FatherV

There’s more in there than I can readily assent to, but given how the Dawnshard interacts with Risn, “metal” is more of a convenient term than an actual metal described by chemistry. Metal is a useful term because humanity knows what it’s like to form an object out of a solid, or to form a molten liquid into something that will cool into a solid. Even a raw gem can be modified into a useful human object. Still, your ideas for the preconditions for a manifestation of Investiture in the physical realm are giving me much food for thought.

[deleted as already stated by another previous post]

So there are certain unintuitive consequences & behaviors of Shards in general, i.e. they could not be deduced from the notion of Shards without further input/data. One of those is the tendency of pooled investiture to form into some manifestation in the physical realm and take the form of a metal. This information was out there before the most recent cosmere novel, but the title of a Lost Metal got me thinking not about whatever the title is referring to (about which there is plenty written already), but about whatever godmetal Adolnasium formed, using the general method of whatever is true of Shards in general can probably be said about Adolnasium as well (but whatever is a peculiarity of only one Shard is inconclusive in regards to A, except as regards the intent of a Shard, since these are posited as aspects of the original personality of A.). Since this is the case, and Dawnshards have to be made of something suitable to the task of shattering Adolnasium, my supposition then is that Dawnshards were made of as much of Adolnasium’s godmetal as could be collected (possibly all of it), and part of this solid Investiture was burned (word chosen intentionally) away in the process of the Shattering, to fit what has already been given (datum/data), at least enough that it appears in the Coppermind. This theory does not preclude some of A’s supposed godmetal being still in existence, but I think it unlikely as various Cosmere-aware individuals are going to the trouble to collecting various forms of investiture (including godmetals). Also, since Adolnasium is already shattered, no new A’s godmetal could be formed directly, though the “difficult method” of creating godmetals mentioned elsewhere might be part of what investiture collectors are after. That is not part of this theory, only a possible consequence to accepting the premise that Adolnasium has a godmetal that existed at least in the past. Thoughts? (Note, while I did conduct a cursory search to see if the topic came up before and nothing obvious immediately came up after checking the searched items, any fault in the literature search is entirely mine, and I beg indulgence).

Being a handicapped human being doesn’t make you less human. What kind of thing you are is not effected. Spren are Splinters.

Except that Vasher has his own opinion on the Fused. “These enemies of yours though, I think they’re too strong for that. They’ve lasted thousands of years already, and seem Connected to Odium to feed directly on his power. You’ll have to find a way to disrupt their souls. You can’t just rip them apart; you need a weapon so strong, it unravels the soul.” He squinted, looking off into the distance. “I know through sorry experience those kinds of weapons are very dangerous to make, and never seem to work right.” Sentient sword references aside, unlike your typical cognitive shadow, the Fused are directly Connected (notice the internal capital “C”) to Odium. This implies the Heralds were not directly tied to Honor. The more I think about this, the more I wonder what both Honor and the Heralds were thinking. Granted, Honor’s Shard has no forward looking as a part of it, but the same could not be said of the Heralds who weren’t (most likely) even native Rosharans (as in born there and thus Invested there by birth), and had already seen terrible things from lack of foresight on Ashyn. Regardless, the Connection to a Shard makes these shadows unique among such beings. Moreover, they’re as crazy as the Heralds even though they have not been repeatedly copied recently. In the Heralds’ case, at least one thinks they have been getting crazier during a period of non-copying. It might be related to length of time of the Oathpact, not just generation loss at play, as that is the only factor that is notably different in this particular Desolation.

