it? It’s the same symbol! And it’s everywhere!

Well…it could be the symbol for Kharbranth, though on the Shadesmar map it is so far off from the correct position that it’s hard for me to imagine without it being a misprint.
On the map of modern day Roshar, the symbol seems like it would be located in between the ‘F’ in Frostlands and the last ‘H’ in Kharbranth.

Not to mention the symbol being all over the drawings of the Shattered Plains.

It has to be the symbol for the Royal High Cartographer, Isasik Shulin. wink.gif

He’s connected to every drawing except the pg. 454 one. Though the one on pg. 274 is a tenuous connection. But it seems like he is the creator of the ‘in world’ stained glass window of Shadesmar.

So…

Look at modern map of Roshar
-find Isasik Shulin’s royal seal (lower right hand corner)
-get out that light
- find ‘1167’, now look THROUGH it. In between the ‘K’ in Isasik, and ‘S’ in Shulin you can see the claw from the same symbol I’m referencing in this thread.


Take note: The royal cartographer seal appears to be the same as the symbols in the upper left hand corner (on modern map of Roshar), but if you look closely…those are just simplified, three-prong representations of the symbol inside N, St, S, L.

But if it’s the royal cartographer seal…that doesn’t explain the Palanaeum having the symbol overlaid upon it. Not to mention the pg. 454 picture is surrounded by the 3rd symbol from the back cover.

Oh, if Isasik is an in-world Ghostblood that could explain a few things. Though the ship and sail still has me stumped.


So that gives us…


Well I have no freaking clue, really. But this all seems so cool. I’m very confused though.

Opinions?

Also, most of what I cut out of this involves a weird clockwise tilt that several of the symbols take on. But my wife thinks I’m seeing things, so I’ll leave the theorizing to everyone.

Edited by Elwynn
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It's not the symbol for the Royal High Cartographer Isasik Shulin.

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That's.... surprisingly cryptic.

Here, I'm going to post the images that you said, so everyone can see what you mean:

If you look closely, they actually aren't the exact same. They're the same style, which seems to be different than the Radiant and the Surge style.

Oh! I found matches! The compass symbol is also on the page of the stylized Warcamps. See? It's the sixth symbol (going from the top).

EDIT- I mean... Look! They're all matches! ;)

In a sec, I'm going to link a bunch of images to this post.

post-16-0-71973200-1330111326_thumb.png- From the map of Alethkar

post-16-0-33677100-1330111337_thumb.png- From the map of Kharbranth

post-16-0-29488700-1330111623_thumb.png- From the map of Kharbranth

post-16-0-02378600-1330111349_thumb.png- From the map of Kharbranth

post-16-0-54872900-1330111365_thumb.png- From the map of Roshar

post-16-0-99003700-1330111386_thumb.png- From the Stylized map of the Shattered Plains

post-16-0-51300800-1330111408_thumb.png- From the Shadesmar map

post-16-0-29931200-1330111469_thumb.png- From the Shadesmar map

post-16-0-91216300-1330111492_thumb.png- From the Shattered Plains map

If anyone wants to see the original pictures, they're on Isaac's website

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@Peter: Thank you very much for the nudge in the right direction!

Here, I'm going to post the images that you said, so everyone can see what you mean:

That would be very much appreciated!

If you look closely, they actually aren't the exact same. They're the same style, which seems to be different than the Radiant and the Surge style.

I'm not sure what you're talking about. Radiants and Surges? I'm talking about the compass symbol, and it's the EXACT same one on every page I listed in OP. I even explained how to find them.

Oh! I found matches! The compass symbol is also on the page of the stylized Warcamps. See? It's the sixth symbol (going from the top).

Found matches? They're all matches. The compass symbol is on every single one of those pages. And yes, this particular one would be the one on pg. 274 that I listed in the OP.

Sorry, just very excited about this and not really sure what you've read from the original post.

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Yep! You're right. I didn't realize some of them were rotated slightly. They're all matches. I'll edit my original post.

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Yep! You're right. I didn't realize some of them were rotated slightly. They're all matches. I'll edit my original post.

No worries. I was actually afraid I had stupidly overlooked something obvious. Was feeling really dumb there for a minute. :lol:

Thank you so much for posting the pics...they look great.

