Theory: Heralds are Expatriate Nalthis Returned (Warbreaker & WoR spoilers)

[ram433]

So after WoR we know that the Heralds got their surgebinding from their honorblades. Pretty safe to assume these were given to them by Honor. However, we have a WoB as well as evidence in the text that they have other powers as well. For example, we know that if they are all still around, they are either immortal or very slow to age. The strange thing about that is why would they have powers both with and without their honorblades? It's pretty clear that Honor was using the Heralds as a way to combat the Desolations. From Taln's comments in the Interludes it seems like that in addition to just fighting they also tried to restore some level of technology and civilization between Desolations too. So for those purposes, the immortality and the surgebinding make sense. They'd need both to do their jobs. But granting them surgebinding by giving them swords seems an odd way to give them power from Honor's perspective. As we can see with Szeth, the honorblades can be used by others and represent a potential abuse of surgebinding. It would make more sense to give the Heralds innate surgebinding that they lose if they abandon their duties, the same way spren do it. Maybe Honor can't though. He have seen that is most of the Cosmere worlds humans need some sort of medium to directly use Investiture. The powers in mistborn all need metal. The Elantrians need some sort of writing. Maybe Honor has to use Invested objects.

Or maybe not. After all, the Heralds seemed to retain their immortality and maybe their enhanced physical abilities. But if so, it still leaves the questions of why to sets of powers? One innate and one not? Linking the immortality to the honorblades would have been smart. It would be harder to abandon them, and it would leave the responsibility open to succession. Tired of being of tortured in Damnation? Find a successor! It seems more enduring model than the one used.

What I come up with is maybe Honor can't make people immortal. All of the Shardholders have different strengths. Also I think there has been WoB that the worlds themselves shape somewhat what magic is possible. If that were the case, where does Honor find himself a set of 10 immortal champions? Nalthis!

The Returned of Nalthis would be sort of ideal for this role. They are reborn with no memory of their lives so they have no baggage to leave behind. They are immortal and physically enhanced. Plus they look like gods. If you want a band of people who show up every few hundred years and need to get people to follow them quickly, having them look impressive would really help.

From WoB on Zahel/Vasher and the comparison of Nightblood to shardblades we know that Roshar magic and Nalthis magic are highly compatible. Its a pretty good assumption that stormlight can function for a Returned like Breath, without the need to drain people. So Roshar is a pretty nice place for a Returned to live.

Also, look at the way each Herald has his or her own sphere of influence. Taln is Herald of War, Jezrien is leadership, Kalak is a forger, etc. Representational deities are nothing new to us, you see them in countless real world cultures, but the only other Cosmere culture we have seen them in is Nalthis with the way the Returned are worshiped.

This theory might explain a few Roshar oddities. Zahel for example. We don't know how Cosmere literate Nalthis is yet, but if Shadesmar-type travel were well known we'd expect a flood of Returned on Roshar. Its possible Vasher was just among the first to discover it. He is way ahead of the curve on magical research. But it might also be likely that while doing research he encountered some record of 10 Returned leaving in the distant past and just decided to follow.

It might also explain Lift's ability to get investiture from food. The royal locks in Warbreaker we know are inherited from Returned having offspring. The Heralds have been kicking around the world for a few millennia, it's pretty likely they would have at least a few offspring. What if on Roshar they inherit something else? The Returned live off Investiture. A descendant might have some sort of DNA that blends a normal metabolism with a Returned metabolism and lets the person get investiture from food.

I'd like to see what others think.

[corwin01]

While WoB says that the Heralds may have other powers not granted by their Honorblades, that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't native to Roshar. I have a feeling not all of the Heralds come from the same place.

Regardless, I like this theory.

Also, Lift being able to gain Investiture from food comes from the Nightwatcher, its her boon.

[ThreeArmedHerdazian he/him]

I like the idea, but hasn't Brandon said that he doesn't want SA to be as cosmere related as the other books, just more of it's own series? I mean, obviously there are connections and lots of Easter Eggs here and there, but if that were true, wouldn't that make Roshar VERY connected to the cosmere? Those who read SA but haven't read Warbreaker would be like "Nalthis... huh?" and I don't think Brandon wants that for SA. I could be wrong, however.

[Aleksiel]

I don't think Honor would have needed to look for someone who was already immortal. The Heralds are immortal because of the high levels of investiture involved with them. I agree they might not be native to Roshar though. 

[trendkill he/him]

The main thing that has me disagree is that Brandon has said that he wants the Stormlight Archive to stand on its own as a series.  I'm not sure if that would be possible if some of the main figures in their history were from another story that he's written.  (Then again, with the appearance of Vasher and Nightblood, who knows...)

