Theory: Devotion, Dominion, and Convergence

[Chaos]

You know, I think we kind of take it for granted how much we know about the cosmere. I remember not so long ago that Sel and Elantris was a complete mystery. We all argued over what Aona's Shard was, mostly to no avail. We had no idea about how the Shaod happened, and virtually no clue to how the Dor worked. These two mysteries have made theorizing about Sel pretty hard, to say the least.

With the knowledge of Aona's Shard being Devotion, the theory that people who are particularly devoted to something get taken by the Shaod makes perfect sense, and matches with the Principle of Intent. Though a new mystery arose with Forgery and Bloodsealing: why are Selish magics so region locked, and what's so important about the land? Well, Kerry has pretty much answered this here: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3363-devotion-dominion-and-magic-on-sel/

So really, the prime theoretical difficulty with Sel is the Dor. That's what this theory will hope to explain.

Sel is very unique in its magic. Scadrial makes sense having three distinct magic systems, but Sel is way different, despite having just two powers. Even discounting the fact that there are way more than three magics on Sel, they are odd: they all channel the Dor, not Devotion or Dominion independently. They all focus the same power. And that's very bizarre, considering Scadrial's magics. Why does the Dor appear to act some homogenous thing?

Any way you slice and dice it, it's odd. Is the Dor Devotion's power? No, because the Dakhor magic isn't really accessed in a way in line with Devotion--it really feels a lot more Dominion-like. Dakhor channels the Dor just as AonDor and Forgery do. So, clearly the Dor is some bizarre combination of Devotion and Dominion, for some reason. And no one has (to my knowledge) really given a complete treatise on why that might be.

Windrunner:

Is the Dor made up of both Devotion and Dominion's power?

Brandon:

The Dor's nature, and why it acts as it does, is in part related to this question.

Any reasoning on the Dor's nature would need to explain how it is related to both Devotion and Dominion, and why it is this homogenous entity. It's certainly homogenous enough that Brandon has no qualms saying that virtually every Selish magic channels the Dor.

First of all, I'm kind of assuming you've already read the Letter, which says Devotion and Dominion have Splintered. Additionally, much of the power left there is not under anything's control:

It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why?

It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel.

Why does Brandon say "much" of the power on Sel? Well, the Seons and Skaze are related to Splinters, so those are the things controlling part of the power. But the rest? Presumably the Dor. So what is the Dor? The answer, I believe, comes straight from this quote:

Thanatos17901:

If Sazed were to die, would he drop the Shards Ruin and Preservation, or would he drop the Shard Harmony?

Brandon:

Excellent question. The shards are now intermingled, and would take effort to split apart. He would drop Harmony. (This is what Odium feared would happen, by the way.)

This blew me away. But, considering how important I find a Shard's intent, it's not exactly surprising that a way of altering the Shards is really fascinating to me.

There's a discussion on this particular quote over here, and Windrunner and Senor Feesh suggested that this may have happened to Devotion and Dominion--that they are intermingled as well. If you'll allow me, I'd like to name this "intermingling" effect as convergence, as something this important--Shards beginning to merge--certainly would warrant an in-world term, I think. It also has a nice parallel with "conflux," which is what Brandon named a book that has to do with multiple worlds in a very direct fashion (instead of in the background, as things are now in the books). So, Ruin and Preservation are currently converging. This is because a common mind is holding them. I propose that Devotion and Dominion are also converging as well. But, the obvious question next is, why the heck would they be converging?

Presumably, Sazed holding both Ruin and Preservation--one mind holding two powers--imposes some Cognitive change on the Shards. In the Realmatic terms like Shai, they are like two bricks in a wall, and they begin to think of themselves as a wall, not two separate bricks. This is, I think, the most intuitive way to explain Ruin and Preservation converging: the powers themselves are beginning to think of themselves as part of a greater whole, thus intermingling them to be considered Harmony. I would only assume that the longer Sazed holds these two power, the more Ruin and Preservation will see themselves as Harmony instead, perhaps eventually literally becoming one Shard permanently. As of now, they can still be split, so that indicates to me that this process definitely hasn't finished yet. Though, I suppose you could say that even a Shard isn't permanent, as Odium certainly Splintered Devotion and Dominion. The exact specifics on Ruin and Preservation's convergence to Harmony is certainly worth discussing, but let's switch back to Devotion and Dominion.

