19 replies to this topic

[GoldBug]

My question is this. If someone were to use gene therapy on scadrial could someone gain allomantic powers? could this idea be extended further to gain the powers from other worlds?

[Windrunner]

Hi GoldBug, welcome to 17th Shard! You should make a topic in the Introduce Yourself thread so everyone can say hi.

In response to your question, I have no idea. Spiritual DNA (or sDNA as we sometimes refer to it) doesn't appear to work the same way that regular DNA does. So it's possible I guess, we just need more information on the Spiritweb and how it interacts with the rest of the body. It's an excellent question, you should also stick it in The Ultimate List of Questions for Brandon topic. It's a little outdated right now, but it's a really good space for this. I'm sure everyone will be here before long to speculate away. (It's what we do best )

[master]

isnt that what hemalurgy does?

[Commander Spoonface]

isnt that what hemalurgy does?

Essentially, yes. I wonder if Modern Scadrial becomes ware of Hemalurgy and uses it as a form of therapy?

[Tulir]

How would Hemalurgy ever, ever be used as therapy!! It involves killing people, or at least seriously marring their Spiritweb, and then stabbing it into someone else!! I am at loss on how you think it could be used as therapy. I am seriously confused.

[Lantern13]

acupuncture

[InsurrectionistFungus]

How would Hemalurgy ever, ever be used as therapy!! It involves killing people, or at least seriously marring their Spiritweb, and then stabbing it into someone else!! I am at loss on how you think it could be used as therapy. I am seriously confused.

The person who's getting their power stolen/transferred doesn't necessarily have to die, and hemalurgy is by extension, not a necessarily bad thing. It could be used to take powers from willing 'donors' (I imagine that this would either involve people very near-death) and staple those powers onto others. Say, you're a weak coinshot, so you want a steel spike, for whatever reason. Or giving feruchemical gold and/or allomantic pweter to someone who otherwise has no chance of recovery! I imagine there's plenty of potentially positive uses for hemalurgy like that.

[Sweetness]

The person who's getting their power stolen/transferred doesn't necessarily have to die, and hemalurgy is by extension, not a necessarily bad thing. It could be used to take powers from willing 'donors' (I imagine that this would either involve people very near-death) and staple those powers onto others. Say, you're a weak coinshot, so you want a steel spike, for whatever reason. Or giving feruchemical gold and/or allomantic pweter to someone who otherwise has no chance of recovery! I imagine there's plenty of potentially positive uses for hemalurgy like that.

I feel like, if that were the case, you'd develop a sort of black market magic trade industry. Sell your Allomantic powers for a huge profit. If you're poor enough, it'd seem like a pretty sweet deal.

[Teegs]

Were there any examples of stealing powers without killing the original host?

I do like the idea of a black market power industry. Abduct children, snap em, steal powers. Could make a good premise for a book plot or sub plot, especially when Brandon gets to the other trilogies that are to take place in more modern/futuristic times.

Haha, I could even see Wax: "I have a certain set of skills... skills that make men like me a nightmare for men like you..."

Another thing I've always thought about for hemaleurgy, is the idea behind the points at which spikes are implanted and how it could relate to acupuncture. I always pictured them somewhat as chakra points from Naruto or something similar.

[InsurrectionistFungus]

I don't think that there were any examples in the books of non-lethal hemalurgy, but then again, wasn't most, if not all of the hemalurgy performed in the trilogy performed as a result of Ruin's actions? Seeing as his intent is Ruin, it'd be in line with his intent to cause as much destruction as possible with that, no? And it's not like he'd care much for trying to preserve human life, either.

I feel like, if that were the case, you'd develop a sort of black market magic trade industry. Sell your Allomantic powers for a huge profit. If you're poor enough, it'd seem like a pretty sweet deal.

Assuming the guy doing the transplant isn't a psycho out to steal your entire spiritweb, including your human attributes. XD But, yeah, I could easily see such a thing occuring on Scadrial, and I bet donors would be paid handsomely by institutions performing it legally.

. . . I wonder if mental institutions would try to treat patients by use of some combination of human mental fortitude spikes + electrum and/or aluminium feruchemy? This thread has got me thinking about different positive uses for hemalurgy now. Huh.

