55 replies to this topic

[Alliare]

Wow. That's quite thorough. I always thought Kvothe's mother was netalia lackless (was quite sure of it, in fact), but never went though it the way you have. Now I feel even more reasurred.

Cannot say the same about the 'Lackless door', I'm afraid. I can't make heads or tails of it.

Edited by Alliare, 12 September 2011 - 05:29 AM.

[guess]

I really liked Name of the Wind. However, I am mixed on Wised Mans Fear. I thought it was far longer that it should of been. The book followed a series of events, but event seemed to drag on. Too many stories, too many conversations, and so on. I like the overall material, but I think it would have been a better book if 200 pages were trimmed out. It really dragged on.

Likes:
-- magic system. He clearly spent alot of time on it and did alot of research
-- the concept. Kvothe basically going, I'm not so great
-- the hero is not a super hero. You get that impression in the first book which is cliched, but as the story goes
on Rothfuss makes it clear, he isn't superman
-- interludes: the parts of the story that were in the Inn were outstsanding. crisp, short, and to the point
-- I like the mysteries in the book. hopefully when he explains them, they will be interesting.
-- I like it when Kvothe screws up. he seems like more a real person
-- I like how Kvothe blows off his mouth AND this gets him in trouble. The trope in fantasy is the annoying character
who blows off his mouth then gets what deserves. In this book its the hero that does it. Which I like. He doesn't even mean too, which reminds me of smart people that I have met.
-- I like how its going to get dark and bad things are going to happen to our hero. This is different than most fantasy novels. It seems to be setting up as a tragedy, which is unique in fantasy books.

Dislikes:
-- too long. really dragged on. would go from event to event, then spend too much time at each. too many stories.
-- Kvothe is too over the top as an entertaining. Its a too much. He keeps saying he "grew up as an Edema Ruh". His parents died when he was like 8 or 9 right? That isn't growing up. You would only have images for memories. Even at 16.
-- Rothfuss used the word clever too much. That word stands out. First off there are different types of cleaver. No one is cleaer at everything. The part where he was this marvelous poet for his Patron was kind of ridiculous. The kid never had a girlfriend before that. It was too much. It got pretty annoying after a while.
-- quest is too good and too smart at too many things. It is a bit much.

[CrazyRioter]

actually Kvothe was 12 when his parents were killed.

[Argent]

A few more things I observed as I was finishing my The Name of the Wind reread and moving into The Wise Man's Fear.

First, TNotW: Chapter 1 describes Taborlin the Great as having three tools: "key, coin, and candle". I didn't find that significant until I noticed something about Kvothe's encounters with Auri. Remember how every time they meet, they exchange (three?) gifts? Well, I believe there are exactly three gift exchanges described in the books, and each one of them features one of Taborlin's items; Auri gives Kvothe a key, then a coin, then a candle. Check the chapters if you want:
The Name of the Wind: Chapter 53, Slow Circles

I smiled. “What did you bring me?” I teased gently. She smiled and thrust her hand forward. Something gleamed in the moonlight. “A key,” she said proudly, pressing it on me. I took it. It had a pleasing weight in my hand.
“It’s very nice,” I said. “What does it unlock?”
“The moon,” she said, her expression grave.
“That should be useful,” I said, looking it over.
“That’s what I thought,” she said. “That way, if there’s a door in the moon you can open it.” She sat cross-legged on the roof and grinned up at me. “Not that I would encourage that sort of reckless behavior.”

The Name of the Wind: Chapter 68, The Ever-Changing Wind

Auri relaxed a bit and came a few steps closer to me. “I brought you a feather with the spring wind in it, but since you were late...” she looked at me gravely, “you get a coin instead.” She held it out at arm’s length, pinched between her thumb and forefinger. “It will keep you safe at night. As much as anything can, that is.” It was shaped like an Aturan penance piece, but it gleamed silver in the moonlight. I’d never seen a coin like it.

The Wise Man's Fear: Chapter 11, Haven

I came to my feet and she held out something wrapped in a piece of cloth. It was a thick candle that smelled of lavender.
“What’s inside of it?” I asked.
“Happy dreams,” she said. “I put them there for you.”
I turned the candle over in my hands, a suspicion forming. “Did you make this yourself?”
She nodded and gave a delighted grin. “I did. I am terribly clever.”

