• Announcements

    • Chaos

      Oathbringer Spoiler Policy   11/13/2017

      Oathbringer is out! Let's make our policy on spoilers clear! 1. You must preface topics with Oathbringer spoilers with the prefix [OB] in the front 2. You are only allowed to post spoilers and spoiler topics in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board, Cosmere Theories, and some select work-related forums. 3. For posts in the Oathbringer Spoiler Board you do not need to use spoiler tags inside a topic marked [OB]. For Cosmere Theories, you also do not need to put spoiler tags inside your topic if the topic has [OB] in the title. However, for Cosmere Theories, if you are adding Oathbringer stuff to an old theory without the [OB] tag, those must go in spoiler tags and you must make it obvious outside the spoiler tag that the spoiler is regarding Oathbringer content. 4. For select things that do require talking about OB spoilers, in Events, Coppermind, and Arcanum forums, those are allowed but keep OB spoilers in spoiler tags 5. Avoid and minimize spoilers in topic titles--even though those two boards will not appear in the Recent Topics ticker, topic titles still appear in Recent Activity and the forum home.  6. You aren't allowed to post Oathbringer spoilers in places other than listed, even with spoiler tags.  It will be nine months and then the Oathbringer board will be re-merged with the Stormlight board and you will not need to tag these spoilers. If you'd like to move something in the Stormlight Archive board to the Oathbringer board, to update it with new Oathbringer information, Report the post and we will happily move it to the Oathbringer spoiler board. Part-by-part Reactions Though the Oathbringer Spoiler Board will be very spoilery, very fast (maybe don't come there until you've read the book, as people do have copies that bookstores sold early), you'll have these five topics for reactions if you want to nerd out: Part 1 Reactions
      Part 2 Reactions
      Part 3 Reactions
      Part 4 Reactions
      Full Book Reactions For parts 1-4, they will not include the interludes immediately following it. On Discord All Oathbringer spoilers on Discord will be exclusively in the #oathbringer_spoilers channel for the nine month spoiler period and nowhere else.
PrincessMorpheus

[OB] Adolin's breaking

45 posts in this topic

We know that to become a Knight Radiant,  you have to be broken. But Adolin is such a happy,  cheerful person.  What if his 'breaking' happens when he finds out the truth about how Evi really died? The omission of Adolin's feelings on his mother's death was glaringly obvious....

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For Mayalaran to be healing, and the in book evidence shows that she is,  a Nahel bond already has to be forming. This implies he's already broken enough. 

While I agree that finding that out would definitely widen those cracks, I doubt their necessary. Rather than type it out, I'm just going to quote myself from the Mayalaran thread. 

On 11/19/2017 at 10:09 AM, Ookla, the Incalculable said:

@SLNC I've never been a fan of the "not broken enough" argument.

Kaladin and Shallan are extreme examples. So is Dalinar. 

Adolin has easily been through as much as Renarin. Just because he puts on a happy face for the world doesn't make his life "peachy." 

He lost his mother. Thousands of men at the Tower. Watched his father descend into a drunken mess. He snapped and killed Sadeas, which while it hasn't had social consequences, has still had mental ones. 

If he's not broken enough, then neither is Lopen, Lopen seems happy too. 

 

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve been toying with the thought that it’s gonna be reverse. That his Spren is broken and he’ll be the one who brings wholeness. It would explain to me why he seems so perfect in a way that still allows his character to grow...

its just a thought and I know it’s not super realistic. But I like the thought anyway haha. 

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 02/12/2017 at 7:30 AM, PrincessMorpheus said:

We know that to become a Knight Radiant,  you have to be broken.

Actually, it is you have to have a crack in your sprit web for the spren to get in. And we know from Vin the stress of being born can be sufficient.

Also there ways of artificial getting such a crack, Hemalurgy being the obvious one, and bonding a dead shardblade is likely another.

