Mr_Doe Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 So in my readings of WoK and the previews of WoR one of the scenes that I kept coming back to was the part where Navani talks about how the Dawnchant is a dead language and no one can translate it any longer (right after she witnesses Dalinar's visions for the first time). However if this was the first language spoken by humans, wouldn't the more current human languages be similar, much in the way that languages resemble their roots in real world languages? The part that really got me thinking was that no one could figure out how to translate it, and though it was only mentioned briefly I got the impression that there had been some effort put into attempts to translate it. Given this, and the fact that the "Dawnsingers" seems such an uncharacteristic title for any group of normal humans we have seen or heard of so far on Roshar, I thought perhaps the references to singing were in fact talking about the Parshendi. This would explain the very different structure of the language, as well as the strange name. In addition it would explain the discrepancy between the ancient, primitive humans we see in the visions Dalinar is sent by Honor, and the fabled civilized "Dawnsingers" of the ancient stories etc. I don't have any actual evidence, but it seems to fit. What do you guys think? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbereth Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Keep in mind that English came from old English. The first lines of Beowulf go like this: Hwaet we gardena in geardagum beocyniga brym gefrunon. Hu a athelingas ellen fremedon. Oft Scyld Scefing sceafena phreartum, monegum machtum, medosetleah ofteah, egsode eorlas. (It has a lot of special characters in it that I couldn't do. Also, it's more pronunciation based, because I don't actually have the book on me to do the correct spellings.) Can you understand or translate that? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoser Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Why would anyone translate Beowulf to old English? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbereth Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 For a fraction of a second I thought you were serious. That was rather scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everstorm Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Next you know they'll be adapting Lion King in medieval Denmark... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbereth Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Ouch. That would certainly be interesting, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vortaan Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 Reeaaallly..... http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1548-the-second-most-baseless-parshendi-theory/?hl=dawnsingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christophalies Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 So in my readings of WoK and the previews of WoR one of the scenes that I kept coming back to was the part where Navani talks about how the Dawnchant is a dead language and no one can translate it any longer (right after she witnesses Dalinar's visions for the first time). However if this was the first language spoken by humans, wouldn't the more current human languages be similar, much in the way that languages resemble their roots in real world languages? The part that really got me thinking was that no one could figure out how to translate it, and though it was only mentioned briefly I got the impression that there had been some effort put into attempts to translate it. Given this, and the fact that the "Dawnsingers" seems such an uncharacteristic title for any group of normal humans we have seen or heard of so far on Roshar, I thought perhaps the references to singing were in fact talking about the Parshendi. This would explain the very different structure of the language, as well as the strange name. In addition it would explain the discrepancy between the ancient, primitive humans we see in the visions Dalinar is sent by Honor, and the fabled civilized "Dawnsingers" of the ancient stories etc. I don't have any actual evidence, but it seems to fit. What do you guys think? Well played. This theory of yours completely changes my mind about the Dawnsingers. I have always thought the Dawnsingers were the very original spren. The ones Adonalsium left behind when he visited Roshar before the Shattering. Now I am not sure what/who I think the Dawnsingers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Doe Posted February 13, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Reeaaallly..... http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/1548-the-second-most-baseless-parshendi-theory/?hl=dawnsingers Ah, thanks! I didn't see that in my search. However, there the theme seems to be that the Parshendi are both the Dawnsingers and the voidbringers? I assume this was written before the reveal chapter with the Parshendi Shardbearer? Also in response to the how different old english is from english, keep in mind that while we might not be able to read it well, we would recognize words, and given some time, probably be able to read it. A better example would be latin and one of the romance languages, while they appear much different, some words are the same or very close, and general structure is similar. Edited February 13, 2014 by Mr_Doe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elbereth Posted February 13, 2014 Report Share Posted February 13, 2014 I know that we got stuff from Latin or French, but that was fairly recent. I picked the actual oldest language, not just languages we borrowed heavily from. Keep in mind that Beowulf was only written at most 1300 years ago. We know that the Dawnsingers were at least 5000 years old. I seriously doubt that they could understand any of it. Do note that I think your points are all valid, and this is certainly a viable theory. I just wanted to point out that language changes faster than you might think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chlehrma Posted February 16, 2014 Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) So if the parshendi are the dawn singers, then they are also likely native to Roshar and may predate humans. This might mean that the "tranquiline halls" were actually Roshar prior to the appearance of humans and that the humans were actually the invaders that forced the parshendi into damnation to burn in a place that is hollow and forlorn. It might also explain why the dawn cities had a sound to their shape since the parshendi are a musical people. Edited February 16, 2014 by Chlehrma 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Doe Posted February 16, 2014 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2014 So if the parshendi are the dawn singers, then they are also likely native to Roshar and may predate humans. This might mean that the "tranquiline halls" were actually Roshar prior to the appearance of humans and that the humans were actually the invaders that forced the parshendi into damnation to burn in a place that is hollow and forlorn. It might also explain why the dawn cities had a sound to their shape since the parshendi are a musical people. The second part is a good point that I had not considered, but yeah... lots of implications if it were true. As to the first, I was under the impression that there were two planets and Roshar was one and whatever the other one is called is known to humans as the Tranquiline Halls (see the wiki on shardworlds). I assume that means damnation is the void (space i guess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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