 
I am not sure what this means, but it must be significant. Add this to the fact that Elodin has been trying to get to talk to Auri for a while now, it makes it pretty much certain that she used to be somebody important in the University. Plus, she does imply that her old/real name had grown heavy before Kvothe named her Auri. But then, I think Pat said in one interview that Auri wasn't in the book originally, so her role can't be all that big. Perhaps the key, coin, and candle are hints that there is something important in the Underthing; or they could be merely symbols to draw a parallel between Taborlin the Great and Kvothe the Arcane.

Edited by Argent, 18 September 2011 - 12:27 PM.

[Argent]

On a second note, there is a second thing I wanted to mention. Not as significant, but interesting. In Chapter 5: The Eolian of The Wise Man's Fear, Kvothe, Sim, Wil, and Manet go to the Eolian for a few drinks, music, and a game of cards. In the next chapter, Kvothe plays sloppy and Manet, who was being his partner for the game, asks him sarcastically how many spades, in total, would he have if he had three spades in his hand and there have been five spades laid down. A few chapters later, when Kvothe goes through admission, Elodin asks him the exact same question. Interesting, no?

[Alliare]

Oh, I got another 'might-be' clue pointing about Kvothe's mother being Netalia Lackless. Remember, in The Name of the Wind, when she surprises Kvothe singing a not-too-kind song? Well, that song was about a 'Lady Lackless', and she gets really pissed off. And, later, she sends him in some errand for him to make up to 'Lady Lackless and herself'. She even says it's not kind to say that kind of things because Lady Lackless is 'a real person', and probably, I guess, a person she doesn't want to hear being made fun of.

[Argent]

Yea, I wondered whether I should that to the list of arguments, but it seemed like the shabbiest one of them all, so I decided to keep the size a little down and leave it out.

[Ryan]

One of my favorite things about these books is the storytelling craft on display. Themes, symbols, and even insignificant things echo repeatedly throughout the series. A simple example: when Kvothe demonstrates his arrow catch to Kilvin, he has trouble naming it, and remarks,

"Delivari had it easy, Master Kilvin,” I said. “He just made a better axle and stuck his name on it. I can’t very well call this ‘the Kvothe.’ ”

--The Wise Man's Fear (p. 320)

And then in the end what is it called by Elodin? "The Bloodless", which is one of the names people have given Kvothe. These sorts of things are all over the place in these books, and I can't remember any other examples off the top of my head. It actually makes me wish I'd taken notes so that I could easily find the ones I've noticed again. It's done so subtly that you have to be paying attention to notice it.

What makes this most impressive to me is that I know that it's the result of years of painstaking revision. I don't know, if I were an author, if I would be willing to put in that kind of effort for these lovely details.

[Catalyst21]

Pat's Dad has cancer (again) He just posted (after a two month silence.)

For those that are interested:
http://blog.patrickrothfuss.com/

[Captain Cosmere]

I was extremely saddened to hear the news about Pat's father. I hope that Pat and his dad can spend as much time together as possible in the coming months and (hopefully)years.

On another note, one complaint that I have heard repeatedly about The Wise Man's Fear is its length. And it is big, no doubt. Many people have stated, especially on the hoity-toity review sites, that it could have done with quite a bit more more editing (imagine that phrase said with a very fussy, pretentious British accent.) I don't think they get it at all.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I do wonder if the people who think the book should have been edited to be shorter understand the vast wealth of absolutely gorgeous writing that we have received thus far. Pat's writing style, at least as demonstrated to this point, does not allow for short, light reads. His choice of specific words and phrases, his use of humor, his mysterious allusions to past and future events, absolutely require a larger page count and, thus, a larger attention span. Which is probably a large part of the problem for many readers.

Perhaps at the end of this series, we'll see that we have read more into things than we should have. Perhaps we'll see apparently significant events that lead nowhere. But I doubt it. Truthfully, I don't see how Pat can wrap everything up in just one more book, but he's earned the benefit of the doubt in my mind. I've rarely if ever found an author that is such a complete joy to read. I couldn't tell you of one word that should have been cut from The Wise Man's Fear. And I hope that Pat's editors continue to resist the pressure to shorten his books. A story as superlative as Kvothe's simply takes time to tell properly. I look forward to hearing it all. If that means that I need a cart to get the last book out of the store, then so be it.

Edited by Captain Cosmere, 26 October 2011 - 05:39 AM.

[Catalyst21]

Truthfully, I don't see how Pat can wrap everything up in just one more book, but he's earned the benefit of the doubt in my mind.

