kaos

Figured I'd bring some attention to this and this thread is a bit more active than the fan fiction corner. It's a Quest (Reader driven narrative game) set in Era 2 of Mistborn. Check it out if you like.

Hi. I am currently doing a quest (a reader driven interactive narrative) on 4chan's /qst/ board. I figured a good way to find interested participants would be to advertise at the hub of the Cosmere fandom. It is currently running right here: https://boards.4chan.org/qst/thread/1047081

The pitch is a bounty hunter during Era 2 of Mistborn is going to a town named Crowther to try and find revenge.

Here is the first Thread so you can read it and see if it interests you: http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/979396/

And my twitter where I post when the threads are live: https://twitter.com/WhistlerDM

Thanks for checking it out!

Does Scadrian metal, with it's abnormal investiture, have special properties? For example, can you make a hemalurgic spike out of metal from Roshar or is a Scadrian metal neccessary? Does an Allomancer need Scadrian metal to burn or would Nalthis metals do? Ditto for Ferrings.

9 hours ago, Secrets said:

I believe Brandon mentioned one  time that mist, stormlight, etc. are a certain form of investiture. Returned possibly could live on other forms of investiture if they were able to convert it somehow, but that would be a ridiculously insane hack.

The biggest point towards this is, in my opinion, the fact that the only thing separating the kandra from mistwraiths is the 'block' the Lord Ruler put between their cognitive and physical realms. Brandon has said it's more that they're mentally handicapped than non-sentient. As far as I know it's not the stolen spiritweb that bridges that gap as much as the particular investiture. Blessings may need a specific form of hemalurgy, but I'm not sure why breaths would be unable to substitute as long as you used the proper command. 

So, in order to crate something with hemalurgy you need to charge a spike with a bit of someone's spiritweb ripped off from them, correct? There have been mentions as to how the spikes and breaths have similar effects, i.e. losing a breath would be like getting spiked, though much less harmful. So if they have similar effects would it be feasible to give a mistwraith a breath with a specific command like "Become a kandra" or "Connect the cognitive and physical realms of this creature" and have it work to produce a kandra without spikes. Also would this consume the breaths like it does with Lifeless or would the kandra become an awakened object. Is it even possible to awaken something that is already alive, if not fully sentient?

I capitulate on that point then.

 

That said, the boots scene. Had Kaladin been the lighteyed equivalent, it would probably have gone the exact same way. Shallan doesn't scam him out of his boots because she's lighteyed and he's darkeyed, she scams him out of the boots because Tyn is sitting there, egging her on and putting her in this hilariously awkward position and it's funny. It's not even important that Shallan's eyes are light for the role she's playing (I don't think Unkalaki princesses, if they even really exist, are necessarily lighteyed). So it is unfair for Kaladin to throw this in her face as an example of her behaviour towards darkeyes, because that wasn't actually really a factor.

It is completely fair for him to throw that in her face. First off he doesn't know she was being egged on. From his position it was all her, so it was completely fair for him to assess her from that interaction. And if he was lighteyed (enough to outrank Shallan anyway) he probably wouldn't even be on that patrol. And even if he was lighteyes and on that patrol Tyn might have changed tacks because pissing off a lighteyes of high enough rank could have stormed up their plans later. One of the reasons they thought they were safe was because he was of lower rank than them in their society and when they infiltrated higher society meeting him was almost a non-factor.

Basically one of the reasons they did the whole scam was that it had a good reward (training for Shallan) for minimal risk (who cares what a darkeyes thinks of you or the fact that you are inconveniencing him). 

So yeah, it's fair of Kaladin to view that as Shallan being a lighteyes jerk who thinks nothing of preying on darkeyes. Because that's exactly what she did.

i must say im kind of stunned, which values ppl expect in this book(maybe in fantasy/midieval times in general).

do you realy think that most ppl of high society would apologize and respect "normal" ppl - today in the real world?