The whole clockwise tilt thing has me confounded...not sure where to go from there. The symbol on Shadesmar map seems the most important right off the bat.

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Weren't we told all the pictures and maps in WoK are in-world maps?

It seems this symbol is the common denominator in them. Perhaps someone has left behind some clues for future Rosharians to find for a specific purpose. "X" marks the spot.

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Weren't we told all the pictures and maps in WoK are in-world maps?

Most definitely. In fact, most have writing at the bottom with in world descriptions i.e. 'towards the bottom is stormward.'

It seems this symbol is the common denominator in them. Perhaps someone has left behind some clues for future Rosharians to find for a specific purpose. "X" marks the spot.

Presumably, yes. Personally I think it's a symbol representing a secret order. Most likely Ghostbloods at this point. But mostly because of limited knowledge of any other secret sects beyond something like Teft's parents.

Currently searching for ways to link it to the Vanrial...since they value The Way of Kings so highly, sing the dawnchant, etc.

The problem is linking it to the currently unknown location the symbol overlays on the Shadesmar map. Thought it was the Nightwatcher, but the Valley is over by Emul...

Just really feel like I'm missing something obvious linking it all.

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Hey! I just found the same symbol in the Roshar map of the Silver Kingdoms epoch! It is in the botton left corner, just over the Stormfather face!

Here is the image:

silverkingdomsepochsymb.jpg

Looks like the symbol you found, don't it? By the positioning in this map, it seems implied that it is related to the Stormfather in some way. Maybe it is the piece that was missing? :o

Man, this topic is awesome in so many levels!

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That is awesome! Nice find Aiken!

Along with the pics on Isaac's site which show the symbol behind the sword associated with the Windrunner's...well I think you're right.

Definitely seems like it refers to Stormfather/Jezrien/Windrunners!

So that explains the Shattered Plains symbol. And the Silver Kingdoms Epoch symbol.

Dueling arena? Dalinar or Adolin maybe...

Kharbranth? I am soooo tempted to say Szeth, but we know he's not on the track for KR.

And Shadesmar symbol? I'm going to laugh so hard if that's where Jezrien has been hiding all this time.

Again, great job Aiken!

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Whoever it is knows of Shadesmar, which is incredibly significant. So we know that whatever the sign is, it can't belong to a completely normal mortal (well, that would be obvious from the silver kingdoms-today time difference)

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Whoever it is knows of Shadesmar, which is incredibly significant. So we know that whatever the sign is, it can't belong to a completely normal mortal (well, that would be obvious from the silver kingdoms-today time difference)

But the people on Roshar know about Shadesmar...

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Yeah, SOM1else is right. The Shadesmar map in the back is a real stained glass window in Roshar. Do you remember those ardents in the Reshi Isles? They mentioned Shadesmar as well. I personally believe that it's because Honor brought people from his Shardworld (the Tranquiline Halls) to Roshar through Shadesmar. I read a quote somewhere that Brandon confirmed that humans and horses are not native to Roshar. I wish I could find it, I'll have to check the database.

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I've got something else- I made sure to copy lots of miscelaneous symbols, and I noticed another one that appears in a couple places.

On the Kharbranth Map, in the corners, there's these little scarab things. They're also on the symbol page next to Shadesmar.post-16-0-08321000-1330132867_thumb.pngpost-16-0-24415000-1330132878_thumb.png

Oh, and this one is a smaller detail, but the ring around the compass-symbol on the map is also the border for the Radiant page.

post-16-0-73834500-1330132953_thumb.png post-16-0-54872900-1330111365_thumb.png

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wow, what an amazing little trail brandon's left for us. i'm stunned by his level of detail.

as to who it might represent, i think we can rule out the ghostbloods. doesn't jasnah describe the symbol of the ghostsbloods, found on kabsals wrist, at the end of the book?

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On the Kharbranth Map, in the corners, there's these little scarab things. They're also on the symbol page next to Shadesmar.

If we correspond the symbols next to Shadesmar to the ones in the front for Radiant orders, this is the symbol for Ruby-spark-fire-the soul-brave/obedient. How I got there: Simple color matching based on the color of the symbols and the related gemstones.

9 1

8 10 2

7 5 3

6 4

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I just noticed something else- The symbols in the Radiant circle and the circle next to the Shadesmar page are related. The surges are the same- just flipped at the symmetric point (more or less). Even better- they're in the same place for both of them.

