[OB] Squires

[Ishu-son-God]

So the fact that bridgemen, and apparently many others throughout Roshar, can become squires - and stay squires - to a particular order without ever swearing any but the First Ideal raises a question I thought of when reading the situation near the beginnig of Oathbringer where Shallan and Bridge Four confront the Unmade beneath Urithiru.  As it's been firmly established in Sanderson lore that some sort of "break" in the soul, called "Snapping" on Scadrial, is required for a human being to be able to "bind" - or utilize - any type of Investiture in their Soul Web, my basic assumption is that all of the members of Bridge Four, being used here as an obvious example, "broke" in some way due to their time as bridgmen.  This makes sense.  However, Teft directly states to Shallan, during the aforementioned scene, that while Kaladin is gone his men cannot manifest their Windrunner powers as they are all currently squires.  The reason I bring this up on the forum and want to open it to discussion is this:  If they already have "broken" souls, therefore granting them the ability to safely handle Investiture, but have only sworn the First basic Ideal that all orders swear, then wouldn't they, if they knew it was possible, be able to utilize Shallans Investiture and temporarily become Lightweaver squires?  I want to open this up to discussion purely because, with the system as it stands, it seems to me that anyone with a sufficiently damaged soul is open to any type of Investiture while on Roshar, it being so prevalent there, based solely on the influence and emotions of themselves and those around them.  Do you all think this valid?  Becaue if so, we could see some hella crazy wars.

[The One Who Connects]

I think being a Squire relates to your Connection to your Radiant. So I don't think they Bridge 4 could temporarily Squire for Shallan, because they don't have that connection that they have with Kaladin.

[Ishu-son-God]

But so far only Dalinar is a member of an order that can manipulate Connection, and remember that on this specific world, due to the direct influence of it's Shards I believe, Connection has become less of a Cosmere constant as it is on planets like Scadrial and Sel, and more akin to another Surge.  Therefore I posit that anyone sufficiently "broken" that has sworn the First Ideal but no further, could (with permission from applicable Radiant) temporarily squire to any Radiant that so chooses them in the vicinity.  Remember that several men of Bridge Four started feeding off Investiture prior to even swearing the First Ideal due to their proximity to Kaladin.

[The One Who Connects]

1 minute ago, Ishu-son-God said:

Remember that several men of Bridge Four started feeding off Investiture prior to even swearing the First Ideal due to their proximity to Kaladin.

That was still Kaladin though, which was the one they have connections to. Spiritual Connections formed through shared experiences, rather than any magical means.

4 minutes ago, Ishu-son-God said:

But so far only Dalinar is a member of an order that can manipulate Connection, and remember that on this specific world, due to the direct influence of it's Shards I believe, Connection has become less of a Cosmere constant as it is on planets like Scadrial and Sel, and more akin to another Surge.

I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to say here.

[Ishu-son-God]

I agree that squiring directly relates to a Connection with a particular Radiant, my issue (or question) is that just the ability for a human being to accept Investiture without basically exploding requires a "broken" soul and really nothing more.  Since Investiture on Roshar is basically damnation near everywhere, why couldn't say some Skybreaker squire who has only sworn the First Ideal, which is basically a fancy way of saying zhe Snapped, attune themselves to a near Radiant in the moment?  And what I meant was that on planets like Sel or Scadrial, Connection is a fundamental aspect of the world and on Roshar that's more open to interpretation.  All I'm saying is that, say, Mistborn may be epically powerful, but they effectively bend the laws of physics to an epic degree while Surgebinders DIRECTLY MANIPULATE the fundamental laws of their realm.  Therefore, their laws are more fluid, hence my belief that Dalinars ability to not only manipulate but perceive and utilize Connection is something more specific to him as an individual and Bondsmith, and it isn't just some natural law, Cosmere or no.

[Ishu-son-God]

Therefore the bridgemens, or any squires, Connection is effectively a mute point since Dalinar is directly in control of that Surge

[Yata]

Connection is a fondamental Cosmere's Constant everywhere. The whole Spiritual level works mostly out of Connections.

Returning to the Squires. The Squire's bond operate really similar to the Radiant's One. People enough connected to the Radiant could become his Squire and gain mostly the benefit of a Surgebinder.

As the Radiants's bond loses if the Spren go too far away. In the same way a Squire loses his Power if the Radiant ho too far. But this isn't a "every Radiant around is fine if my Radiant is away"

[Ishu-son-God]

4 minutes ago, Yata said:

Connection is a fondamental Cosmere's Constant everywhere. The whole Spiritual level works mostly out of Connections.

Returning to the Squires. The Squire's bond operate really similar to the Radiant's One. People enough connected to the Radiant could become his Squire and gain mostly the benefit of a Surgebinder.

As the Radiants's bond loses if the Spren go too far away. In the same way a Squire loses his Power if the Radiant ho too far. But this isn't a "every Radiant around is if my Radiant is away"

That's my point exactly though.  I think specifically on Roshar the fact that a Bondsmith can directly manipulate the Surge of Connection it becomes less of a Cosmere Constant on this planet and more of a Surge, only applicable to thise that can control said Surge.

[Yata]

12 minutes ago, Ishu-son-God said:

That's my point exactly though.  I think specifically on Roshar the fact that a Bondsmith can directly manipulate the Surge of Connection it becomes less of a Cosmere Constant on this planet and more of a Surge, only applicable to thise that can control said Surge.

Mmm I am not too sure to follow you.

Connections change all' the time into someone's Life. Just because here someone could rawly add a connection, It's not too troublesome. Most of the magic does It also if It's not explicity descripted.

[Ishu-son-God]

I think you're confusing Connection with Intent in this response.  Your first response was more accurate.  Remmember that in the Arcanum at the back of the most recent Mistborn book, which we obviously don't have time here to delve into those implications, Intent is it's own fundamental concept.

[Ishu-son-God]

You state that Connection is constantly in flux, which I think is fundamentally accurate across the Cosmere.  What I'm trying to get everyone to discuss is the fact that, specifically on Roshar, Connection is effectively a Surge and therefore open to direct manipulation by Surgebinders.  Combine that with the supposed "research" being pursued by the inhabitants of the southern continent on Scadrial and you have a reasonably clear idea where these two series may intersect.  Again though, specifically to preempt any angerspen from forming, this is all friendly and speculatory

[Brightlord M. Alhstrom]

11 hours ago, Ishu-son-God said:

What I'm trying to get everyone to discuss is the fact that, specifically on Roshar, Connection is effectively a Surge and therefore open to direct manipulation by Surgebinders.

 

OK, why exactly do you guys believe this? Bondsmith have the ability to use Adhesion (Full Lashings) and Tension (In their case, repairing stone). It also looks like all of the Orders have a special power or ability that comes from the combination of their surges. Take the scrying abilities of Truthwatchers for example. It sounds like you guys are saying that the Bondsmith ability has to do with manipulating Connection. While I think it might do so, I don't think it does so directly. I personally suspect that Bondsmith have the ability to enforce oaths and bonds. For example, if you swear to protect someone, the Bondsmith could bind you, forcing you to follow through with your oath. Does that make sense? That, or something else around forcing people or work with each other.

Still, if it is literally full control over Connection, then that is way too powerful. Like, I can't really grasp the full potential. For one thing, you would dwarf any Shard, almost instantly. Why? Because you could break the Connection between the Shardholder and the Shard, and replace it with a connection between you and the Shard.