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Theory: Shadesmar Map is Complete


discipleofhoid

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Note: This theory may change significantly as I am still unsure about it.

Theory Statement:

The entire Cosmere is represented in the map of Shadesmar in the Way of Kings.

Reasoning behind theory:

These two quotes from the recent signings got me to examining the map of shadesmar.

I wasn't able to personally go to the signing, but a friend of mine went for me and asked Brandon to sign my book with a "hint about the Cosmere." He laughed and said "one of those people," and wrote: "Look at the map of Shadesmar, there are clues."

I don't recall if this has been posted before, but coupled with the quote in this post about the expanse of densities, I would hazard that we should be looking more closely at that map.

Expanse of the densities = a world you know.

If we combine these two and assume that all of the Expanses are worlds we have 3 worlds

Expanse of the Densities

Expanse of the Broken Sky

Expanse of the Vapors

I then took it a step further and assumed the nexuses were also worlds. There are 3 of these as well.

Nexus of Transition

Nexus of Imagination

Nexus of Truth

With Roshar we have 7 Planets. This all solidified when I read this post and realized that we currently know of 7 planned Shardworlds. I think Brandon may have finally nailed down how many planets he wanted.

For shards this would make

2 shards on Scandrial

1 on Nalthis

3 on Roshar

2 on Sel

1 on Silence Divine Planet

2 on Taldain

5 on Yolen

Let me know what you guys think. Then we can start figuring out which name refers to which planet.

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If we combine these two and assume that all of the Expanses are worlds we have 3 worlds

Expanse of the Densities

Expanse of the Broken Sky

Expanse of the Vapors

I can't find the quote right now but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there is supposed to be another Expanse on the bottom left behind where the Shadesmar label is. I think it said they took it off because that was the only place the Shadesmar label looked good or something.

Edit: Found it! This quote is by Peter Ahlstrom from the Observation on Shardesmar topic.

I wouldn't read too much into the number of things on the Shadesmar map. Brandon mentioned something about how there was supposed to be another label where it says Shadesmar, but Isaac deleted it or moved it because it would get in the way of the Shadesmar label. Also, remember that this map is supposed to represent a stained-glass window that actually exists somewhere in the cosmere. It could be just as wrong as the Mistborn metal charts that show atium in a pair with gold.
For shards this would make

2 shards on Scandrial

1 on Nalthis

3 on Roshar

2 on Sel

1 on Silence Divine Planet

2 on Taldain

5 on Yolen

Where did you get 5 for Yolen? That's the world of Dragonsteel right? And I thought that Dragonsteel was set before the Shattering of Andonalsium, but I could be wrong about that. It would be cool if this map did show all of Shadesmar!

Edited by Windrunner
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I can't find the quote right now but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that there is supposed to be another Expanse on the bottom left behind where the Shadesmar label is. I think it said they took it off because that was the only place the Shadesmar label looked good or something.

Where did you get 5 for Yolen? That's the world of Dragonsteel right? And I thought that Dragonsteel was set before the Shattering of Andonalsium, but I could be wrong about that. It would be cool if this map did show all of Shadesmar!

The 5 for Yolen (which is the planet where Dragonsteel and Liar take place) is by process of elimination, seven shardworlds (of which we know the exact number of shards on 6 planets) and a total of 16 Adonalsium Shards.

Afaik, Liar may or may not take place before the Shattering and the main Dragonsteel storyline most likely takes place afterwards.

While it is a pretty cool idea, and I like it quite a bit, if you are going to have each of the Expanses and Nexi be a world, then you should probably add the Seas. (Remember that when Shallan went to Shadesmar she popped out in one of the Seas so it may be that Roshar is a Sea.

) This would yield a total of 10 worlds (which may not all be in the Physical realm): 3 from the Seas, 3 from the Nexi and 4 from the Expanses (thanks for finding that Windrunner, I remembered hearing that too, but couldn't find it in the short time I looked.) Alternatively, the three seas are some sort of afterlife or waystation and there are only seven worlds.