The necessary level of brokenness isn't that high if you remember Ym.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, WesHenry said:

I’ve been toying with the thought that it’s gonna be reverse. That his Spren is broken and he’ll be the one who brings wholeness. It would explain to me why he seems so perfect in a way that still allows his character to grow...

its just a thought and I know it’s not super realistic. But I like the thought anyway haha. 

This has become a popular theory. Because Adolin isn't written as if he were broken, because the main narrative doesn't convey the idea Adolin is broken, readers have started to argue the bond may work reversely. In other words, Adolin may heal Maya by not being broken... being being so nice he nurses her back to life.

I will personally stand very strongly against this idea as I feel nothing would be worst for the story for Adolin to revive his Blade by not suffering, by not breaking and by genuinely being so amazing he just spontaneously does the impossible. As he was written in OB, Adolin already appears too perfect to be true: he never does a mistake, never says the wrong thing, never falls short of knowing what to do, never is affected by the evens, never falters. If Adolin has a character flaw, then it is not visible within OB. Prior to OB's release, we could have said he has issues with relationships, but this was glossed over in OB, the character gets resolution without needing to look into himself to assess his own faults. We could have also said Adolin murdering Sadeas implied either a lack of control or a too strong pressure being put on him or hint towards a conflict in between himself and his father, but this too was glossed over in OB. Nobody cares Adolin murdered Sadeas, including himself: he essentially ends the book having gotten the butter and the money to buy the butter.

Adolin, as he stands by the end of OB, is a character without flaws. His only, only visible flaw would be "he is too nice", too nice with his father whom was abusing towards him and his brother as a teenagers (and childhood for Renarin). Hence, if Adolin turns out "saving Maya" by virtue of being "so nice" it just "works", then I personally feel it would be a great disservice to the character and to the story. It is also dangerously close to the Mary Sue character, this seemingly perfect character who's only flaw is something benign such "oups I am clumsy". 

So while I understand the plea for Adolin not to become a Radiant and the plea for Adolin to never break, I personally find characters without a flaw aren't interesting to read and usually turned out being either boring, simplistic or one-dimensional. Adolin is very close to being each one of those things, after OB, especially considering how Brandon shoehorned him into a position where he is unlikely to get any character growth, where he has 99% of chances to face further into the background.

In a general manner, I tend to agree with @Calderis in saying the fact Maya has started to wake-up is a sign of a Nahel Bond having started to form, even if it may be a weaker Nahel Bond then the ones we have seen. I will however argue the story doesn't write Adolin's character convincingly enough to make the readers believe this is an interesting path for him. He is too perfect, nor flawed enough and seems to have an infinite ability to cope. Also, he doesn't really have the page time to be really fleshed out as a character and suffers from the author wanting him to be the "steady normal guy" despite the heart-breaking backstory he got.

All in all, things bode very badly for Adolin's character, within the future of SA, but I will keep on arguing having him succeed with Maya being "not being broken" would make it worst.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, maxal said:

Adolin, as he stands by the end of OB, is a character without flaws. His only, only visible flaw would be "he is too nice", too nice with his father whom was abusing towards him and his brother as a teenagers (and childhood for Renarin). Hence, if Adolin turns out "saving Maya" by virtue of being "so nice" it just "works", then I personally feel it would be a great disservice to the character and to the story. It is also dangerously close to the Mary Sue character, this seemingly perfect character who's only flaw is something benign such "oups I am clumsy". 

 

So I have to disagree with this reading of Adolin. He's not Dalinar or Kaladin or Shallan, but those three are extreme examples of how people break. Adolin is the heir to a highprince and he's seen how Dalinar acts. I think Adolin has made a conscious effort throughout his life to not let loss bother him for long. I suspect that is extremely unhealthy in the long term, but it's how he deals with things. Adolin is far from perfect. He is impulsive and not nearly as tactically brilliant as Dalinar, and we see both of those flaws land him in situations where he almost gets himself killed in WoR and OB. He's also developing an inferiority complex about his lack of Radiant powers, which is a completely logical flaw for someone like him to have. Adolin also has a seemingly large distrust in his own abilities. It's there in WoK and WoR and is coming more to the foreground in OB. He holds himself to the idealized vision of Dalinar that Evi gave him, and finds himself always falling short of that perceived mark.

