13 replies to this topic

[WeiryWriter]

By Genetic Magics I mean magics that have a genetic component, such as Allomancy, as opposed to magics like Hemalurgy.

So this Theory states that Shards exert a certain radiation upon people occupying the same Shardworld. This radiation causes mutations in the Spiritual(?) DNA that cause the genes to use Genetic Magics.

(1) Magic Systems are created when Shards arrive on a Shardworld.

I don't have the quote off-hand but this is fairly accepted.

(2) Humans gain access to Genetic Magics through mutations in their sDNA casued by Shardic Radiation.

Another accepted fact is that some magics have a genetic component, but not all humans on the Shardworld have that genetic component. So likely the "mutations" occurred over time due to the presence of the Shard, or Shards.

The Feruchemy "gene" occurred in the ancestors of the Terris people. It is documented that they were an isolated people so the Feruchemy gene did not spread to the rest of Scadrial. The Allomancy gene likely occurred in a population that had connections that led throughout the world.

Also Brandon has said that burning Lerasium does not make Mistborn, it is the consuming of it that does so. The Lerasium acts as a concentrated dose of the radiation, causing the Allomancy gene (Similar to Peter Parker being bitten by the radioactive spider). Likewise when the mists are Snapping the 16% in tHoA I think the mists were causing the Allomancy mutation.

(3) Magic system genes lie dormant until outside factor activates them.

For Allomancy this is Snapping. For AonDor it is the Shaod. These only affect those with the gene. So if a bunch of Fyordell moved to Arelon, several generations past, and they had only procreated with other Fyordell, none of them could be taken by the Shaod as the AonDor gene only exists in the Aonic genepool.

(4) Said outside factor is usually in someway related to the magic system's Shard.

It has been theorized that Snapping occurs when a person sees death and rejects it, thereby Preserving their life. Likewise, I was reading a thread in the Elantris forum (don't remember which one) and several members saw that those taken by the Shaod showed Devotion to someone or something. Galladon to farming, Raoden to his people, Karata to her daughter, and Taan to sculpting.



Here I would like to mention member Aiken Frost as he was invaluable in coming up with this theory.

[Wispsy]

could the Sdna just come from the shards when they create humans on their chosen world though? if they create everybody there, everybody there has it. If it was radiation would that not mean that levels of power would keep rising instead of falling as it is diluted, as the shards are still there if it was enough radiation to start the magic system it stands to reason that it is enough to keep increasing every1s connection over thousands of years. but we dont see any evidence of people gaining allomancy arbitrarily, it is kept within the bloodlines, which means it was invested at one specific point, not just through random radiation.


Edit: this response is focused on scadrial and the interactions there btw

Edited by Wispsy, 18 December 2011 - 03:43 AM.

[Kelek]

I don't believe all of the shard magic systems are based on DNA. tWoK magic, or at least shardbinding, is based more on actions. Mostly, I agree with you. Also, I believe that humans were not created by the shards on every shardworld.

[Aiken Frost]

Ah! Awesome, WW! I was thinking of creating an official topic about our theory, but your post is complete and elegantly concise. Thank you!

[WeiryWriter]

could the Sdna just come from the shards when they create humans on their chosen world though? if they create everybody there, everybody there has it.

But it is not just the sDNA, it’s the gene. And it is evident that not everyone has it, otherwise everyone on Scadrial would be an Allomancer. Granted they could have added the gene, but why wouldn’t they have given it to everyone?

If it was radiation would that not mean that levels of power would keep rising instead of falling as it is diluted, as the shards are still there if it was enough radiation to start the magic system it stands to reason that it is enough to keep increasing every1s connection over thousands of years. but we dont see any evidence of people gaining allomancy arbitrarily, it is kept within the bloodlines, which means it was invested at one specific point, not just through random radiation.

Radiation was the closest word I could think of for this effect, but it is not quite perfect. Unlike actual radiation, it is not completely random; else it could continuously pop up. Also I think it is like the gene for light colored eyes, it happened once and spread. Another thing it isn’t the radiation the “started” the magic system, just what gave humans the ability to use it.

I don't believe all of the shard magic systems are based on DNA. tWoK magic, or at least shardbinding, is based more on actions.

I would agree about the not all magic systems are genetic, Hemalurgy was the example I gave. I held off on discussing surgebinding because we simply do not have enough information to make founded decisions. Likewise I didn’t discuss Warbreaker because I have yet to read it. It’s next on my list.

Also, I believe that humans were not created by the shards on every shardworld.

While I’m inclined to think they were, that could back up my theory. The Shards would not have been able to add the genes when the humans were created as Wispsy suggested so the genes would have had to develope do to the Shardic Radiation.

[Wispsy]

Stupid phone :/

Edited by Wispsy, 18 December 2011 - 02:16 PM.

[Wispsy]

There were humans before the shards picked up their shards allomancy/feruchemy is one of the only genetic ones we see afaik, but that is more likely to be sdna instead of normal dna IMO but that doesn't really change anything for this. Preservation and ruin created life based on humans they had seen before (humans like they used to be!) however, we know preservation actually added a little more of himself to people when creating them, this is how they originally got their connection, to the magic. Since then a number of things could have happened to dilute (thru loads of babies) and add to it, we only know the mos recent ones. One of the more recent ones were the 10 beads of lerasium that were consumed by tlr and co. this went and made all of their predecessors much more of preservation then normal people, and it's those people and children who became mistborn and then it diluted into mistings. The next one is when sazed turns spook into the lord mistborn. You can see in alloy of law that all the people more likely to have allomancy are those with the closest relation to spook. Yes I agree it is genetic (whether physically or spiritually) but it is not radiation, it is set moments in time when humanity, or a small part of it, is invested with the magic not just ambient magic in the area from a shard. Then over time it gets more and more diluted down until more is invested again, in whatever way.