With "Expanse of the Densities" (What does that even mean?!? A large area of density... <_< ) being a world we know then it is probably one of the worlds mentioned in the four published novels (do you happen to have the source for that quote? I remember seeing it, but it would help narrow the guesses down if we knew the context.) So that gives us Sel, Scadrial, Nalthis and Roshar as possible locations for the "Expanse of the Densities." If it was told to a more knowledgeable person (with respect to the unpublished works) then it might be a lot harder...

Wild speculation away!!:

World: Location on Shadesmar: Wishy-washy Reasoning :D

Scadrial: Expanse of the Vapors/Densities: Both Shards manifest themselves as vapors (mist, smoke). / Doesn't really fit with Sel, Nalthis, or Roshar, meaning it must go here (for Densities.) Then again, it doesn't really go with anything that I can think of...

Roshar: Expanse of the Broken Sky/Sea of Lost Lights/Nexus of Truth: For some reason Broken Sky seems to fit Roshar. I can't quite pin down why, though. Broken Sky could also refer to the Silence Divine planet. / The Sea of Lost Lights is in reference to Shallan's experience in Shadesmar: a sea of beads and floating lights. I don't know if that is just due to the soulcasting or if the SoLL is the location of Roshar on Shadesmar. / Truth is fairly important to the magic systems that we have seen on Roshar. (Being true to the Ideals of the KR and revealing a truth to fuel soulcasting.)

Sel: Nexus of Imagination: Seems to fit pretty well with the magic system.

Nalthis: Nexus of Transition/Sea of Souls: Not too sure on this one, though BioChroma and awakening means that people's Breath is moving around all the time. / With the moving of Breath, there are a lot of "souls" being moved around.

Taldain: Don't know enough... :(

Silence Divine Planet: As Taldain... :( (If Silence Divine/Taldain is the book with the pain/affliction based magic system then I could see the Sea of Regret being there.)

Yolen: Nexus of Transition/Nexus of Truth: Again, not too sure, but Yolen seems to be the originator for all of the silly messes that are going on in the Cosmere and whatever happened here caused a lot of transition. / The first novel that takes place on Yolen is "Liar," after all.

Edited by Thor
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why would shadesmar for the cosmere look like aninverted roshar?

It's an in-world painting, so it may be biased. As I understand, the theory is that the manes on the map are complete. The shape may be wrong... or irrelevand. It's a realm of thought, why should it have a set shape at all?

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sure but the map of europe isnt actually a map of the universe with equal sized areas for all the planets in the cosmere, its really a map of europe.

Maybe I worded it wrong in the theory - This is a map of the shadesmar focusing on roshar - with the other locations accessible via shadesmar shown. I would guess that Expanse of the vapors looks like an inverted what ever planet it is etc. So saying it is complete is probably a little off. It contains references to all shadesmar locations would be better.

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it could be, but if you like at it from my perspective, it looks exactly like the map of roshar, except with the land and water reversed, where the normal map has deep sea around the edges, this one has high mountains.

the places named could be actual gateways to other worlds or maybe its just how those people name the place, to keep it seperate from actual place names which could be confusing

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it could be, but if you like at it from my perspective, it looks exactly like the map of roshar, except with the land and water reversed, where the normal map has deep sea around the edges, this one has high mountains.

the places named could be actual gateways to other worlds or maybe its just how those people name the place, to keep it seperate from actual place names which could be confusing

That is close to what I was trying to say. This is the map of Shadesmar in Roshar - The areas where the other planets would be/connect are shown as the Expanses and Nexuses. I don't think the Seas are other planets because they actually form the shape of Roshar which makes no sense if they are other planets.

That at least one of the expanses is another planet is confirmed. I don't think it to much of a stretch to expand that to all of the expanses. The nexuses is a little more of a stretch.

Do you think it is too much of a stretch?