Obviously whatever happened with Sazed didn't at all happen with Devotion and Dominion; no common mind holds them both. In fact, they are both more broken than ever. But that may be exactly the key. Whereas Ruin and Preservation in the order that Sazed's control of them imposes, Devotion and Dominion and both similar in that they are both without holders and pretty broken. I propose that this also makes Devotion and Dominion converge, and this combined power is exactly what the Dor is.

Think of two vases, one white, and one black--Devotion and Dominion. Now throw them on the ground, so hard that they break into tiny pieces. Collect that pile, mix them up, and zoom out. If the pieces are small enough, the pile no longer looks like black or white; it looks grey instead. When two things are broken, they can combine in new ways, like two liquids forming a completely new mixture. Now I imagine this is a little different in Devotion and Dominion's case, as their pieces would be still tied to their respective intent, but I think eventually, this dramatic change from Odium Splintering them would mean that the leftover fragments would see themselves as a part of a new whole. After all, they both aren't being held, and are both broken. I think this makes a lot of sense as for why the Dor is the way that it is.

(Now, you may wonder why I didn't use the word "Splinter" to describe these pieces of Devotion and Dominion, considering Odium Splintered them. Well, we know the Aons at the heart of the Seons are Splinters, and to no one's surprise Brandon hinted that Skaze are similar:

If you wouldn't mind answering [to the question about why it is dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel], does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered?

No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. (One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The Seons and the Skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous.

The Seons and Skaze--presumably Devotion and Dominion's Splinters--are not enough of a release valve. So this means that there is a lot of power that isn't under anything's control. Duh, since there was no indication the Dor acted any other way. In lieu of a cosmere term to call the pieces of Devotion and Dominion's power, that's why I stayed with vague words like "fragments." We just can't really say they are Splinters, or anything about them.)

I totally understand if the analogy I made isn't particularly compelling, but it certainly matches with our conception with the Dor being a unified, mindless whole. It fits with those quotes above. But, maybe you want a little more persuading, so let's talk about some consequences of Devotion and Dominion's convergence, especially on magic.

Before Devotion and Dominion's Splintering, magic worked differently on Sel (though I can't find that quote right now). It isn't a big leap to say that perhaps the regionalizing of Selish magic happened due to the Splintering of the Shard. Maybe before the Splintering, there were three magics on Sel, like Scadrial.

Kerry's theory about Identity, people have an Identity tied their nationality, culture, and heritage. Her theory basically explains in how magic can be tied to the land, and how it lines up with Devotion and Dominion's intents. But why might have Devotion and Dominion's Splintering even had this effect of tying the magic to the land?

Well, Allomancy requires a connection to Preservation, and on a less magical level, people that are freaking ruinous would use Hemalurgy. Perhaps, due to Devotion and Dominion's Splintering and this convergence, people can't use magic with a connection to Devotion or Dominion directly, because they don't exist in the same way. Instead, the "largest" thing that people have a connection or Identity to--instead these all-powerful Shards--is their culture and nationality. People with a strong Devotion or Dominion with that, as Kerry's theory suggests, would now be able to use magic. It's all because Devotion and Dominion are Splintered, and their power doesn't have as strong of identity, so it is shaped by the identity of manmade, regional borders. If anything, the Reod and the Chasm teaches us that these magics are actually very fluid. Aons that worked a thousand years ago may need to be refined. Perhaps as regions and countries change, or as ethnicities converge (see what I did there?) entirely different magics can form.