 

there was a split society in amercia just 50 years ago - segregation.

there is still a caste system in India today, where ppl murder their children because of caste violations.(ok its outlawed but it still happens)

just look at many none western societies.

 

this is not a perfect world scenario =)

 

 

would you apologize to a very rude person?

Kaladin is a very rude person in WoR. he might be nice to his friends, but others? lighteyes?

hes even called out for it by several ppl.

 

a King does not apologize to a commoner. it would be odd the otherway around.

You aren't wrong, but we are judging this from an outside perspective. From our perspective everyone is more or less equal as 'people' though we tend to err on the side of the main characters. We are those nosy friends that always judge people and their situations.

But, y'know, their fictional. So it's okay.

Personally I think this stratification of society is pretty interesting and I hope Brandon continues to reference it and doesn't just let people... get away with it I guess. I think the biggest transgressor as far as being an chull for no reason is probably Shallan. I think it's a bunch of little things that show how she fundamentally doesn't view darkeyes on the same level as her and other lighteyes. I think the most glaring point of this is that she calls she calls Kaladin bridgeboy throughout the entire book, right through the end. Adolin does this too, but about halfway through he stops using it as an insult and starts using it as a term of endearment with Kaladin. Shallan meanwhile keeps this slightly patronizing tone the entire time (at least that's the impression I got). My biggest problem I think is that while Adolin recognizes that he is being unfair and just has some misplaced aggression he is taking out on the bridgemen Shallan seems to keep thinking she is being perfectly fair and balanced when she really isn't.  Kaladin was a bodyguard and he spoke out of turn a lot and was hostile and rust, but that doesn't excuse treating him less respect. I guess what pisses me off about the situation isn't that they were insulting him, but that they were insulting him in part because he was lower on the social ladder.

tl;dr Adolin and Shallan were both dicks to Kaladin and Kaladin was a dick to them back. However Adolin is more justified as his and Kaladin's mutual dickishness is more a personal problem which they sort of work out between them while Shallans dickishness stems from her looking down on Kaladin (maybe subconsciously), being the primary aggressor (the boots), and is never brought up by the narrative or remarked upon and is largely ignored.  

I'd recommend a sapphire color, as that is the color of the Windrunners. Upper arm seems like a good place. I know nothing about tatoos though so, you know, grain of salt.

Considering how Syl feels about Cryptics and Their opposing points on the table I sort of assuming they represent the opposite ideals, while the orders near each other have something in common. For example Elsecallers were probably pretty close to opposite in temperament as skybreakers, while what's right and what is the law often, if not exclusively, overlap.

I enjoyed your paraphrase very much. Would you be willing to do this in other threads? Drop in with a relevant paraphrased epigraph?

Sure I guess. 

Mistborn Spoilers.

The fact his fiance is a terrible person to Marry. I mean technically infidelity isn't even against the rules of their marriage. She included a clause for it in their relationship contract.

To be completely honest I like Steris and Wax's relationship (what little of it we see) way more than most fictional relationships. There are piles of true love stories and love overcoming crap. This is one of the very few instances where two people are marrying for convenience, know it, and are completely okay with that. They aren't antagonistic, they both benefit, and even if they don't love each other they at least like each other enough that there isn't going to be some big blow-up or comeuppance for either of them because neither of them are evil or portrayed that way in the story.  Personally I really want to see this rather unique relationship develop, rather than another love story. 

Or he decided to stop banging his wife once he had a male heir. Maybe he was unfaithful... with dudes. I'm just saying that it's a possibility.

Yeah, there's nothing specifically barring it. I'm just wondering A. what it would bring to the story at this point. (besides representation, which is good, but could also be better served with other still living characters) and B. Why would it matter. (It wouldn't, besides giving a reason for Navani to not be sad over Galivar's death, which could be an important future plot point, I don't know.)