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eh ye but shallan has managed not to die and jasnah had to start somewhere, i was talking about people with at least a small amount of competence there xD

side note, shallan gets in with a truth, more powerful truth stronger connection to it or summit like that? maybe u get in physically by revealing your true self! (some kinda truth about you that defines u in some way? or i dunno random thoughts :/)

Edited by Wispsy
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I agree with the idea that this map is of the cosmere, and think about it - Nexus, Expanses and Seas....three different geographies....and there are three different realms. The Physical, the Cognitive and the Spiritual. My guess is that there are ten shard worlds as well, and that while all of them exist in all three realms, they each have a stronger presence in one of the realms than the other two. For instance an 'Expanse' world exists primarily in the Physical realm while a 'Sea' world has a stronger presence in the Spiritual Realm. My theory is one of the indicators of whether a Shardworld is rooted more in the Spiritual, Cognitive or Physical realm is in how the magic of a world is expressed.

I believe the Seas are shardworlds with a heavier presence in the Spiritual realm. Expanses refers to 'a wide and open extent, as of a surface or land', and I think those are shardworlds with a stronger foothold in the Physical realm. Nexus refers to a place where two things converge, and I think its a good way to describe shardworlds of the Cognitive realm, as Thought is kind of in between the Physical and Spiritual - its where the stuff inside, motivations, inner natures, etc transforms into intent (thoughts) that shape actions that affect the physical.

Nalthis, IMO, is a Spiritual shardworld, making it a Sea on the Shadesmar map. Specifically, I think its the Sea of Souls. That is in essence what Breaths are - both the Breaths that power everyday BioChroma and the Divine Breaths that are how Endowment Returns people - from beyond 'a wave or sea of light' as is described in Warbreaker. In Hero of Ages, Sazed said he couldn't quite get to where Vin and Elend were in the afterlife, though he thought he could learn in time - I think this is because Scadrial is an Expanse, or Physical world, further removed from the Spiritual realm. But a shardworld focused primarily in the Spiritual Realm, like Nalthis, would be much closer to its afterlife, making it easier for souls to cross from one side to the other. Basically, I'm saying I think Nalthis we see in Warbreaker is simply the physical shadow of the real Nalthis, a sea of souls in the Spiritual realm where Endowment's presence is centered and which sometimes sends back souls from beyond a wave or sea of light to warn people and help shape the future.

Roshar is also a Sea or Spiritual shardworld - specifically the Sea of Lost Lights, where Shallan pops up when she comes to Shadesmar. Much like the Breaths on Nalthis, the primary magic of Roshar comes from within - the oaths of the Orders of Radiants, which are born from people's spirits - their commitments to ideals such as honor, truth, etc. I'm willing to bet that Surgebinding's opposite, Voidbinding, comes from commitment to negative ideals. Regardless, there are other arguments for Roshar being a Sea with a strong presence in the Spiritual realm - I wonder if the Tranquiline Halls that Voidbringers were set to have cast man out of are completely in the Spiritual realm? As for the Sea of Lost Lights specifically - mostly I suspect that due to it being where Shallan emerged in Shadesmar, but the Lost Lights could refer to man being cast out of the Tranquiline Halls, or something to do with spren.

I think the Expanses are worlds with a stronger Physical presence, and these are the worlds with magics hardwired into its peoples' spiritual DNA - perhaps because these are the worlds furthest removed from the Spiritual realm and the purest sources of Investiture? (Just a random thought). But Scadrial would definitely be a Physical realm or Expanse - I think its the Expanse of the Densities. I think the Expanse of the Broken Sky is Taldain, the world of White Sand. (One of the only things I've seen said about that world is that its on a fixed axis, so one half of it is always in sunlight and the other half is always in night). I'm not sure which worlds would be the Expanse of the Vapors and the fourth unnamed Expanse, though I suspect one is the SILENCE DIVINE world.

The Cognitive worlds then would be the Nexus worlds on the map. I haven't decided yet if I think Sel is a Cognitive or a Spiritual shardworld, and thus a Nexus or a Sea on the map. If it is a Sea, then we haven't seen any Cognitive or Nexus worlds yet, but I kinda suspect its a Nexus. I have another theory that magic practitioners from the Nexus worlds would be most adept at using Shadesmar to world-hop, but that's too long to outline here.

Edited by Shard Obsessed
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So why are the seas shaped like roshar then? Coincidence?

Why???

It's an in-world painting, so it may be biased. As I understand, the theory is that the manes on the map are complete. The shape may be wrong... or irrelevand. It's a realm of thought, why should it have a set shape at all?