Now, I'll admit, I'm not entirely sure if each regional magic is of Devotion or Dominion explicitly. After all, that's been the standing assumption with AonDor: it's of Devotion, not Dominion, and likewise Dakhor is of Dominion, not Devotion. But, it's a lot harder with ChayShan, Forgery, and Bloodsealing to decide. I am leaning to the idea that each magic can be in line with any sort of combination of Devotion and Dominion. Kerry connects all regional magics with both Devotion and Dominion, so I don't find this hard to believe. So, maybe presently on Sel, a magic is a certain percentage Devotion and Dominion. Unlike Scadrial where magics are 100% Preservation, 100% Ruin, or a 50/50 split, on Sel you could have 73%/27%. Who knows. It's entirely possible that we think of AonDor and Dakhor as Devotion and Dominion-heavy magics because the Seons and Skaze, which are related to Splinters of Devotion and Dominion, exist in these two regions, and so tilt the region's balance toward one Shard or the other. In fact, though I totally riffed that just now, it seems to make sense with the Identity idea. A region's Identity would be related to a ton of different factors, and maybe the nature of a given culture tilts the way a region's magic accesses Devotion and Dominion.

Here's an interesting quote on that note:

I know from reading your blog and various other comments that many of your books are in the same cosmos/universe, specifically Mistborn, Elantris, Warbreaker, and Way of Kings. I also am pretty sure that one day you'd like to do a series that ties all the different series/books together into one super-series. So my question is, would the various magic systems work on different worlds? For example, would a Mistborn be able to use his/her abilities in the world Way of Kings is located on?

BRANDON SANDERSON

It depends on the magic system. They are all related to a kind of "Spiritual DNA" that one gets from their heritage on a specific planet. However, there are ways around that. (Hemalurgy, for example, 'staples' a piece of someone else's soul to your own, and creates a work around to give you access to magic you shouldn't have.) Some of the magics are more regionally tied than others. (In Elantris, you have to access the Dor, which is very regionally influenced.)

So it's the exact nature of the Dor which makes it regionalized. I don't think the Dor has an intent, like Harmony does. The Dor is a product of chaos and brokenness. When something changes in the Physical and Cognitive, this can have a reflection in the Dor, so these distinct cultural Identities have an effect on the Dor.

What do you think? Admittedly, while this works really well for Sel, I'm not sure what is different on Roshar, which despite having Honor Splintered, has a non-regionalized magic in Surgebinding. It could just be that the nature of Honor and Cultivation don't result in regionalization. But, it would explain how some spren are of Honor and Cultivation. It's hard to say at this point, and while there can be more to this than I'm catching here, it seems very theoretically solid for Sel.

[WeiryWriter]

Wow, that was really interesting to read.  Is this another theory from the mysterious Shardkeeper's podcast?  If so, I can't wait to listen.

 

I'm interested to know what kind of impact this would have on my adonalsium can't be put back together theory.  I'll have to give it some thought.

[TheOneKEA]

Parts of your theory sound exactly like my theory about Sazed's successful convergence of his two Shards into one, so I think this theory is very plausible.

[lordofsoup]

Great read chaos.  Makes perfect sense.

 

About Harmony, could Ruin and Preservations' combination also have something to do with belief/faith/religion.  I was under the impression that this was part of the reason that Kelsier was able to hang around after his death.  Obviously having one mind holding two Shards makes them closer together, but could that relationship be sped up or strengthened by people's belief in the particular form of the Shard making Harmony into a new entity combined of both Ruin and Preservation?

[KChan]

...could that relationship be sped up or strengthened by people's belief in the particular form of the Shard making Harmony into a new entity combined of both Ruin and Preservation?

 

Theoretically, yes. A lot of Identity that's talked about in Emperor's Soul has to do with how one perceives oneself, but there's nothing to say the only influence in play here is the self. How others see us can also be a very important part of our identity, so I have no problem saying it might be part of our Identity as well.

 

RE: Dakhor magic and Dominion - despite the fact that we used the Dakhor monks to guess Dominion's name, I don't think it's so difficult to imagine that their magic is of both. They are fiercely dedicated (devotion) to their particular Dominion (their god and their faith). None of that invalidates anything you've said, of course; I just wanted to put that out there.

 

RE: My theory and yours working of each other - According for my theory to work, the regional magics would have to have existed before the Splintering, and from what I've read, that seems to be the case. However, as I said later on in the other thread, Brandon specifically states that something about the magics works differently after the Splintering, so perhaps the convergence of the two powers is causing for greater interplay between Devotion and Dominion - resulting in, well, we're not sure what. More strict region-locking on the magics, perhaps?