 

Having said that, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if they weren't from Roshar itself.  I think it's more likely that they'd be from one of the Shardworlds that we haven't seen than Nalthis, though.

 

Other than those minor things, you really have put together a fairly solid theory.  I don't really have anything in-universe to use to criticize it.

[WeiryWriter he/him]

The problem I see with this is the Heralds are significantly older than the time Returned have been returning.  While an exact time is not given for when Vo, the first Returned, Returned, all indications point to it being significantly less than 4.5 thousand years ago, and we know the Heralds to be far older than that.

[Arook he/him]

Very well thought out theory my only objection is that I don't think honor would have plucked 10 returned from a different shard world instead of just creating something similar that would work exactly how he needed it to.

 

It is easier to build a house the way you want it then to remodel a house to be the same way.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Arook

[ROSHtaFARian2.0]

I would love for this theory to be true, but I doubt that it is for the reasons others have been outlining (particularly the length of time people have been Returning on Nalthis).  Given Brandon's comments on keeping this series relatively contained, I think if the Heralds aren't native to Roshar, their homeworld will be part of the myths of Roshar, which don't fit any of the other known Shardworlds.  Most likely, if there is a degree of truth to humanity coming to Roshar from the Tranquiline Halls, meaning the Halls are another Shardworld, that is where the Heralds originated.

[Vortaan he/him]

Hm. Kind of a tangent, but you know who else on Roshar is effectively immortal? The Aimians. I wonder if there's some Herald blood involved in that?

[ram433]

Good point. I didn't think about the timeline on Nalthis for Returned. I just remembered Brandon saying somewhere that Vasher was intended to be on Roshar even before he wrote Warbreaker. The SA as independent is a good point too, but the Herald's planet of origin does not really need to be a major plot point. They could just be from "elsewhere" for readers who haven't read Warbreaker. In a sense all the godlike entities are from another story anyway(Dragonsteel). But now that I think about it might be a little too "on the nose" to have it fit in that neatly.

[ilikebacon]

What I come up with is maybe Honor can't make people immortal. All of the Shardholders have different strengths. Also I think there has been WoB that the worlds themselves shape somewhat what magic is possible. If that were the case, where does Honor find himself a set of 10 immortal champions? Nalthis!

 

 

This might just be pure conjecture, but: 10 Heralds, 10 core cosmere worlds. Could one Herald come from each world? This could explain their extra abilities, and lend extra weight to the Oathpact. If the Desolations could become a threat to the whole Cosmere, then wouldn't it make sense to create a coalition of every planet's powers?

[PorridgeBrick he/him]

This might just be pure conjecture, but: 10 Heralds, 10 core cosmere worlds. Could one Herald come from each world? This could explain their extra abilities, and lend extra weight to the Oathpact. If the Desolations could become a threat to the whole Cosmere, then wouldn't it make sense to create a coalition of every planet's powers?

Shallash is Jezrien's daughter. Those two, at least, are almost certainly from the same planet.

[Shaggai]

The Alethi hair and how it always breeds true seems relevant to this.

[Ryshadium she/her]

This might just be pure conjecture, but: 10 Heralds, 10 core cosmere worlds. Could one Herald come from each world? This could explain their extra abilities, and lend extra weight to the Oathpact. If the Desolations could become a threat to the whole Cosmere, then wouldn't it make sense to create a coalition of every planet's powers?

I've been saying this for ages.  People keep talking bout Shallash as Jezrien's daughter and why that makes it impossible, but I'm sticking to it  

[Maffu17 he/him]

Do we know that Warbreaker was happening at the same time as the Stormlight archive? Couldn't it be set say 15,000 years prior to the events of WoK? Enough to allow a few cycles of desolations.

I always assumed all the planets will converge to fight Odium hence the space travel from the Scadrial but that will be at least a couple of centuries in the future from AoL.

So unless there's an established cosmere timeline i've not come across the Heralds could be returned. Although it does seem unlikely for the reasons others have stated above. You still get an up vote though

[WeiryWriter he/him]

Do we know that Warbreaker was happening at the same time as the Stormlight archive? Couldn't it be set say 15,000 years prior to the events of WoK? Enough to allow a few cycles of desolations.

I always assumed all the planets will converge to fight Odium hence the space travel from the Scadrial but that will be at least a couple of centuries in the future from AoL.

So unless there's an established cosmere timeline i've not come across the Heralds could be returned. Although it does seem unlikely for the reasons others have stated above. You still get an up vote though

 

Warbreaker takes place between the first Mistborn trilogy and The Way of Kings, which is a gap of only 340-ish years.

[corwin01]

Just because Shallash is Jezrien's daughter doesn't mean she couldn't have been conceived on a world hop, so they still could represent all 10 Shardworlds.