Least that's how I see it!

[sententiadominus]

Didn't Brandon say that the ability to use magic was based on your spirit web? Could this force, or whatever it is, be hereditary in the spiritual realm just as genes are hereditary in the physical realm. This would mean that all magic is based on heritage without being genetic, which is what I assumed.

[Wispsy]

Was what I meant by sdna spiritual

[.S.A.M.K.M]

Individuals that develop naturally occuring magical skils, do so from some how interacting with some element of a shard. THis often occurs in the region in which the shard pool exists, if magic is restricted to cetain racial profile, then those people live or come from in which the shard pool lays. Terrismen were from the reqion in which the well of ascenscion existed. returned appear near the city nalthis, shoad appear near the city. magic can happen any where, its just it needs a seed or shape to base upon. But for mortals to be touched by magic, they need to encounter the shard it self.

[Odium's_Shard]

I am going to theorize, in line with this, that it is the Shard's Intent that decides what sort of magic system is thrown up by their presence, whether is is hereditary or caused by interactions with spren.

In my opinion, Allomancy developed this system of genetics because of it's Shard's Intent: Preservation.

So obviously the 'condition' would have to be genetics, whether through your sDNA or otherwise, because Preservation wanted the human race to continue, and to force it to do so, it made the only access point: reproduction.

Ruin's system, Hemalurgy, is even more clear in it's Intent: to break the world into smaller and smaller pieces.

So, thus, the 'condition' is to kill someone with the desired Feruchemical/Allomantic powers and a spike to that effect, and in the Spiritual Realm (I think this has been confirmed) that person's ability is both partially released and partially stored in the spike. So the power has been diluted not through genetics but through efficiency of Hemalurgy.

Also, I think that spikes lose their 'charge' the longer they are without a Host. This would also be explained by the Intent of the Shard.

And so in tWoK, if we assume Honor is behind Surgebinding, then it is fair to anticipate that you must make an oath, like Kaladin, in his case to an honorspren, in order to bind two things. I'm sure Voidbinding and Old Magic work in much the same way.

This would also apply to the Breath system, created by Endowment, which works if you think about it. Instead of garnering Breaths, you could instead word it diffirently, and state that a Breath as magic can be endowed to heal someone or create sentience/contructs.

Edited by Odium's_Shard, 03 January 2012 - 04:44 AM.

[fog]

I really like what Odium's_Shard said back there about the shards' intents..

In keeping with that idea -- that when someone does something in line with the intent of a shard they (at least have a chance to) gain power from it -- Endowment makes people Returned who died sacrificing themselves for others.. (Endowing themselves or their lives before dying and becoming Returned.)

[Odium's_Shard]

This would work in line with the idea that in order to gain Surgebinding Powers, one has to interact with Honour's Intent, in order to Nahel bond with spren and give them sentience, and have to give oaths in the form of Ideals in order to do so. Thanks for the catch!

[Connerjade]

I don't believe all of the shard magic systems are based on DNA. tWoK magic, or at least shardbinding, is based more on actions. Mostly, I agree with you. Also, I believe that humans were not created by the shards on every shardworld.

As an observation, I strongly believe that we will see that forging a Nahel Bond in The Way of Kings actually does have a significant genetic component. So far, the majority of people who look to be in the process of forging a bond with a spren appear to have common roots.
Kaladin would be an outlier, except for it appears as though Tien was preparing to become a KR himself, just he wasn’t yet at that point. This has come up in another thread which I don’t recall where it is. Kaladin is also Alethi, which seems to have had and still does have a preponderance of people capable of becoming a Surgebinder (Likely because that is where all the Knight Radiants lived and therefore, where they likely procreated before the recreance).
Dalinar, Jasnah, Adolin, and Elhokar are all very closely related and all seem likely to become a surgebinder at some point in time.
Shallan is alone, but to be fair, we have very little information on her family in general. We know that her family is effectively crippled, but the only one we have any information about seems too evil to ever become a Knight Radiant (though if Odium works through him, I would not be surprised in the least).
Szeth is someone I tend to leave alone just due to Brandon’s comment that “Something different is going on with him”. Until I know more, I currently just assume him to be the outlier in anything.
So, given what we have, out of 5 people who we have evidence of probably being a surgebinder (Kaladin, Dalinar, Jasnah, Elhokar, Shallan) three are related and four are Alethi. I would assume that Alethi blood makes you more likely to surgebind.
Furthermore, I think it is likely that the Lighteyes are generally descendants of the Knights Radiant. Unfortunately, this is almost entirely off the strength of Hoid’s vague quote:

Perhaps Wit should have been bemused by the stock these people put in something as simple as eye color, but he had been many places and seen many methods of rule. This didn’t seem any more ridiculous than most others. And, of course, there was a reason the people did what they did. Well, there was usually a reason. In this case, it just happened to be a good one.
Sanderson, Brandon (2010-08-31). The Way of Kings (p. 998). Macmillan. Kindle Edition.

It seems a very reasonable choice to give power to the Lighteyes if they are related to the honorable Radiants. Given that four of the five possible Surgebinders are light-eyed, it seems that this strengthens the theory.
Now, I am not arguing that actions are not the predominant determining factor in becoming a Knight Radiant, they are. However, I am arguing that genetics are important, possibly because Bindspren (I don’t know what to call HonorSpren/Truthspren/anything else) generally follow family lines. I think it works like going to an Ivy League College; you can do it if you are from an underrepresented area, but you are more likely to make it if you already have family members/ancestors there.