 

Good theory. I like it.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

So it's the exact nature of the Dor which makes it regionalized

I think that's a bit of a stretch given the quote. It could easily be read as "accessing the Dor is very regionally influenced".

[Vortaan]

I don't know that I agree, though I like the thought put into it. My impression has been that Ruin and Preservation are combining not because the Shards themselves are intermingling their Identity, but because Sazed is. Shards in and of themselves do not have a Cognitive presence, it seems to me. I always look at how the mists reacted without Leras to guide them for an example.

 

I suppose the tripping point for me is that if there is no mind controlling Dominion and Devotion, what would be the Cognitive factor pushing them together? The collected belief of the people of Sel? I don't necessarily believe that Shards will mingle without some kind of mind perceiving them them as a whole.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

I don't know that I agree, though I like the thought put into it. My impression has been that Ruin and Preservation are combining not because the Shards themselves are intermingling their Identity, but because Sazed is. Shards in and of themselves do not have a Cognitive presence, it seems to me. I always look at how the mists reacted without Leras to guide them for an example.

Well, splinters have a blend of cognitive and spiritual presence. I don't see why a shard would be any different

http://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/1ced7z/iamstilla_novelist_named_brandon_sanderson_ama/c9fs9lp?context=3

Are Splinters primarily Spiritual?

2) Less physical. More a blend of the other two.

[Chaos]

Wow, that was really interesting to read.  Is this another theory from the mysterious Shardkeeper's podcast?  If so, I can't wait to listen.

 

Yes, it is! When you listen to the podcast you can see we said them in quick succession. They are very complementary.

I do intend to have this edited very soon and posted tonight or tomorrow.

 

Parts of your theory sound exactly like my theory about Sazed's successful convergence of his two Shards into one, so I think this theory is very plausible.

 

I owe a great intellectual debt to that entire discussion for giving me this idea about the Dor in the first place. This long wordy thing is basically me just wanting to describe why Devotion and Dominion could have converged, haha.

 

I think that's a bit of a stretch given the quote. It could easily be read as "accessing the Dor is very regionally influenced".

 

Fair, but fortunately my conclusions work with that idea too. In fact I think that was rolling in my head too, as judging by this sentence:

 

When something changes in the Physical and Cognitive, this can have a reflection in the Dor, so these distinct cultural Identities have an effect on the Dor.

 

So, sure, the Dor is very regionally influenced too.

[Isomere]

I also feel that in order to merge, a fragment must be guided by an intellect, but I don't see good evidence requiring it. Just a gut feeling that a shard without intellect doesn't do much.

 

That being said, very solid theory and internally consistent. I absolutely love the Vase analogy and the grey sand product. 

[Vortaan]

Well, splinters have a blend of cognitive and spiritual presence. I don't see why a shard would be any different

 

Splinters also have personalities. Until we know exactly what the Seons and Skaze are, it's hard to use them as examples of what Shards are like without a Shardholder.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Splinters also have personalities. Until we know exactly what the Seons and Skaze are, it's hard to use them as examples of what Shards are like without a Shardholder.

Seons aren't themselves splinters. The aon at the center is, but the seon isn't.

[Chaos]

Splinters also have personalities. Until we know exactly what the Seons and Skaze are, it's hard to use them as examples of what Shards are like without a Shardholder.

The divine Breath aren't sentient on their own, though, and those are definitely Splinters.

[Vortaan]

The divine Breath aren't sentient on their own, though, and those are definitely Splinters.

 

They are actually a better guide to how Splinters act, I think. Divine Breaths seem primarily Spiritual, with maybe just enough Cognitive to allow visions of the future. Unfortunately because there are no other Shards around Endowment, we can't see how they would mingle with other powers. Also according to this theory, shouldn't the Skaze and Seons start to merge after some time?

[Nepene]

You mention how Sazed is a controlling entity, intermingling the shards.

 

http://coppermind.net/wiki/Shu-Keseg

 

Maybe Keshu managed to do something similar as well.

