"Unite Them" --Stormlight Spoilers--

[maxal]

53 minutes ago, Contessa said:

As a Radiant, I'm thinking Dalinar will gain even more influence, and possibly be able to keep some people from standing with Amaram. I know he doesn't have the power to keep Amaram from becoming a Highprince, but he might be able to take some of his support. 

The princedom are independent one from another so while Dalinar may try to bribe (not his style) or talk to the remaining lords of the Sadeas's princedom in order for them to choose someone he approves of, he technically has virtually no say. Also, if I were a lord from the Sadeas's princedom, I would never allow Dalinar Kholin of all people to have a say in the matter. 

It may be there will be a day where the princedoms will be reformed into a centralized government, but this day hasn't come. 

39 minutes ago, Calderis said:

Considering the prominence of Vorinism, I think it far more likely that being a Radiant is going to reduce Dalinar's influence. 

The belief that the Radiants are traitors, and their re-emergence at the exact moment of the return of the Voidbringers everyone thought defeated isn't going to be seen as coincidence. 

Especially considering each and every single one of them is tied to Dalinar. It will make his task harder, not easier and if I were the others, I would try to cripple his influence right here and now.

[WhiteLeeopard]

If I were Dalinar I would kick the Alethi out of Urithiru and send them back to Alethkar to tend their hearths, telling them to prepare for the Desolation and promising to help when the time came. I guess that explains why I would never be a Bondsmith .

 

[aemetha]

I don't think Dalinar would intervene even if he could. Even at the end Dalinar seems to have relegated Amaram to the role of duplicitous ratbag rather than dangerously manipulative schemer. Dalinars honour made him investigate, but his lighteyes experience and obsession with uniting makes him underestimate the threat of Amaram. Or maybe he's right and Amaram will trip and fall down a hole somewhere and become a non-issue.

I also don't think it's really in Dalinars power to muster enough support to see someone else take the princedom. In any other princedom from what we're told it would devolve into factional anarchy, but Amaram is the ideal of a perfect lighteyes highprince in Sadeas. It wouldn't be a simply case of upsetting a balance, you'd have to turn a substantial amount of the population from their chosen champion. Think about how Trumps supporters stick by him when the entire rest of the US and in fact the world is renouncing him, it's not a completely anomalous comparison. People believe what they want to believe because they want to, and if you confront them with something too inconsistent with what they want to believe they simply reject it.

[maxal]

6 minutes ago, aemetha said:

I don't think Dalinar would intervene even if he could. Even at the end Dalinar seems to have relegated Amaram to the role of duplicitous ratbag rather than dangerously manipulative schemer. Dalinars honour made him investigate, but his lighteyes experience and obsession with uniting makes him underestimate the threat of Amaram. Or maybe he's right and Amaram will trip and fall down a hole somewhere and become a non-issue.

I also don't think it's really in Dalinars power to muster enough support to see someone else take the princedom. In any other princedom from what we're told it would devolve into factional anarchy, but Amaram is the ideal of a perfect lighteyes highprince in Sadeas. It wouldn't be a simply case of upsetting a balance, you'd have to turn a substantial amount of the population from their chosen champion. Think about how Trumps supporters stick by him when the entire rest of the US and in fact the world is renouncing him, it's not a completely anomalous comparison. People believe what they want to believe because they want to, and if you confront them with something too inconsistent with what they want to believe they simply reject it.

One thing which came to mind is perhaps Ialai has enough residual power to strongly influence who gets the required support to become the next Highprince. We know she and Sadeas's plans were for him to become king of Alethkar and to achieve this, they had to over-throw the Kholins. Now dear Toroll is dead, this plans has evaporated, so what will Ialai now rely on? Is trying to over-throw the Kholin's princedom still a desirable move? I certainly read her as a schemer and while she will definitely look for vengeance, she might look more strongly into her options now her main plan has collapsed. 

It is thus I have wondered if it would be possible for Ialai to strike a deal with Dalinar: she will use her influence to get someone favorable to Dalinar's cause chosen as the next Highprince (not Amaram), she will then ensure the former Sadeas princedom remains united within Alethkar and stops opposing Dalinar. In exchange, Dalinar has to give up all of Adolin's Shards including his own personal ones. They are to be written off as belonging to Ialai Sadeas and no one else thus making her the most powerful and influential woman in Alethkar. Whoever gets to use the Shards will only do so on her good will which will lead to hordes of men trying to curry her favor in hopes to be awarded one of the precious sets. Her future will thus be secured. She could even set additional terms in retribution for her husband's death: she will not officially press charges, but she will make sure Adolin is irrevocably punished. 

This way she has a means of survival, power, vengeance and influence to keep on being a player. Dalinar gets his unity, but he has to throw his own son under the bus to achieve it. I could see it playing out this way.

[Passion]

I definitely think the best way to keep amaram relevant is to make him high prince. The difficulties and conflict with Dali or are exactly what an author needs and wants (though I feel like a spoilsport and a cheat for doing something so pragmatic as looking at it from authors perspective!)

[FiveLate]

I think you are all forgetting one organization who would probably do their best to influence who both of the new highprinces are.  The Ghostbloods.  Some of them probably have access to the diagram too.  Both would want someone controllable in these positions, and I would not be surprised if Ialai had some connections with her vast spy networks. Putting a controllable stooge in power would meet all three of their goals allowing behind the scenes control and guidance.  

[phoenix2563]

Not sure if the Ghostbloods are following the Diagram.  The Diagram's ultimate purpose is to preserve humanity through the desolation (however accurate it may or may not be now).  We are not entirely sure what the Ghostbloods motives are, but it has been theorized (and is also my current leaning) that they are out to stop Odium at all costs for the sake of the Cosmere as a whole, Roshar be damned.  That could be why they are after the Sons of Honor, since in effect the Sons of Honor are erroneously helping Odium by their actions in helping bring about a new Desolation.

Edited August 19, 2017 by phoenix2563
clarification

[FiveLate]

49 minutes ago, phoenix2563 said:

Not sure if the Ghostbloods are following the Diagram.  The Diagram's ultimate purpose is to preserve humanity through the desolation (however accurate it may or may not be now).  We are not entirely sure what the Ghostbloods motives are, but it has been theorized (and is also my current leaning) that they are out to stop Odium at all costs for the sake of the Cosmere as a whole, Roshar be damned.  That could be why they are after the Sons of Honor, since in effect the Sons of Honor are erroneously helping Odium by their actions in helping bring about a new Desolation.

Wasn't trying to say that the Ghostbloods follow the diagram, just that they are aware of it.

Edited August 19, 2017 by FiveLate

[phoenix2563]

Well one thing's for sure and I do agree with you at least regarding Amaram.  The Ghostbloods definitely would be very chagrined if Amaram became the new high prince to replace Sadeas.  I wonder if they saw Sadeas' end coming to him, hence them targeting Amaram at the end of WoR.