Dros

I'm thinking mirianme might have the right of it here....though Shards aren't killed per se, they are splintered. The Shardbearer can be killed, and I would assume Odium knows the Shardbearers. Saying He and Bavadin killed Unity or Honor wouldn't really make sense. And it's unlikely he mistook Dalinar for Tanavast. Or....maybe Unity showed up somewhere it shouldn't have? Maybe Odium was so surprised he used imprecise language and he did mean he and Bavadin killed Tanavast/Honor. Maybe with Tanavast that Shard is Honor, with Dalinar, it's Unity.

Spoilers: I don't know how to do the tags! Sorry. Skip over if you don't want to see it, please.

It always sounded like the Shattering was a controlled event to me. I'm assuming the letters in OB were meant for Hoid, and, if so, he declined to pick up a Shard. This makes me think two things could potentially explain his motivation ... 1. Hoid is just a really good guy and doesn't believe he is worthy...he's a decent guy, but he's no angel. Or 2. Hoid didn't like how the Shattering went down. Holding a Shard would change his actions and quest, i.e. If he held a Shard he would forget about pursuing whatever it is he's pursuing now. He knew that and avoided picking up a Shard. I imagine Hoid and the Shatterers were present at the Shattering because they knew it was coming. Doesn't mean they knew 16 of them would become gods by picking up Shards. Could've been the intent of those people being at the Shattering was to contain it and find a way to put Aldonalasium together again. But the unexpected existence of Shards that could be picked up, ruined that plan. 16 people snagged Shards picked them up and took off. Perhaps Hoid is the only one trying to carry out the original ShAtterers intent...contain and reunite.

Really good point and I agree, I can't figure that one out. I also agree that hatefulness in itself isn't evil and destroying everything would not further Odium's Intent. So---maybe there is another big bad we haven't seen--or--is it possible for a Shard Holder to go insane? Maybe losing so much made him rage, like the kid who can't take losing a CoD game. I don't know. But I agree something doesn't fit. WoB: Hoid wrote the letter and Hoid and Rayse were buds. I do think the inability to grow a beard would be an awful thing to bear, though. OTOH, Sazed went Hulk a few times in his life and he did give Wax a chestful of weapons to do some major damage on his enemies, so I don't think he's a total pacifist.

It's my understanding that WoB stated Shardic Intent was focused on the people of a world not necessarily focused on the Shard Holder themselves. However: So it's not beyond precedence that Rayse might have internalized the hate inherent in Odium's Intent. Putting events into motion that will cause people to hate seems to be following the Intent of Odium. Killing massive amounts of people would probably make them hate, as well. Whether Odium is evil? It's not the hatred, per se, that makes us think Odium is evil. It's his actions. Causing mass suffering to satisfy one's own whims, to me, is evil (profoundly immoral and malevolent). I actually like the liquidating his investment in Roshar theory, though. Mostly because it helps rectify the original problem of having no one on Roshar to hate each other. But to answer #3's question, there's something out there much more powerful than Dominion or Devotion. If Odium wants to win without picking up another Shard, he's gonna need to be at full strength and be quite crafty.

Good explanation. I buy that.

So, now we know Tanavast could have survived the splintering of Honor...which means, Rayse went after Tanavast too. Right? Thanks for the quotes Weiry.

I always thought so. There's a voice that urges him to not just think them, but to speak them aloud. It was quite emphatic actually. There's something there about that, but haven't figured out what that is. Maybe it's akin to writing down measurements of spren, in which such an action holds the spren to those measurements?

I've wrestled with this concept myself. I think WEZ and the others are basically on it. The shard itself has corrupted Rayse, who was already predisposed for such corruption it seems. A corrupt mind can do some things that aren't in any way beneficial, even to the instigator. -or- One theory that was tossed around, but generally not accepted was: Odium isn't the one who wants the Everstorm to wipe out humanity and we haven't actually seen the big baddie for SA yet.

I don't know, actually. Can a Shardholder survive a splintering of their Shard? I had just assumed it was a death blow to the Shardholder to have their Shard splintered. Although we know two have died, I guess that doesn't really mean they died specifically from the splintering. Good question.

I'm not sure there was never technological advances beyond what primitive technology Kalak saw. I thought it was assumed the Desolations were so devastating that any advances were wiped out and mankind was basically forced to rebuild again after every Desolation. After all, how would Kalak have known the current technology was primitive if he had never experienced more advanced technology before then. (also assuming he is native to Roshar, which is far from certain.) That being said, I'm not sure it was humans who created Blades and Plate in the first place. Blades go somewhere when not in use (presumably to the cognitive or spiritual realm) and the Plate is definitely different from when they were used by the Radiants. If it was the spren who created them and embedded a spiritual or cognitive aspect into them that bonded with humans, it's quite possible that spren would be harmed when that bond is broken. My problem with this is that Jasnah is proposing it. I know she's an in-world eminent scholar, etc. But I still don't buy her Parshmen/Voidbringer theory, so I think it's likely she's misinterpreting some things. This could be another one of those times.

The Radiants knew about the Thrill and figured out a way to avoid it. I imagine the first step in avoiding the Thrill, is recognizing it does something to you that is not desirable. Adolin didn't seem comfortable with what he was feeling, so this might be the first step in him trying to avoid the undesirable side effects that comes with the Thrill.

Congrats! Good news in terms of the release is you'll be awake...alot--just about every two hours until the little one is satisfied to be exact! Bad news in terms of your sanity is you'll be awake...alot--just about every two hours until the little one is satisfied!

Doesn't seem like Hoid's MO though. He fancies himself a fly in the ointment, only now threatening war on--someone. He hasn't left much destruction in his wake that we know of up to this point--unless the Shattering of Andolnasium was his doing somehow. I'm on the same page as WEZ; having trouble placing the voice of this Glimpse with any of the current characters.

I'm not sure about this one. Odium splinters Honor and when Tanavast's dead body drops to the ground, someone is there to soulcast it into stone? How would they know who the body belonged to? It's my understanding the Rosharians are not very Cosmere aware at the moment. I guess that doesn't mean they weren't at one time more aware, of course. That being said, stone seems to be an important aspect of Roshar for the Shin and I'm not sure when that became so. It's quite possible, there were some people more aware than others, recognized something was happening, but didn't know precisely what it was (Honor being splintered), saw a body fall from thin air in front of them, didn't know who it was, but decided it must be someone important, and honored that person by soulcasting the body into stone never aware that the body belonged to Tanavast. However, I would think something like that would be kept somewhere secure and such a stone would find it difficult to find its way into Kaladin's hands in such a manner. So, in conclusion...eh, it's possible, I guess. I definitely think you may have skimmed the surface of something more deep going on, though. Something about the idea sounds right to me, but not completely right. Sorry about the ramble.