[darkanimereal1]

You mention how Sazed is a controlling entity, intermingling the shards.

 

http://coppermind.net/wiki/Shu-Keseg

 

Maybe Keshu managed to do something similar as well.

 

This is an interesting idea. I really like how it goes on to talk about this:

After Keshu died Korath and Dereth disagreed about how to achieve this unity. Korath thought that mankind should be united through love, whereas Derethi believed mankind should united through obediance by the rule of a single "Holy" government. This disagreement caused the schism in Shu-Keseg.

 

That sounds a LOT like Korath and Dereth were being influenced by each Shard's intent....

[Nepene]

Thanks. I'll spin a possible scenario, for, back then, Dominion and Devotion were very good friends, lovers perhaps, and they were planning to merge. They encouraged Keshu to spread the word of unity. This cognitive effect partially merged the power of the shards. Did they see themselves as one and encourage Keshu, or did Keshu see them as one and cause them to fall in love? What is the difference? Anyway, it happened, the Dor formed, a union of their power. Odium was worried they would combine and so did whatever to splinter them. Perhaps he encouraged Korath and Dereth to support their shards (an entirely reasonable and moral action) which perhaps would make it easier to splinter them. This encouraged the Shards to fight as their followers started to fight.

 

Dominion and Devotion merged in unfortunate ways and fought. They were splintered by Odium.

 

Due to the splintering and the partial merging they are not easy to reconstitute. Only if all of mankind forgets about Devotion (or vice versa with Dominion) and the shards are allowed to full separate can they be reconstituted. "Then, with all mankind united under Wyrn's rule, Jaddeth could rise from His throne beneath the earth and reign in glorious majesty."

 

Or at least, that is one way to do it.

Edited April 30, 2013 by Nepene

[Leuthie]

They are actually a better guide to how Splinters act, I think. Divine Breaths seem primarily Spiritual, with maybe just enough Cognitive to allow visions of the future. Unfortunately because there are no other Shards around Endowment, we can't see how they would mingle with other powers. Also according to this theory, shouldn't the Skaze and Seons start to merge after some time?

Divine Breaths seem mostly Cognitive to me. At least, when Endowed they bestow primarily Cognitive additions and abilities.

[Comatose]

Well, splinters have a blend of cognitive and spiritual presence. I don't see why a shard would be any different

 

This makes me wonder about the nature of the Dor.  On Scadrial (if I am remembering correctly) Preservation is split up into a cognitive/spritual aspect (the mist spirit), and the physical manifestation of the power of Preservation, found in liquid, solid, and gaseous form in the well, lerasium, and the mists, respectively.

 

If the Aons at the heart of Seons are splinters of the cognitive/spiritual aspects of Devotion (and a something similar is happening with the Skaze for Dominion), then what about the physical aspects of both?

 

I think the physical aspects of both shards are what are merging to form the Dor. 

 

If you look at how the Dor is utilized, it seems to be channeled in a very similar way to how Vin absorbs the mists or the power of the well (especially in the case of AonDor and Dakhor), only with symbols being conduits of power, instead of the practitioner's body.

 

Here's a quote from the coppermind, since I don't have my copy of Elantris with me:

 

In the Jesker, a religion practiced by many Dulas, the Dor is the overspirit, an unseen energy that permeates the world. They believe that Dor is a force that controls the world. Those who follow the Jesker think that the Dor leads those who understand it towards harmony.^[3] It also keeps balance in the natural world. The followers of Jeskeri think that the Dor provides the motivation for all events in nature. It is responsible for everything from water "wanting" to flow downhill to teaching captive young birds how to fly.^[4] The Jeskeri Mysteries, a splinter group, look at the Dor in a slightly different way. Instead of a simple passive energy, they see the Dor as fate. The people who follow the Mysteries perform rituals to try to harness the Dor, instead of trying to become in harmony with it like regular followers of the Jesker. They try to invoke it to bring good or bad luck on other people. How the followers of the Jesker became aware of the Dor's presence is still unknown.

 

If we look at the Jesker perspective on the Dor, we can see how inherently physical it is.  Also note how they veiew it as a sort of "overspirit" or "unseen energy" that permeates the world.  Sounds very Shardic to me.  