I don't expect him to wrap it up in one more book, and have never expected it to be done in 3 books. Lets look at the name of the books:
The Kingkiller Chronicles, Day 1, Name of the wind
The Kingkiller Chronicles, Day 2, Wise Mans Fear
The Kingkiller Chronicles, Day 3, Doors of Stone
In day 1 Kvothe says it will take 3 days to tell his story. I can see that happening. I still believe that Pat can wrap that up by the end of Day 3. But that only brings the story up to the "present" time. There will still be the rest of the story, which I figure (read: hope) will be another trilogy. The first trilogy is the backstory.

Just my opinion...

[Catalyst21]

ok, so I never got involved in Pat's book's like I have with Brandon's. I've never trolled forums, looking for clues, and espousing ideas. Other than religiously reading Pat's blog (and highly recommending his books to anyone who will listen) I have had no interaction with his works other than his books, which I have read numerous times. This post officially changes that.

For Kvothes mother, I fully agree that she is Natalia Lackless, and there are some other clues that point to that that haven't been brought up here, but that's not what I want to talk about. I want to talk about the king that Kvothe kills. I want to postulate that the king Kvothe kills is....... Ambrose. Think about it, when Kvothe first meets Ambrose, Ambrose is about 24 positions away from the throne. By the end of book 2 he is about 14 positions away. I think that the king Kvothe kills with such fury that it shattered the flagstones such that they can't be repaired is Ambrose.

Thoughts? Comments?

[PeterAhlstrom]

I've read a theory that Ambrose makes it up to first in line to the throne and Kvothe kills the king for some good reason, putting Ambrose on the throne. Which makes Kvothe really depressed. I like this theory.

[Shivertongue]

I've read a theory that Ambrose makes it up to first in line to the throne and Kvothe kills the king for some good reason, putting Ambrose on the throne. Which makes Kvothe really depressed. I like this theory.

That is actually a theory that makes a lot of sense to me. It could also explain why Kvothe is doing what he is now - a great effort made to help backfiring, and just giving him the idea that it's not worth it.

I like this theory as well.

[Catalyst21]

I've read a theory that Ambrose makes it up to first in line to the throne and Kvothe kills the king for some good reason, putting Ambrose on the throne. Which makes Kvothe really depressed. I like this theory.

oooohhhhh, delicious irony..... I like it!
+1 for peter

Edited by Catalyst21, 26 October 2011 - 01:45 PM.

[PeterAhlstrom]

I didn't come up with it. I think I read it over on Westeros or Tor.com.

[Catalyst21]

I didn't come up with it. I think I read it over on Westeros or Tor.com.

you still get a point, I heard it from you

lol

[Captain Cosmere]

Catalyst21, you have a good idea there regarding the amount of books to finish the story. I never thought of that, but if it involves Pat writing more books in this world, sign me up.

Also, regarding your theory on Ambrose becoming king, I've seen that in a few places and I suppose it's possible. For some reason, though, something about it just strikes me as off. Don't know why. Isn't the king referred to as the Penitent King? Perhaps I have a hard time associating that name with Ambrose.

[Alliare]

I've read a theory that Ambrose makes it up to first in line to the throne and Kvothe kills the king for some good reason, putting Ambrose on the throne. Which makes Kvothe really depressed. I like this theory.

Maybe. Or maybe not. Could be, but I think Ambrose would be too much of an antagonist if that happened. Too many things have already ocurred because of Ambrose. But that raises an interesting point: something Kvothe did ended up bringing worse consequences that the evil that was there before and that Kvothe killed.

Think. Kvothe is completely denying himself. I'm positive that his sympathy did not work when he tried because he cannot concentrate anymore to focus his Alar, he is distressed. And it would be the same reason he suddenly stopped fighting well against the soldiers/recruits and made a fool of himself. But then, he killed the Scrael. He feels that all he has done, in the end, has done more evil than good. But, in the end, he still can't help trying to protect people... or he hasn't been able to eliminate his old personality completely... yet.

Might be a mix of the two. That's my theory. I believe that his killing of the king, whoever he was, started the war. Ands that's the reason for he being so secluded, so humble. But, still, sometimes the old Kvote resurfaces again, and tries to do something to protect... because he feels guilty, terribly guilty. But his remorse is so great he thinks that, were he to do something openly, with his full power, the power he once had, it would only worsen the situation.

In a word: he is afraid.

[Catalyst21]

...

I could get behind this as well