Jerich
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On 11/24/2017 at 4:46 PM, Watchcry said:
Shallan is at the fourth oath and hasn't manifested plate yet so maybe it depends on the order.
I personally believe that the lesser spren work under the bonded spren to form the plate.
I think Shallan has summoned plate in the past and has shut out the memory...
From page 160 of OB...
QuoteHe grinned. “You said that Jasnah was a Radiant too. Women, gaining Shardblades. It’s weird, but it’s not like we can ignore it. What about Plate? Do you have that hidden somewhere too?”
“Not that I know of,” she said. Her heart was beating quickly, her skin growing cold, her muscles tense. She fought against the sensation. “I don’t know where Plate comes from.”
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14 minutes ago, Stromblessed said:
Well now that's depressing . But according to Shallan, Jasnah is in her mid thirties in TWoK so she must be 36-37 now ?
The Roshar year is longer than the earth year. She’s almost 40.
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Right now, I don’t think there is an age appropriate main character for Kaladin that is out of the creepy zone. I’ve heard that a general rule of thumb is that the youngest you can date and not be creepy is your age / 2 + 7.
(Assuming year at the end of Oathbringer is 1175 and Roshar year is 1.1 Earth years), here are the ages of our main radiants and their min max non-creepy dating range.
Kaladin 24 (19 - 34)
Jasnah 40 (27 - 66)
Lift. 16 (15-19)
Adolin 27 (21 - 40)
Shallan 21 (17-28)
Shallan is on the lower edge of Adolin’s range but acceptable. Lift is too young for Kaladin. Jasnah is too old.
Six years from the end of Oathbringer, things change some.
Kaladin 30 (19 - 46)
Jasnah 46 (30 - 78)
Lift. 22 (18-30)
Adolin 33 (21 - 30)
Shallan 27 (21-40)
Kaladin can now date either Lift or Jasnah without it being creepy. Lift is on the low end of his range and Jasnah is on the upper end.
Maybe Kaladin should stay single for a while?
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Are we sure that Shallan’s flashbacks were reliably narrated? What if the Shallan persona is just one layer of the onion and the real Shallan is buried several identities deep? Is it possible that she could be someone who used illusion to take over Shallan’s identity or even be something else like a Kandra, a world hopper, the leader of the ghost bloods, or even Shalash?
Perhaps the narration is reliable, but incomplete and Patterns real crime is that he convinced a light weaver to assume the identity of young Shallan and use light weaving to conceal the switch until she had grown old enough for looks to diverge. Perhaps Shallan’s Mom attacked her because she realized the switch?
Anyway, that’s probably too crazy a theory:)
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Nightblood: Do you to slay some evil today?
Ym: No, I thought we could heal some urchins.
Nightblood: Dammit Ym! I'm a Sword, not a Doctor!
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That argument applies to common troops, but half shard Lords would definitely spring for aluminum plating on their armor if it gave them a fighting chance against full shards... That this is never mentioned as an alternative along with the fact that even a provincial daughter of a minor noble like Shallan knows what aluminum is, means that shard blades can cut aluminum.
The guards could, though, be made of some aluminum alloy unknown on Roshar... Perhaps duraluminum?
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My guess is that she will turn out to be a dustbringer considering she takes her bravery / obedience to extreme levels. I think she will be paralyzed, but stormlight will eventually heal her.
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The second time Adolin meets Szeth, he hears a voice telling him to duck. Was it his sword or just self talk?
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Lift and Shallan have been bonded for much longer than Kaladin. I think that is the biggest difference.
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What if the next truth Shallan says to level up her raidiant powers is a proclamation of her love for Kaladin? Perhaps she is fighting alongside or Adolin or Kaladin and needs the extra oomph to save the day?
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I'm new here so this may have been discussed before, but one of the things I am most curious about is how the different Spren in the book will get along. Will they become friends, rivals, something more...? Here are some of my thoughts.
Syl
Syl seems incredibly curious about Pattern during the arena scene.
He heard Syl humming nearby, but couldn't find where she'd gone. "Syl?" He asked. She kept hiding from him here.
There was a Cryptic at the fight,” her voice said softly.
“You mentioned those before, didn't you? A type of spren?”
“A revolting type.” she paused. “But not evil, I don't think.” She sounded begrudging. “I was going to follow it, as it fled, but you needed me. When I went back to look, it had hidden from me.