 

Anyways, basically what I'm trying to say is that the Dor seems to be a convergence of the physical aspects of Devotion and Dominion's power (perhaps similar to what would happen if an Atium/Lerasium alloy were to be made).  However, this mingled power is cut off from the spiritual and cognitive aspects of the original shards, and thus is, perhaps also cut off from it's intent?  That would explain why the Dor looks to regional based magic systems to "reconnect" with its intent.  With AonDor, currently the most thoroughly explained of Sel's magic systems, the Dor is given a purpose or intent by the Aons.  Without the aons, it is a mindless force, incapable of doing anything, and it's desire to reconnect with an intent of some kind is what causes it to attack Raoden.

 

Why the door was so affected by the crippling of AonDor, despite the existence of other magic systems is an interesting question, that needs pondering if this line of thought is to continue.

 

Now, onto how this replies to religions.

 

 

This is an interesting idea. I really like how it goes on to talk about this:

 

That sounds a LOT like Korath and Dereth were being influenced by each Shard's intent....

 

 

Thanks. I'll spin a possible scenario, for, back then, Dominion and Devotion were very good friends, lovers perhaps, and they were planning to merge. They encouraged Keshu to spread the word of unity. This cognitive effect partially merged the power of the shards. Did they see themselves as one and encourage Keshu, or did Keshu see them as one and cause them to fall in love? What is the difference? Anyway, it happened, the Dor formed, a union of their power. Odium was worried they would combine and so did whatever to splinter them. Perhaps he encouraged Korath and Dereth to support their shards (an entirely reasonable and moral action) which perhaps would make it easier to splinter them. This encouraged the Shards to fight as their followers started to fight.

 

Dominion and Devotion merged in unfortunate ways and fought. They were splintered by Odium.

 

Due to the splintering and the partial merging they are not easy to reconstitute. Only if all of mankind forgets about Devotion (or vice versa with Dominion) and the shards are allowed to full separate can they be reconstituted. "Then, with all mankind united under Wyrn's rule, Jaddeth could rise from His throne beneath the earth and reign in glorious majesty."

 

Or at least, that is one way to do it.

 

If we look at Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth as being religious interpretations of each shard's intent, and Jesker, perhaps, as the following or interpretation of the Shards physical aspect, then perhaps Shu-Keseg is interested in the Shard's unification?  Perhaps Shu-Keseg is what drew Odium to Sel in the first place...

 

Also, we know that Preservation and Ruin combined to form Harmony.  I'm willing to bet that the combination of Dominion and Devotion would have been Unity.

 

Anyways, just some idle thoughts provoked by what I read here.  This is a REALLY great theory, and says a lot about how the Dor works on Sel.  Also I really liked your theory as well KChan, but I probably won't reply to both, since my concerns were more about the convergence of the shards, than about the regional elements of Sel's magics.

[Vortaan]

Thanks. I'll spin a possible scenario, for, back then, Dominion and Devotion were very good friends, lovers perhaps, and they were planning to merge. They encouraged Keshu to spread the word of unity. This cognitive effect partially merged the power of the shards. Did they see themselves as one and encourage Keshu, or did Keshu see them as one and cause them to fall in love? What is the difference? Anyway, it happened, the Dor formed, a union of their power. Odium was worried they would combine and so did whatever to splinter them. Perhaps he encouraged Korath and Dereth to support their shards (an entirely reasonable and moral action) which perhaps would make it easier to splinter them. This encouraged the Shards to fight as their followers started to fight.

 

Dominion and Devotion merged in unfortunate ways and fought. They were splintered by Odium.

 

Due to the splintering and the partial merging they are not easy to reconstitute. Only if all of mankind forgets about Devotion (or vice versa with Dominion) and the shards are allowed to full separate can they be reconstituted. "Then, with all mankind united under Wyrn's rule, Jaddeth could rise from His throne beneath the earth and reign in glorious majesty."

 

Or at least, that is one way to do it.

 

I wonder if choosing a champion is part of how Odium Splinters a Shard? If for example Devotion and Dominion chose sides, not necessarily against each other, but supported Dereth and Korath with some of their power to make their points... 