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Vortaan said:

So I have to disagree with this reading of Adolin. He's not Dalinar or Kaladin or Shallan, but those three are extreme examples of how people break. Adolin is the heir to a highprince and he's seen how Dalinar acts. I think Adolin has made a conscious effort throughout his life to not let loss bother him for long. I suspect that is extremely unhealthy in the long term, but it's how he deals with things. Adolin is far from perfect. He is impulsive and not nearly as tactically brilliant as Dalinar, and we see both of those flaws land him in situations where he almost gets himself killed in WoR and OB. He's also developing an inferiority complex about his lack of Radiant powers, which is a completely logical flaw for someone like him to have. Adolin also has a seemingly large distrust in his own abilities. It's there in WoK and WoR and is coming more to the foreground in OB. He holds himself to the idealized vision of Dalinar that Evi gave him, and finds himself always falling short of that perceived mark.

The point is not that Adolin is perfect, but rather, that the fact, that he comes out of every of these situations unscathed makes his flaws pointless. You never have to fear for Adolin, because whatever happens someone is going to be there to rescue him. His impulsiveness brings him in a bad situation again? Well, either he gets saved or no one cares (like him killing Sadeas). It makes him dangerously Mary Sue like, because it never gives the reader the feeling to have to worry about Adolin.

A flaw is only a flaw, if it bears consequences. But that is only how I see it.

Edited by SLNC
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Vortaan said:

So I have to disagree with this reading of Adolin. He's not Dalinar or Kaladin or Shallan, but those three are extreme examples of how people break. Adolin is the heir to a highprince and he's seen how Dalinar acts. I think Adolin has made a conscious effort throughout his life to not let loss bother him for long. I suspect that is extremely unhealthy in the long term, but it's how he deals with things. Adolin is far from perfect. He is impulsive and not nearly as tactically brilliant as Dalinar, and we see both of those flaws land him in situations where he almost gets himself killed in WoR and OB. He's also developing an inferiority complex about his lack of Radiant powers, which is a completely logical flaw for someone like him to have. Adolin also has a seemingly large distrust in his own abilities. It's there in WoK and WoR and is coming more to the foreground in OB. He holds himself to the idealized vision of Dalinar that Evi gave him, and finds himself always falling short of that perceived mark.

I am not saying we can't make an argument Adolin has weaknesses nor is not affected by events in his life. I am saying the narrative we have read is not allowing the readers to conclude in a definite manner on those aspects. So while you may be right, it wasn't written very strongly into the narrative. There is a lot of things I felt I could read into Adolin's character back in WoR, but all were glossed over in OB. At some point, I have to take the facts for what they are: Adolin is not meant to be much more fleshed out than he currently is. As such, while there is a rational to be had, we have yet to read it.

Edit: I agree with @SLNC: a flaw is only a flaw if it bears consequences. Adolin thinking he can't meet up to his perception of his father's greatness doesn't cause him any real prejudice within the story. As such, while it may be a flaw, it isn't one which has an impact into the narrative.

Edited by maxal
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SLNC said:

The point is not that Adolin is perfect, but rather, that the fact, that he comes out of every of these situations unscathed makes his flaws pointless. You never have to fear for Adolin, because whatever happens someone is going to be there to rescue him. His impulsiveness brings him in a bad situation again? Well, either he gets saved or no one cares (like him killing Sadeas). It makes him dangerously Mary Sue like, because it never gives the reader the feeling to have to worry about Adolin.

A flaw is only a flaw, if it bears consequences. But that is only how I see it.