I believe that's why.

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So from what I understand, the reasoning for the seas being other planets is that shadesmar, as the cognitive realm shouldn't really reflect the physical realm. i.e it shouldn't have a set shape. The other reason that is given is that this is an in world representation and could be wrong due to in world bias. These are reasonable assumptions - However given the other evidence we have I don't think this could be the case. Here is my reasoning:

1. Shadesmar can be used not only to move from planet to planet as well as to discrete locations on a planets surface.

We have 1 confirmed case of this and some other possibilities.

Speaking of Hoid Brandon said:

He isn’t seen here, though he does still infiltrate the Well. (Hoid is quite proficient at manipulating Shadesmar for his own ends.)

This is the confirmed case.

Others would include the Traveling power mentioned in the Jasnah Chapter headers.

2.Shadesmar, by its very nature reflects the shape of the physical world.

Bold statement no? Stay with me for a moment and you will see why I think this.

She clutched her hand to her chest, losing her balance on the soft bed, falling to her knees on the rumpled blanket. She put one hand to the side, steadying herself on the nightstand, fingers brushing the large glass goblet that sat there. ...

The bed, the nightstand, her sketchpad, the walls, the ceiling—everything seemed to pop, forming into tiny, dark glass spheres. ...

You want me to change? a warm voice said in her mind, distinct and different from the cold whisper she had heard earlier. It was deep and hollow and conveyed a sense of great age. It seemed to come from her hand, and she realized she was grasping something there. One of the beads.

So what are the beads in the sea? They are the cognitive aspects of everything in the Physical realm. Shallan talks to the cognitive aspect of the goblet which she was touching before the change and had in her hand after the change.

Is would be reasonable to assume then that the sea of cognitive though would follow the shape of the land that the physical aspects are part of/ are on.

3.This map was created during the Silver Kingdoms - at the height of the Knights Radiant power.

An overlay of this map with the other maps in the way of kings shows that it matches the map of the silver kingdoms but that there have been land-form changes since then that are on the current Roshar map but not reflected in the Shadesmar map.

The Knights Radiant used Shadesmar at least for their transformation powers and I suspect also for their travel powers. They also managed to map Shadesmar enough to note that you could get to other planets from Shadesmar. Knowing this it does not seem reasonable to me that they would include 2 other planets access points in the shape of the Roshar continent on their map.

4.Most of all the Shadesmar Shallan visited had some shape.

There were flames and glass beads and a distant sun. This is not a shapeless "thought realm". It is more malleable then the physical realm but not shapeless.

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I agree with the idea that this map is of the cosmere, and think about it - Nexus, Expanses and Seas....three different geographies....and there are three different realms. The Physical, the Cognitive and the Spiritual. My guess is that there are ten shard worlds as well, and that while all of them exist in all three realms, they each have a stronger presence in one of the realms than the other two. For instance an 'Expanse' world exists primarily in the Physical realm while a 'Sea' world has a stronger presence in the Spiritual Realm. My theory is one of the indicators of whether a Shardworld is rooted more in the Spiritual, Cognitive or Physical realm is in how the magic of a world is expressed.

I believe the Seas are shardworlds with a heavier presence in the Spiritual realm. Expanses refers to 'a wide and open extent, as of a surface or land', and I think those are shardworlds with a stronger foothold in the Physical realm. Nexus refers to a place where two things converge, and I think its a good way to describe shardworlds of the Cognitive realm, as Thought is kind of in between the Physical and Spiritual - its where the stuff inside, motivations, inner natures, etc transforms into intent (thoughts) that shape actions that affect the physical.

Nalthis, IMO, is a Spiritual shardworld, making it a Sea on the Shadesmar map. Specifically, I think its the Sea of Souls. That is in essence what Breaths are - both the Breaths that power everyday BioChroma and the Divine Breaths that are how Endowment Returns people - from beyond 'a wave or sea of light' as is described in Warbreaker. In Hero of Ages, Sazed said he couldn't quite get to where Vin and Elend were in the afterlife, though he thought he could learn in time - I think this is because Scadrial is an Expanse, or Physical world, further removed from the Spiritual realm. But a shardworld focused primarily in the Spiritual Realm, like Nalthis, would be much closer to its afterlife, making it easier for souls to cross from one side to the other. Basically, I'm saying I think Nalthis we see in Warbreaker is simply the physical shadow of the real Nalthis, a sea of souls in the Spiritual realm where Endowment's presence is centered and which sometimes sends back souls from beyond a wave or sea of light to warn people and help shape the future.