This is my reading of why Navani liked, but didn't love, Gavilar. From what we've seen he was a good hearted man determined to forge the Alethi into a kingdom that would resist the desolation. But he "wasn't who people thought he was". Maybe Navani knew more of the Sons of Honor than she has let on, but I have a hunch that Gavilar wasn't straight. He had a very close relationship with the conspicuously single Amaram.

I'd disagree with the idea that he was good-hearted. He was trying to return the gods and cause an unnecessary Desolation in the first place in order to, judged by what Amaram believes, restore the dominance of the Vorin Church. Basically murdering hundreds of thousands of people in an attempt to restore a church that was corrupt. Sounds kind of like an cremhole to me, but I admit we don't know the full story yet.

@Aminar

In Alloy of Law Ranette, who gives Wax Vindicator is confirmed as a lesbian.

I don't have a problem with Galivar being gay, I just don't think it matters whether or not he was. It's not impossible, just unlikely I think, given his actions.

"I'm going to strangle that- She cut off, feeling a stab of depression. She had ended up killing Tyn."

I also took it as a bit like a drug. Dalinar mentions when he sucks in some stormlight at the climax how easy it would be to get used to the feeling, and Shallan and Kaladin have taken to drawing in stormlight for little to no reason (Shallan to keep from feeling cold when like a paragraph earlier she says they need to ration stormlight and Kaladin trying but failing to draw in some when he was running the bridge).

Even if spren can't nahel bond to parshendi it's likely that the spren is still attracted to whatever is happening to Eshonai. Maybe it's some kind of resistance spren or something? Either way, it might make it possible for her to morph out of stormform if it's been following her around.

Isn't Tavanast the Honor shards former owner?

I think you mean Taravangian. (In regards to Moelach and Nergaoul in to OP)

1. While I'd like to note that I think T's plan for the suicide of half of his city was stupid, I think you're underselling the effect it would have on the population if everyone were a few IQ points higher. Also, IQ is 50% (or more) heritable, so it would also be far more dramatic than just a "few points".

 

 

2. I'm confused by this assertion. You're saying that because people are now smarter on average, criminals will now have stupider prey?

 

Your first point on societies only working if someone is at the bottom seems to be a statement without anything backing it up. Could you expand more on this point?

 

 

3. I think it has less to do with raw brainpower being useless and more that Taravangian's curse makes him insane (until he's Diagram-level, then he's insane enough to actually make decent ideas).

1. You may be right. I admit, I don't know how effective only smart people breeding would be. I assume that IQ would be less a factor than personal motivation, interests, etc. People are often different and I personally believe that circumstance contributes as much to IQ as parentage. I don't have any hard evidence to back it up though, and the feasibility of the plan is, again, non-existent. I admit I could be wrong on this point though.

2. I am saying that if you managed to kill off all the criminals in a generation people would lose the habits that kept them protected from criminals. Then someone would notice the opportunities he would have if he became a criminal and bam, criminals are back. Unless a group constantly deal with a problem the group would lose the skills it needs to deal with the problems. If you don't practice you can only get worse. Of course this applies to criminals as well, and the new generation of them would probably suck at it. But as they got better and society got better at repelling them you would just reach equilibrium again, with the added bonus that whatever magical way you got rid of them in the first place probably won't work again as they will be prepared for it.

As for society thrives on someone being at the bottom, well, and this is American society specifically I am talking about, resources are scare. If they weren't scarce we could, conceivably, have a perfect society. However since there is a limited amount for everyone everyone is going to be fighting for what they can. And people who have the most resources have the ability and inclination to protect their resources and gain more. However the only way to do that is to, proverbially, take it from someone else. Taking it from someone with as much resources as you is harder and more dangerous so it is much easier and expedient to take a little from a lot of people under you. If everyone at the top does this, and they will because they have no reason not to, the people at the bottom are left with less resources to change their situation and have to use the resources they do have to just survive. It's sort of a Catch 22. You can only get a lot of resources if you already have a lot of resources. This is hella simplified (for example I didn't mention how it's necessary for a stratification of society (i.e. The Incredibles Principle: If everybodies special then no one is.) If everyone is rich the no one is or vice versa for poor.), but I think you can sort of get the gist of what I am talking about.