You must really hate Kaladin then. 

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Vortaan said:

You must really hate Kaladin then. 

Care to elaborate?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, SLNC said:

Care to elaborate?

Kaladin screws up constantly and has yet to face any real consequences for it. He gets powerups to save the day in Wok and WoR, and while he fails to do so in OB, he gets saved by Dalinar, and then by Rock. Kaladin's flaws are there but put him in no real jeopardy, no matter how bleak his situation. I mean that's exactly the things that bother you about Adolin correct?

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kaladin ruminates constantly on his perceived failures, and is miserable as a consequence of it. I don't really see consequences for a radiant as meaningful if they are purely physical. Lose an arm? No worries, it'll grow back. Died? That's okay, here comes Renarin. Psychological consequences hammer them though. In that respect Kaladin and Adolin are very different. Kaladin is miserable, Adolin seems reasonably content with his lot in life. They are both guilty of similar lapses in judgement and impusivity, but Kaladin bears consequences for it that Adolin is not portrayed as experiencing.

Whether that is a matter of Adolin being immune to consequences as some argue, or if it is a symptom of something else as argued by others has been debated extensively and has never been resolved through debate. Whichever side you fall on in that argument, Kaladin explicitly experiences consequences of his actions and Adolin explicitly doesn't.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Vortaan said:

Kaladin screws up constantly and has yet to face any real consequences for it. He gets powerups to save the day in Wok and WoR, and while he fails to do so in OB, he gets saved by Dalinar, and then by Rock. Kaladin's flaws are there but put him in no real jeopardy, no matter how bleak his situation. I mean that's exactly the things that bother you about Adolin correct?

His biggest character flaw is his hate for lighteyes, which he is overcoming, but which had real consequences for him in WoR. Syl died. He literally lost all of his powers for the last part of WoR. He redeemed himself and regained Syl, but that is not the same as consequences just not being there, like how it is for Adolin.

The power-up in WoK was not because of a character flaw, but rather because he spoke the Second Ideal and he made the choice to rescue Dalinar. He could have just turned around and left him to die. That is not what I'm criticizing. I'm criticizing, that Adolin is constantly in over his head and always just... survives. That's it.

That is a big difference.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, I totally disagree. Things with Adolin are subtle, because we don't get much from his PoV, but there are multiple points throughout the story that you can tell he's mentally beating himself. 

He has to keep himself buried in work to keep himself from. Confronting his actions. You see how discomfitted he is at times from the very mention of Sadeas' death. 

Just because the mental consequences weren't pointed out with neon signs, doesn't mean they weren't there. 

6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Just because the mental consequences weren't pointed out with neon signs, doesn't mean they weren't there. 

Yes, this would be the opposite of explicit :P.

/end pedantry

More seriously, the problem with it being implied, and with no evidence of the end result of any implicit consequences is that it's entirely a matter of interpretation. The disagreement in the other thread shows just how wide the range of interpretations of Adolin's portrayal really is. I don't think it's particularly unreasonable to view Adolin as not experiencing consequences, certainly not by comparison to Kaladin.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, aemetha said:

Kaladin ruminates constantly on his perceived failures, and is miserable as a consequence of it. I don't really see consequences for a radiant as meaningful if they are purely physical. Lose an arm? No worries, it'll grow back. Died? That's okay, here comes Renarin. Psychological consequences hammer them though. In that respect Kaladin and Adolin are very different. Kaladin is miserable, Adolin seems reasonably content with his lot in life. They are both guilty of similar lapses in judgement and impusivity, but Kaladin bears consequences for it that Adolin is not portrayed as experiencing.

Whether that is a matter of Adolin being immune to consequences as some argue, or if it is a symptom of something else as argued by others has been debated extensively and has never been resolved through debate. Whichever side you fall on in that argument, Kaladin explicitly experiences consequences of his actions and Adolin explicitly doesn't.