Also, regarding the original topic, gene therapy, I sohuld think that'd depend entirely upon how the physical DNA and the sDNA interact, and how changes in one affect the other. I think it's hard to know without being given new information about that stuff, really.

[Commander Spoonface]

I think that if modern Scadrial discovers Hemalurgy, they will probably learn to use it in nonlethal ways. It's a versatile art, after all.

[Windrunner]

It scares me though. If enough people realize how Hemalurgy works before they have enough technology to save the lives of those spiked, we could be looking at a metalborn Holocaust. Also there will always be those who won't care about being gentle and keeping those they stole from alive. To the power-hungry they've already served their purpose.

However, I do agree with you that Hemalurgy could possibly be legal if performed in specific ways. Such as powers only being passed by consent, no extortion allowed, as well as the more obvious no killing. I can see a black market developing, selling spikes that were made illegally from Allomancers who sold their powers, similar to selling organs.

[Commander Spoonface]

A metalborn holocaust would be a cool event to document. Maybe it happened with the Southern Peoples...

[Chaos]

But even consensual Hemalurgy would be quite damaging to the donor. While it is possible to do it non-lethally, it still rips off a large part of your soul. In Brandon's words, "You wouldn't be the same." The way he said it Alloy made it sound extremely damaging.

That said, people will do a lot for money, so it could happen. I do believe that being such a donor would be much more harmful than becoming a drab on Nalthis, very much so. But for the right price? Who knows.

[Lantern13]

I would totally donate my abilities to my family if I was basically dead (as long as I was put to sleep first).

[nikomis]

The idea of "consensual Hemalurgy" reminds me a lot of the Runelords books...

[Windrunner]

But even consensual Hemalurgy would be quite damaging to the donor. While it is possible to do it non-lethally, it still rips off a large part of your soul. In Brandon's words, "You wouldn't be the same." The way he said it Alloy made it sound extremely damaging.

That said, people will do a lot for money, so it could happen. I do believe that being such a donor would be much more harmful than becoming a drab on Nalthis, very much so. But for the right price? Who knows.

This is a good point Chaos, I certainly don't think such sales would be very common. If there ends up being a black market it would probably be made mainly with stolen spikes or those made of unwilling victims. Since Allomancy is becoming more and more common it would be easy to find someone who wouldn't be missed.

I think it could happen once in a while though. Especially if people aren't well informed on what happens to the donor. Some kid in China just sold a kidney in an illegal operation for an iPad, so there are some nuts out there.

Edited by Windrunner, 20 April 2012 - 05:11 PM.

[Commander Spoonface]

I can imagine that people would start hiding feruchemical and allomantic abilities to reduce the danger of being kidnapped, spiked, and having those spikes sold to those lacking such abilities. I suppose it would be difficult to hide such a spike from authorities, though, and walking through a metal detector at airport security would be an issue...

[Odium's_Shard]

*beep**beep*

Guard: Well, what have we got here?
Shady Figure: Sorry, that was my.. watch.
Guard: Oh, sure, please can you place your.. watch.. on the desk?
Shady Figure: Ok... *place watch on table*.
Guard: And the rest.
Shady Figure: *sigh* *takes out other metal things*
Guard: Ok, and walk through again please.
Shady Figure walks through.
Guard: Oh, your clean. *hands stuff back, including three foot copper spike*
Guard: Here's your watch, mobile, and your...?
Shady Figure: Crutch. *runs off*

[lil_literalist]

If they do rediscover Hemalurgy, it would definitely change the world, but perhaps not as much as you might think. Allomancers would probably start putting normal, non-Hemalurgic spikes in themselves so that they can't easily be distinguished from people who actually practice Hemalurgy. Laws would be passed that would require a strict sentence (possibly death) for anyone practicing Hemalurgy without the authority of the government. And criminal Allomancers slated for execution would possibly be harvested by the law, and their spikes given to law enforcement officials.

...Perhaps hemalurgy really would flip the world upside down. It's bound to be rediscovered eventually, though. I have a suspicion that Wax's uncle might be trying something like this, and there's still 2 more trilogies in the Mistborn series even apart from the current plotline. And with the Ars Arcanum in the back of AoL, someone is bound to use Hemalurgy when we get to books dealing with the cosmere.