 

Divine Breaths seem mostly Cognitive to me. At least, when Endowed they bestow primarily Cognitive additions and abilities.

 

How so? Lightsong provides a lot of proof that their Cognitive aspects aren't much changed from when they were normal people. A lot of the Heightenings seem to mimic traditionally divine abilities. Seeing the future is almost definitely Spiritual in nature, to my mind. Perfect pitch and color sense could very well just becoming attuned to the world, or to Endowment in particular. Most important to me though is their ability to heal, which I feel depends a lot upon Spiritual instead of Cognitive aspects in the specific manner they do it. It's worth noting that the main difference between a Returned and someone of the Fifth Heightening is both the precogntive dreams and the ability to heal someone. Both seem primarly Spiritual to me.

[Phantom Monstrosity]

Also the shapeshifting.

[Vortaan]

Also the shapeshifting.

 

Forgot that one. I'll file that under Cognitive probably, but I stay firm on the other two.

[Nepene]

If we look at Shu-Korath and Shu-Dereth as being religious interpretations of each shard's intent, and Jesker, perhaps, as the following or interpretation of the Shards physical aspect, then perhaps Shu-Keseg is interested in the Shard's unification?  Perhaps Shu-Keseg is what drew Odium to Sel in the first place...

 

Also, we know that Preservation and Ruin combined to form Harmony.  I'm willing to bet that the combination of Dominion and Devotion would have been Unity.

 

Anyways, just some idle thoughts provoked by what I read here.  This is a REALLY great theory, and says a lot about how the Dor works on Sel.  Also I really liked your theory as well KChan, but I probably won't reply to both, since my concerns were more about the convergence of the shards, than about the regional elements of Sel's magics.

Yeah. That does sound likely. I know Brandon loves to show the gods influencing the worlds. He may have done the reverse as well- religion influencing the gods, enough to scare Odium.

 

Unity sounds pretty good.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_unity_government

 

It sounds like the sort of word that would go well with Dominion or Devotion. A powerful government working in unity to deal with a common threat, devoted enough to the safety of the people to put aside their differences. The ultimate government. One that leads, but is devoted to its people.

 

It's sorta like what Raoden did. He managed to convince each of the gangs to work with him for a common good. He dominated them by appealing to their love of things and showing good leadership. Though he was somewhat light on the domination.

 

Some relevant quotes from Hrathen on unity.

 

"Eventually. Right now, we will use them. You will find that hate can unify

people more quickly and more fervently than devotion ever could."

 

"My faith is in Jaddeth. a God who wants the devotion of men. A massacre does

not serve Him."

 

From others.

 

Shuden's face darkened slightly, eyeing the gyorn. "I wonder what the great

master thought when his two students, Korath and Dereth, left to preach to the

lands northward. Keseg taught of unity. But what did he mean? Unity of mind,

as my people assume? Unity of love, as your priests claim? Or is it the unity

of obedience. as the Derethi believe? In the end, I am left to ponder how

mankind managed to complicate such a simple concept."

 

Maybe someone like Hrathen could take up both shards, as Sazed did, since he seems to have sympathy for devotion and dominion? We may well see people behave in the next book in such a way that some do things that allow them to better atune to their Shard.

 

Raoden went in the pool of what was probably Devotion, and acted very devoted. He could probably attune to that Shard, though he may face the same problem that Wyrn would hypothetically face with attuning with Dominion that because the shards are melded and Wyrn isn't loving he cannot fully take them up.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Nepene

[WeiryWriter]

While I was writing about this theory over on my Adonalsium theory I realized why the fragments of Devotion and Dominion would combine even without a mind forcing them too.  You attributed it to them both lacking a holder and being broken.  I think it is because not only are they fragments of Devotion and Dominion respectively, they are also fragments of Adonalsium so they would "remember" being together in the distant past.

[askthepaperclip]

I wonder if choosing a champion is part of how Odium Splinters a Shard? 

+1! That quote had been bothering me...why would Odium agree to that? He would if he thought he could win, and get what he wanted from it. Very interesting idea.