I agree with this comparison in between Kaladin and Adolin. So while it is true Kaladin gets several power-ups within the story, it is clear he does suffer consequences for both his actions and his failures. Most of his narrative is orchestrated around him thinking he has failed to protect people he wanted to protect, each time he tries, he ends up falling in one wy or another and it wears down on him to the point where it drives him into inaction.

Adolin has yet to experience consequences for his own failures and/or character flaw.

1 hour ago, Calderis said:

Yeah, I totally disagree. Things with Adolin are subtle, because we don't get much from his PoV, but there are multiple points throughout the story that you can tell he's mentally beating himself. 

He has to keep himself buried in work to keep himself from. Confronting his actions. You see how discomfitted he is at times from the very mention of Sadeas' death. 

Just because the mental consequences weren't pointed out with neon signs, doesn't mean they weren't there. 

As I said, while I do agree we could write a very convincing essay as to how Adolin is experiencing failure, it rapidly becomes a moot point as the narrative fails to make it matter. In other words, Kaladin's discomfiture matters immensely within the main narrative, but Adolin two or three sentences of mental beating up don't. He also ends the book in a position where he suffers no consequences: he no longer has to trouble himself with Sadeas as nobody cares he killed him, all of this stress wasn't enough to make him falter, if his coping mechanism is to work harder then he never reached a point where he can't physically work any harder without harming himself, if he feels small next to the Radiants then this isn't something which ultimately matters. 

So all in all, while it is possible the character did experience some mental consequences, they didn't matter within the existing narrative, they didn't serve for any plot purposes and they did not cause any visible prejudice to the character. Adolin marries the woman of his dreams, gets to be named Highprince and has everyone accepts he murdered Sadeas while all agreeing this would be the end of it.

1 hour ago, aemetha said:

More seriously, the problem with it being implied, and with no evidence of the end result of any implicit consequences is that it's entirely a matter of interpretation. The disagreement in the other thread shows just how wide the range of interpretations of Adolin's portrayal really is. I don't think it's particularly unreasonable to view Adolin as not experiencing consequences, certainly not by comparison to Kaladin.

I also agree with this commentary. Adolin is even less fleshed out now then he was back in WoR: readers still do not know where the character stands and if I believe the easiest interpretation is the right one, it doesn't change the fact he comes across rather unscathed from his ordeal. As such whichever character flaw he has, it doesn't matter within his narrative, it isn't something he needs to work on, to get over, to improve. It is just something which is, which triggers two or three sentences of self-doubt, but pans into a great nothing in the end.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, maxal said:

So all in all, while it is possible the character did experience some mental consequences, they didn't matter within the existing narrative, they didn't serve for any plot purposes and they did not cause any visible prejudice to the character. Adolin marries the woman of his dreams, gets to be named Highprince and has everyone accepts he murdered Sadeas while all agreeing this would be the end of it.

Exactly this.

Which is also why I'm so against the Maya revival plot as it stands right now.

Right now it looks like this: Adolin, of course, already owns the right dead blade for his personality and, big surprise, he's already doing exactly what he needs to do to revive Maya. I hope, that there will be a few more trials for him in this plot, but seeing our current mileage, I'm not holding my breath. If he just revives Maya by being how he always is? I'd be willing to finally fully say, that Adolin is a Mary Sue. Because it would also magically fix is supposed inferiority complex.

It's sad really, because Adolin - as a character - had so much potential when I first started reading him.

Edited by SLNC
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Exactly this.

Which is also why I'm so against the Maya revival plot as it stands right now.

Right now it looks like this: Adolin, of course, already owns the right dead blade for his personality and, big surprise, he's already doing exactly what he needs to do to revive Maya. I hope, that there will be a few more trials for him in this plot, but seeing our current mileage, I'm not holding my breath. If he just revives Maya by being how he always is? I'd be willing to finally fully say, that Adolin is a Mary Sue. Because it would also magically fix is supposed inferiority complex.