3. Valid interpretation.

In regards to your 5th question, in one of the epigraphs it mentions a lightweaver who had trouble with the truths he had to speak because he wasn't really comfortable with them. 

Specifically (paraphrased): Malachin was hindered because even though he was completely baller at killing people he sucked as a Lightweaver. He wanted his oaths to be easy and straightforward, but because his Cryptic buddy was an esoteric douchebag and wanted him to speak 'truths' and be 'self-aware' he was totes boned.

   

Well the Diagram does account for the Knights Radiant - or, at least, for Surgebinders. And the sterilization of undesirable people actually is a fantastic idea for society. Think about it - for hundreds of thousands of years, it's been a struggle for human beings to survive. Only the strongest did. Now, in the last few hundred years, life has become a cake-walk. You can be a drug addict with six children by four different men with no job and just expect a government handout. In the past, this sort of person would have died. Now we support them, and it's bad for the species. In fact, not only has Survival of the Fittest been worked around - we go to great lengths to ensure the survival of our physical and intellectual inferior. It may be trendy to say, "Oh, yeah, that guys evil! How mean of him to want to better the lives of those who deserve it at the expense of those who don't rather than better the lives of those who don't deserve it at the expense of those who do! What a terrible guy!" But the fact is, it would be inarguably better for the species if the dregs of society were removed.

Not really. What would happen is that you would, at best, bring up the average temporarily. But then things would just even out again. People would still [REDACTED FOR LANGUAGE] end up as the "dregs of society" whether through their own fault or someone elses. People would still take advantage of one another, fortunes could still flip surprisingly because life is volatile and while predictable to some extent still has random elements.

Take Tarvas suicide plan. Even if everyone below a certain curve did take themselves out of the gene pool there's no garuntee that the next generation would necessarily be better than the one before. At best you would increase the average iq by a couple of points maybe. But even if it worked perfectly you would eventually just feel the same as you did when you started and be forced to "move the goalposts" again to the point where .

Plus society (or at least most societies) only work if someone is at the bottom. By getting rid of the bottom you won't necessarily make everything beter, you would just end up bringing "bad" higher up. And human nature would still shine through. Killing off all the criminals just means there is an opening for more criminals to take a bigger slice of the pie with less competition and stupider prey because they got used to life with no criminals. And eventually things would just even out again. 

Smart Tarva is arrogant and also in many ways stupid. His plan was unfeasible and the fact that he was too stupid to see all the ways it could wrong just underscores how mistaken he is about how useful raw brainpower is. Unless you get so smart you can successfully predict the future I guess. You would have to take into account human nature to make the Diagram as spot on as it apparently was meaning super smart Tarva was at least smart enough to realize his own shortcomings and compensate for them. 

Ugh, I hope that's coherent. Also in retrospect I don't think your post was about Tarva and his relative intelligence at all? Whatever.

Parshman and Parshedi comparison. Or a approaching highstorm/everstorm.

You know, I'm not sure if some one else mentioned this but where did Jasnah get the Stormlight to Elsecall back from Shadesmar? Are there highstorms or their cognitive equivalent there? Do Surgebinders not need stormlight in the Cognitive realm?

It was implied she was there for at least a month, maybe more so her spheres probably would have ran out.

Personally, I think that would be awesome and amazingly profound. I now hope that this is the case.

I think it would just make him indistinguishable from braindead. He'd be hella compassionate but also unable to form coherent thoughts and probably incapable of speech. Kind of useless.

@kaos, I assume you've checked your Spam folder?

 

Yes I did. I tried about 4 separate times resending the verification e-mail, but no dice.