Let me show you some examples:

post-16-0-03210000-1330150548_thumb.pngpost-16-0-41020200-1330150555_thumb.png

post-16-0-98587200-1330150631_thumb.pngpost-16-0-07508700-1330150645_thumb.png

Do we know what that Not-Radiant circle is? I can't seem to remember Brandon saying anything about it. Although it is interesting to note that two of the Not-Orders don't have Surges. Why? No idea.

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I don't know about you guys but those "scarabs" look like the description of chasmfiends to me. The have legs coming off the back, pincers on the arms in the front, and mandibles on the head. Also note the lighter parts to illustrate eyes. Reminds me of eyes on the illustration of the so-called voidbringer in the book. I'm just sayin'.

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If you look at the illustration of the layout of Vedenar, capital of Jah Keved, you can see it has a similar six-arrowed configuration to our mysterious compass symbol:

http://isaacstewart.com/images/wok/tWoK_MAP-6_FOUR_CITIES-webres.jpg

Very interesting. Good find, Elwynn!

Yeah, it looks like an inverse of Vedenar.

Could it be the glyph of a City? Ur****?

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I just noticed something else- The symbols in the Radiant circle and the circle next to the Shadesmar page are related. The surges are the same- just flipped at the symmetric point (more or less). Even better- they're in the same place for both of them.

Let me show you some examples:

post-16-0-03210000-1330150548_thumb.pngpost-16-0-41020200-1330150555_thumb.png

post-16-0-98587200-1330150631_thumb.pngpost-16-0-07508700-1330150645_thumb.png

Do we know what that Not-Radiant circle is? I can't seem to remember Brandon saying anything about it. Although it is interesting to note that two of the Not-Orders don't have Surges. Why? No idea.

I had always thought the "Not-Radiant" chart to be an artistic version of the Radiant chart. I believe that the surge-symbols are no more than glyphs. We know that glyphs are often adapted to what they describe and can thus be written in a lot of different forms. As you pointed out, the surges are the same, you find the caracteristic glyph in both. So to me it's just in-world glyphs depicted in different styles.

Also, if that Shadesmar-map is an in-world window, the fact that the map and the chart have the same frame could mean that this one also is an in-world window somewhere.

Following this idea, the lack of connections between "Not-orders" and surges could just be due to the articstic interpretation.

Nevertheless, you brought me to consider that the "not-radiant" chart could very well be something different than an artistic interpretation. After all I haven't found any similarities between the swordglyphs and those on the "not-radiant" chart yet. But again. Maybe the radiant-chart was the original version of the KR. The not-radiant a Vorin one.

One more thought. If I'm right about the surges being glyphs, than they have meaning (like the Alethi script from Navani's notebook, which has been deciphered). It would be very interesting to see if someone will be able to decipher the glyphs. (We would get to know the surges... ;) )

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It could be Urithiru, actually. Makes sense. In fact, the fact that it was specifically not Isasik Shulin according to Peter makes me think maybe it's the insignia of the cartographers for Urithiru.

Edited by Gela
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Brandon has said that something about the molecular strucure of certain metals react with preservation and ruin in the same way that drawn symbols react with the elantrian shard.

I think that this symbol works the same way. And would like to point out that Shallan's assasin friend showed her the symbols of major cities with sand and a funny instrument. They might be connected to Honor, Cultivation, or other shards.

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If they were the same thing, wouldn't all of the connections be the same?

As you can see here:

post-16-0-38046900-1330326856_thumb.png post-16-0-22005900-1330326866_thumb.png

the middle two orders in the Not-Radiant chart aren't connected to a surge-thingy.

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If they were the same thing, wouldn't all of the connections be the same?

As you can see here:

post-16-0-38046900-1330326856_thumb.png post-16-0-22005900-1330326866_thumb.png

the middle two orders in the Not-Radiant chart aren't connected to a surge-thingy.

Following this idea, the lack of connections between "Not-orders" and surges could just be due to the articstic interpretation.

the freedom of art... the "not-radiant" chart is much more colorful, it would make a great window IMO. If the artist thought that the connections would spoil the result, well, he just omitted them.

Of course that's just a theory, as I tried to explain ;)

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