It's sad really, because Adolin - as a character - had so much potential when I first started reading him.

On this particular plot point, I do agree with you. I wouldn't want Adolin to end up reviving Maya just by being whom he is. This would completely alienate every single other Radiant character's progression which were all made of bumps and hardships. How is it Adolin gets to do the impossible just because he's nice and he talks to his Blade? This is why I am so set against potential story arcs where he somehow fills in the cracks for Maya, where he does not break, where he just gets more out of no visible effort.

Maya is why I want Adolin to break down. Bad. I want him to face trials. Real trials. Not trials which get pushed away after one paragraph of exposure, but real heart-felt heart-breaking trials which compromises his abilities to be the forever "steady and strong" character. Trials which force other characters to step in for him, as he has done for them so many times. I want him to grow, to choose the path of an Edgedancer even if it isn't intuitively obvious for him, even if he's not the right choice for the order.

The Blade revival story arc deserved as much. It deserved more than giving the readers the nasty feeling it is just happening because this is how good and perfect Adolin is. Adolin has tones of potential, but I can't see it wrapping up into a story arc anytime soon, not now he was shoehorned into being a Highprince. He will never have the freedom to grow now, he will never have the freedom to oppose his father, he will never have the freedom to choose for himself: his life has been decided and I can't say it is one I find interesting.

3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, maxal said:

I want him to face trials. Real trials. Not trials which get pushed away after one paragraph of exposure, but real heart-felt heart-breaking trials which compromises his abilities to be the forever "steady and strong" character. Trials which force other characters to step in for him, as he has done for them so many times. I want him to grow, to choose the path of an Edgedancer even if it isn't intuitively obvious for him, even if he's not the right choice for the order.

Dude just got married. He's got plenty of trials ahead of him, don't worry. 

7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SLNC said:

His biggest character flaw is his hate for lighteyes, which he is overcoming, but which had real consequences for him in WoR. Syl died. He literally lost all of his powers for the last part of WoR. 

I deeply disagree that hating lighteyes has to be a character flaw. If Kaladin actually lost his dislike of the caste system and the kind of lighteyes who use their position to step on darkeyes, I'd lose a lot of respect for the writing. Kaladin's response to lighteyes is completely understandable, and it's both significant and correct that Kaladin only gives his trust and respect to lighteyes who've proven that they're worthwhile (ie. basically only the Kholins). 

3 hours ago, Calderis said:

Yeah, I totally disagree. Things with Adolin are subtle, because we don't get much from his PoV, but there are multiple points throughout the story that you can tell he's mentally beating himself. 

He has to keep himself buried in work to keep himself from. Confronting his actions. You see how discomfitted he is at times from the very mention of Sadeas' death. 

Just because the mental consequences weren't pointed out with neon signs, doesn't mean they weren't there. 

I'm totally with you. Adolin is not a main character, and like his brother Renarin, benefits from a little closer reading and ability to connect the dots on the part of the reader. Adolin is a straightforward guy who isn't supposed to be a mystery to the reader, but since he gets less screentime, there's more to his character if you dig deeper, and less to his character if you don't. Adolin's whole character is teetering on the edge of a knife, deeply connected to his father's arc. So much of his character is bound up in being compared to his father and what Dalinar thinks of him, it informs so much of his character. There's a reason the resolution of the Sadeas murder arc in OB wasn't in the murder becoming public knowledge, but in telling Dalinar and what Dalinar's reaction.

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SLNC said:

His biggest character flaw is his hate for lighteyes, which he is overcoming, but which had real consequences for him in WoR. Syl died. He literally lost all of his powers for the last part of WoR. He redeemed himself and regained Syl, but that is not the same as consequences just not being there, like how it is for Adolin.

