Kaladin_The_Stormblessed Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 This has been bugging me for a long time. I believe that when Szeth released Jezrien's honorblade he should have lost the surges of the Order of Windrunners, as according to Sylphrena, "He's nothing without the sword," and "He is no longer the weapon he once was." (Chapter 86 of Words of Radiance) Anyway, when Szeth is restored by Nalan, he possesses Nightblood, which as far as I know grants access to no surges, he has bonded no spren I can find any mention of, and he should not possess any residual powers from using the honorblade that I can think of. Yet when he is serving his squireship at the purelake, he uses lashings. I suppose it is possible for a knight radiant to share his powers with those near him, Kaladin for example, so this could explain those actions. However, these powers apparently fade when the "giver" of these surges is no longer near the "recipient," and Szeth uses the lashings at the Battle of Thaylen Field when, as far as I can tell, nobody of the Order of Skybreakers is present. Furthermore, he continues on the swear the first through fourth ideals of the Skybreakers without bonding any spren I can think of. I can understand the possibility that he is swearing these without a spren and simply intends to take them to heart, and that he may have to reswear them if he receives a spren, but according to coppermind.net a budding skybreaker must bond a highspren before swearing the third oath, allowing him the surge of division. The fact that Szeth has no spren, and has no other way of obtaining the surge of gravitation I can think of, confuses me as to why he can use the surge of gravitation at the Battle of Thaylen Field. If anyone has a decent explanation for this, I would be very grateful, as I am unable to find one as of yet. It would also be helpful to know if he has access to the surge of division, as I can find no record of him using said surge. I currently believe he doesn't, but would be grateful for any proof. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okdes Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 He formed a Nahel bond with Nightblood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaladin_The_Stormblessed Posted August 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 1 minute ago, Okdes said: He formed a Nahel bond with Nightblood. Can you find any proof of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okdes Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 I mean, it's pretty obvious. There's a WoB that you can form a Nahel bond with Nightblood, and he possess Nightblood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaladin_The_Stormblessed Posted August 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Yes, but why would bonding Nightblood grant the surges of the Skybreakers, and not, for example, the ability of the user to use Nalthis investiture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okdes Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 That's not how a Nahel bond works. Besides, Nightblood is patterned after a Shardblade and Sanderson has described him as a "robot spren" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaladin_The_Stormblessed Posted August 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Then should we take it as a coincidence that Nightblood grants the surge of Gravitation to the squired Skybreaker? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okdes Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 No? I suggest you research the Nahel bond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaladin_The_Stormblessed Posted August 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 In that case, you are implying that Nightblood acts as a highspren, which I can find no proof of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naurock Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 He's been taken on as a Squire for the Skybreakers. Just like Bridge Four they can practice lashings. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Naurock said: He's been taken on as a Squire for the Skybreakers. Just like Bridge Four they can practice lashings. It's this. He has no surges before being accepted as a squire, and he only gets gravitation. Nightblood has not granted him any surges, and he doesn't use any at all prior to becoming a squire. Edited August 21, 2018 by Calderis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 I see a couple of possibilities. 1) There's the possibility that Szeth was just a squire after saying the second oath and was gaining access to gravity surge merely by being in proximity to Master Ki or Nale (like Bridge 4 with Kaladin or that one dude with Shallan). 2) Several spren took notice of Szeth during his training with the other Skybreaker recruits. One of the Highspren may have bonded him in addition to Nightblood offscreen (it's strange this wasn't mentioned though). 3) My personal favorite: Szeth already formed a Nahel bond with a spren wayyyy back in his pre-Truthless days. Speaking new oaths now is merely reviving the dead spren from before (like Kal did with Syl in WoR). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaladin_The_Stormblessed Posted August 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 6 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said: I see a couple of possibilities. 1) There's the possibility that Szeth was just a squire after saying the second oath and was gaining access to gravity surge merely by being in proximity to Master Ki or Nale (like Bridge 4 with Kaladin or that one dude with Shallan). 2) Several spren took notice of Szeth during his training with the other Skybreaker recruits. One of the Highspren may have bonded him in addition to Nightblood offscreen (it's strange this wasn't mentioned though). 3) My personal favorite: Szeth already formed a Nahel bond with a spren wayyyy back in his pre-Truthless days. Speaking new oaths now is merely reviving the dead spren from before (like Kal did with Syl in WoR). Possibility one doesn't explain how he used the surge of gravitation at the Battle of Thaylen Field. Possibility two I guess if possible, but I find it unlikely. Possibilty three is very interesting however. Perhaps Szeth's actions as truthless "killed" his spren the way Kaladin "killed" Sylphrena when he didn't do what she felt was right. The swearing of the oaths as a Skybreaker may have reawakened his forgotten spren, giving him the surge. Now that I think about it, perhaps bonding the spren is what caused Szeth to become truthless in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvisual Haze Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Just now, Kaladin_The_Stormblessed said: Possibility one doesn't explain how he used the surge of gravitation at the Battle of Thaylen Field. Possibility two I guess if possible, but I find it unlikely. Possibilty three is very interesting however. Perhaps Szeth's actions as truthless "killed" his spren the way Kaladin "killed" Sylphrena when he didn't do what she felt was right. The swearing of the oaths as a Skybreaker may have reawakened his forgotten spren, giving him the surge. Now that I think about it, perhaps bonding the spren is what caused Szeth to become truthless in the first place. Nale was literally floating in the sky at Thaylen field battle. Why wouldn't it work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 Szeth had no surges at all at the beginning when he chased the convict in the Purelake. If he had, he wouldn't have waded through the water to chase the convict. He was then accepted as a squire and flew for the next test. By Thaylen Field, he already had a spren. It is mentioned when he swears the third oath. The Honorblade had nothing to do with it, and there is no conflict with the way squiredom has been presented. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaladin_The_Stormblessed Posted August 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 I had forgotten Nale remained hovering over Thaylen field. I kinda assumed he left as we never again heard from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calderis Posted August 21, 2018 Report Share Posted August 21, 2018 (edited) Nale had nothing to do with it... He already had a spren. Quote “Not yet. I swear to follow the will of Dalinar Kholin. This is my oath.” At the Words, snow crystallized around him in the air, then fluttered down. He felt a surge of something. Approval? From the hidden spren who only rarely showed itself to him, even still. He had surges at Thaylen Field because he was no longer just a squire. Edit: as to the question about division, that follows soon after he swears his third oath. Quote “What if we meet on the battlefield?” “Then we will both fight with confidence, knowing that we obey the precepts of our oaths. Farewell, Szeth-son-Neturo. I will visit you again to oversee your training in our second art, the Surge of Division. You may access that now, but take care. It is dangerous.” Edited August 21, 2018 by Calderis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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