Roshar is also a Sea or Spiritual shardworld - specifically the Sea of Lost Lights, where Shallan pops up when she comes to Shadesmar. Much like the Breaths on Nalthis, the primary magic of Roshar comes from within - the oaths of the Orders of Radiants, which are born from people's spirits - their commitments to ideals such as honor, truth, etc. I'm willing to bet that Surgebinding's opposite, Voidbinding, comes from commitment to negative ideals. Regardless, there are other arguments for Roshar being a Sea with a strong presence in the Spiritual realm - I wonder if the Tranquiline Halls that Voidbringers were set to have cast man out of are completely in the Spiritual realm? As for the Sea of Lost Lights specifically - mostly I suspect that due to it being where Shallan emerged in Shadesmar, but the Lost Lights could refer to man being cast out of the Tranquiline Halls, or something to do with spren.

I think the Expanses are worlds with a stronger Physical presence, and these are the worlds with magics hardwired into its peoples' spiritual DNA - perhaps because these are the worlds furthest removed from the Spiritual realm and the purest sources of Investiture? (Just a random thought). But Scadrial would definitely be a Physical realm or Expanse - I think its the Expanse of the Densities. I think the Expanse of the Broken Sky is Taldain, the world of White Sand. (One of the only things I've seen said about that world is that its on a fixed axis, so one half of it is always in sunlight and the other half is always in night). I'm not sure which worlds would be the Expanse of the Vapors and the fourth unnamed Expanse, though I suspect one is the SILENCE DIVINE world.

The Cognitive worlds then would be the Nexus worlds on the map. I haven't decided yet if I think Sel is a Cognitive or a Spiritual shardworld, and thus a Nexus or a Sea on the map. If it is a Sea, then we haven't seen any Cognitive or Nexus worlds yet, but I kinda suspect its a Nexus. I have another theory that magic practitioners from the Nexus worlds would be most adept at using Shadesmar to world-hop, but that's too long to outline here.

I love this interpretation of the theory! I really do believe that the "coincidence" of three realm types and three shadesmar types isn't a coincidence at all and I think this idea fits very well...

As to why it looks like an inversion of Roshar...? I think since the map and information are coming from a book about Roshar there is no issue with that. It may well look very similar to any given world when viewed from the point of view of those people accessing Shadesmar.

One of my thoughts that I had on this, and in looking at the actual map, I'm not sure how well it pans out, but what if in addition to the inversion of land/sea relative to Roshar, there is also an inversion of the characteristics of a world?

We know that Roshar is a broken land, at least the Shattered Plains. What if in Shadesmar, that corresponds to the Expanse of the Broken Sky (inverted)?

Similarly, if the Expanse of the Densities is a "world we know" and with inversion Scadrial typically associated with Vapors could be this one?

Alternately, my other thought is that if these do break out into three categories as they correspond Physical, Cognitive, Spiritual, I would say that corresponds to the magics of the world and what is used to "power" it. So:

  • Expanse of the Densities would be Scadrial because of the metals that are used for all the different magic systems
  • Sea of Souls would related to Breaths used to power magic on Nalthis
  • Nexus of Truth as a Cognitive world seems to fit Roshar given the "truth" needed to power Soulcasting, as the spren says, "tell us something true"
  • Sea of Lost Lights: if I remember correctly, the magic of the world that Liar of Partinel is set on is a light based magic...
  • I'm torn between Nexus of Imagination and Nexus of Transition for Sel because you can do anything you can imagine/write with AonDor, but the magic of Skai/Dominion seems to transform its practitioners as much as Elantrians need to be transformed before they can use AonDor

Thoughts?

What do we do with Brandon saying that you shouldn't travel to Shadesmar on Sel? Does that fit into the map at all?

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