The power-up in WoK was not because of a character flaw, but rather because he spoke the Second Ideal and he made the choice to rescue Dalinar. He could have just turned around and left him to die. That is not what I'm criticizing. I'm criticizing, that Adolin is constantly in over his head and always just... survives. That's it.

That is a big difference.

Kaladin commits dereliction of duty that resulted in the king of Alethkar suffering a possibly mortal wound... and is not thrown in jail, reprimanded, or punished in any way. How exactly did he suffer any kind of consequences for hiding the fact that one of the kings' guards was a possible assassin again?

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Vortaan said:

Kaladin commits dereliction of duty that resulted in the king of Alethkar suffering a possibly mortal wound... and is not thrown in jail, reprimanded, or punished in any way. How exactly did he suffer any kind of consequences for hiding the fact that one of the kings' guards was a possible assassin again?

And he still hasn't owned up to that. 

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Greywatch said:

I deeply disagree that hating lighteyes has to be a character flaw. If Kaladin actually lost his dislike of the caste system and the kind of lighteyes who use their position to step on darkeyes, I'd lose a lot of respect for the writing. Kaladin's response to lighteyes is completely understandable, and it's both significant and correct that Kaladin only gives his trust and respect to lighteyes who've proven that they're worthwhile (ie. basically only the Kholins)

Lets face it. He is just as racist as those that did him wrong in the past. His general, casual hate for lighteyes is a flaw. Hating those that did you wrong is understandable, extending that hate to everyone with the wrong eyecolor is a flaw and doesn't make him better.

Racism isn't suddenly okay, because it comes from the darkeyed side.

21 minutes ago, Vortaan said:

Kaladin commits dereliction of duty that resulted in the king of Alethkar suffering a possibly mortal wound... and is not thrown in jail, reprimanded, or punished in any way. How exactly did he suffer any kind of consequences for hiding the fact that one of the kings' guards was a possible assassin again?

Maybe the fact, that he redeemed himself for that? That he also was responsible for the fact, that Elhokar wasn't actually assassinated and almost died for it? Besides, IIRC he pulled out of Graves' operation, before he knew details of the plan or the timeline. He figured that out when it was almost too late. He could have said, that there would be an attempt, but not much more and those attempts aren't really that rare either, so I'm not so sure if he would have been taken seriously.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, SLNC said:

Maybe the fact, that he redeemed himself for that? That he also was responsible for the fact, that Elhokar wasn't actually assassinated and almost died for it? Besides, IIRC he pulled out of Graves' operation, before he knew details of the plan or the timeline. He figured that out when it was almost too late.

Yeah, cause knowing that one of his men wants Elhokar dead in the King's guard is a little thing to forget. 

Before the trip to Kholinar its even teased that he needs to come clean, and it's dropped.

Edit: "Hey Dalinar, that guy who I gave my plate and blade too, his grandparents were the old people  Roshone was exiled because of. I knew that he wanted Elhokar dead, but I gave him shards and his own command anyway. 

It's all good though, cause I stopped it right?"

Nah. I don't think so. 

Edited by Calderis
3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, SLNC said:

 

Maybe the fact, that he redeemed himself for that? That he also was responsible for the fact, that Elhokar wasn't actually assassinated and almost died for it? Besides, IIRC he pulled out of Graves' operation, before he knew details of the plan or the timeline. He figured that out when it was almost too late. He could have said, that there would be an attempt, but not much more and those attempts aren't really that rare either, so I'm not so sure if he would have been taken seriously.

I'm sorry but this is the point where I need to ask you to seriously ask if it's realistic to leave Kaladin in any kind of position of authority when he decided "The king threw me in jail so it's ok to have him assassinated." Because that is what literally happened, and just because you changed your mind doesn't mean that betraying the trust of people who put their LIVES in your hands is remotely ok. For all we know Kaladin STILL hasn't told Dalinar that Moash is an enemy and that might have huge repercussions now that Moash is effectively the new Assassin in White.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now