So, with the latest chapter, Vasher gives us his own theory of cognitive shadows and his own revelation that he most likely is one, based on the pattern of behavior of Endowment on his own Shardworld (all Returned die and then are without memories). In enunciating his own theory of the genesis of cognitive shadows he says: Kaladin hesitated. “You… died?” Zahel nodded. “Happened to your friend too. Up in the prison? The one with… that sword.” “Szeth. Not my friend.” “The Heralds too,” Zahel said. “When they died, they left an imprint behind. Power that remembered being them. You see, the power wants to be alive.” He gestured with his chin toward Syl, flying down beneath them as a ribbon of light. “She’s what I now call a Type One Invested entity. I decided that had to be the proper way to refer to them. Power that came alive on its own.” “You can see her!” Kaladin said. “See? No. Sense?” Zahel shrugged. “Cut off a bit of divinity and leave it alone. Eventually it comes alive. And if you let a man die with too Invested a soul—or Invest him right as he’s dying—he’ll leave behind a shadow you can nail back onto a body. His own, if you’re feeling charitable. Once done, you have this.” Zahel waved to himself. “Type Two Invested entity. Dead man walking.” According to Vasher, either a soul dies with too Invested a soul or you can invest it right as he’s dying. With Szeth, he was falling because he rejected the Honorblade, gave up all Stormlight, and died. In chapter 88 of Words of Radiance, we have this: “I waited until you crashed to the ground,” the man said, “until you were broken and mangled, your soul cut through, dead for certain. Then, I restored you.” “Impossible.” “Not if it is done before the brain dies. Like a drowned man restored to life with the proper ministrations, you could be restored with the right Surgebinding. If I had waited seconds longer, of course, it would have been too late. But surely you know this. Two of the Blades held by your people allow Regrowth. I suspect you have already seen the newly dead restored to life.” (Quoted from the Kindle version) He doesn’t say that’s what he actually did though. It’s “could”, “two blades...allow.” Of the two options in Vasher’s scheme it can’t be like Kelsier an intent to remain while overly Invested, so it must be the other of being Invested “as he is dying.” in Oathbringer chapter 90 we get a limited point of view, but its source is only the whisperings Szeth hears from other Skybreakers. “The Herald had used a type of fabrial to heal his body before his spirit departed. It had almost taken too long, however. His spirit hadn’t properly reattached to his body.” “...The other five kept their distance from him. Perhaps it was because of the way he left a glowing afterimage when he moved: a sign of his soul’s improper reattachment.” It is not stated, but the source is likely these same whisperings. Some have attributed the reattachment to a healing fabrial, but it need not be so. It doesn’t even have to be investiture native to Roshar. As we saw, Nale didn’t confirm a darn thing about how he did what he did, nor that what seems to be unusual to the Skybreakers isn’t exactly what is supposed to happen with the Investiture he actually used. Nale’s hidden things from them before. This assumes that Vasher’s theory is both accurate and exhaustive, but given the actual evidence, Nale could have used a Dawnshard for all we can verify. While an otherwise unheard of but theoretically more plausible healing fabrial may be the instrument of Nale’s action here, we don’t actually have any firsthand evidence of how Nale did it, only the effects themselves.

Being handicapped doesn’t change the kind of thing you are, just impairs functions. Spren are splinters (type 1 for Vasher).

I think Type 1 in his schema is “Splinters.” Not sure if all are sentient, merely alive given enough time & lack of interference. Idiscuss above whether the same would also hold for Shards, but it is not at all clear that Vasher intends to include them.

I wouldn’t put shardplate anywhere yet, since we have never seen them come into being. Too much is unknown about it. A blade is a Spren. Also, the Lifeless are exactly the sort of thing as Vasher, in his own view. “Dead man walking.” If charitable you staple it to the original body (Returned), if not, another (Lifeless). Vasher might have seen other Shardworlds or know of their existence so he doesn’t limit it to Lifeless or even mention them. A Shard creating a shadow probably has access to better “programming” than a shadow creating shadows.

It is not at all a given that Hoid is a Cognitive Shadow. In fact, I think there are quite a few indications that he is not.

“...You see, the power wants to be alive.” He gestured with his chin toward Syl, flying down beneath them as a ribbon of light. “She’s what I now call a Type One Invested entity. I decided that had to be the proper way to refer to them. Power that came alive on its own.” “You can see her!” Kaladin said. “See? No. Sense?” Zahel shrugged. “Cut off a bit of divinity and leave it alone. Eventually it comes alive. And if you let a man die with too Invested a soul—or Invest him right as he’s dying—he’ll leave behind a shadow you can nail back onto a body. His own, if you’re feeling charitable. Once done, you have this.” Zahel waved to himself. “Type Two Invested entity. Dead man walking.” Tough to decide if Shards and their Vessels fit into these categories or are outside them. Let’s assume that Adonalsium was alive and the Vessel of his (*grammatical attribution only) own power. I use these terms for convenience since every Shard of Adonalsium has the potential for a Vessel and indeed had at least 1 near the time of the Shattering. Certainly the principle of “portions of divinity seek life (absent outside influence)” stands. That’s true of Shards & Splinters (though the mechanism behind formation of sentience is not yet properly understood). Even if a Vessel of a Shard is destroyed it lives on, though how a Shard lives on when only the portions of divinity known as Splinters are the only remnant is difficult to grasp. At times the process is akin to splitting a worm, though since Shards can be recombined at least temporarily (Harmony. We really don’t know if they are merely held together heterogeneously by the glue of a Vessel or are actually homogeneously recombined, and can’t know until the Vessel is destroyed), the biological analogy limps. For myself, assuming Vasher’s explanation is accurate, I am prepared to say that Adonalsium was both alive & sentient, not merely a force (though given the magnitude of its abilities it would certainly seem like a force). Each portion of Adonalsium seeks life, and the more that portion contains its essence, the more self-determinative that portion is would suggest it. I also would say this would imply that you could not recreate Adonalsium as it was because even assuming that the recombination of Shards achieved in Harmony is homogeneous, and the Vessel of Adonalsium II voluntarily gave up being a Vessel (or did not survive the ordeal as the words of Brandon suggest) the resulting new life would be different than the one that existed before. This is not a full blown new theory of Adonalsium, merely spinning out the conclusions *if* Vasher’s theory is accurate.

My recollection from various threads and my own reading is that the dawnshards had a role in the destruction of the original world. Certainly, Tanavast is reported to have made such a connection towards the end.