Syl is also one of the most charismatic, curious and intelligent characters in WoR. I am pretty sure that Brandon removed her from the Shallan / Kaladin chasm arc simply so the Syl / Pattern interaction wouldn't take over the chapters.
Syl-->Pattern
Unfortunately, Kaladin is about to fly off into the wild blue yonder towards Alethkar and then will probably go to the capital. I would not be surprised if he doesn't reunite with Shallan at all until the end of the next book. That being said, I think that Syl and Pattern could hit it off fabulously once they get together and work through their initial disgust of each other. Both are some of the most visible Spren companions we have seen so far and a relationship between them could even act as a Romeo / Juliet style friendship among opposite factions. This is a trope, but it is a trope that works.
Syl-->Glys
The fact that Syl never mentions Glys throughout WoR demonstrates how shy Renarin's spren is. To be fair, though, I think Renarin having a shardblade didn't help in this regard. Right now, Renarin is the only one of the four with access to the progression (growth) surge. I think this will fascinate the surgeon in Kaladin and he will start to help Renarin learn to heal people. Once this happens, Syl's natural friendliness will draw out Glys and they will become friends.
Unfortunately, this won't probably happen until the end of the next book at the earliest due to Kaladin's jaunt to Alethkar
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Syl-->Ivory
Jasnah and Kaladin won't start the next book near each other, but I think the chance that they will meet up in Kholinar to be likely. It would be just like Hoid to help engineer such a meeting. If so, Ivory and Syl are both rebels who have “betrayed” their Spren type. This common ground (as well as the stylishness of Ivory and the wiriness of will help Syl) draw out the normally shy Ivory.
Who knows... perhaps we will even see a strong friendship or relationship develop between Kaladin and Jasnah? I don't think age will be as big a deal for the KR because stormlight will most likely extend their lives. Jasnah is probably biologically in her mid / late twenties.
Pattern
Pattern's intelligence progressed during this book at a rather fast rate. He seems to be genuinely curious about everything and this curiosity will most likely lead him to interact with the other spren.
Pattern-->Syl
Already discussed in the Syl Section
Pattern-->Glys
Both Shallan and Renarin share the Illumination (Illusion) surge. This, makes them natural study partners as they strive to perfect their skills. In addition, I think Shallan will need to learn to fight in the next book and Renarin will make a better sparring partner for her than Adolin. Primarily I think fighting against a live shardblade will be more comfortable for both Spren. I also think that Shallan might be embarrassed to learn fighting from Adolin because she likes him.
Both of these two items might Allan and Renarin interact frequently, which would give their Spren a lot of chances to interact. Since Glys is most likely also a mental savant like pattern, I think the two will become thick as thieves and we will be rewarded with a lot of smart people talking over everyone else's heads and brainstorming off of each other banter. I think they may also compare notes on training their humans.
Pattern-->Ivory
I think Ivory might be slightly scared of or intimidated by Pattern based on the one time Shallan sees her in the first book. It is interesting that Ivory is visible to Shallan but immediately disappears once the door opens to reveal Pattern. Would he have stayed visible if only Shallan was there or did he sense Pattern? That being said, Shallan and Jasnah are likely to spend a lot of time together once Jasnah finally makes it to Urithiru. Perhaps these two spren might become friends then... I still think Syl / Ivory is a more likely pairing, however.
Glys
We haven't met Glys, but he/she is probably something of a savant given Renarin's powers. I think his/her most likely friendship match in the next book is Pattern.
Glys-->Syl/Pattern
Already discussed in a previous sections.
Glys-->Ivory
Both are shy considering we don't see much of them throughout the book. I think this fact will help Glys draw out Ivory from hiding. I also think that Renarin will spend a lot of time with Jasnah once she finally makes it back to Urithiru because she will want to study his Spren and Renarin seems to like her a lot.
Glys-->Adolin's Shardblade
If anyone can help awaken Adolin's shardblade, it will probably be Glys / Renarin with their Progression Surge. I think that (along with the correct words for the shards order) will be necessary for this (along with other things). I think this may be unlikely, but it would probably be the biggest possible “Hells Yeah!” moment for me in the next book if it does.
Ivory
Ivory is many things... stylish and shy:
She found Jasnah herself just outside, reaching toward the doorknob, her left hand cupped before her. A small figure made of inky blackness-- shaped like a man in a smart, fashionable suit with a long coat—stood in her palm. He melted away into shadow as he saw Shallan. Jasnah looked to Shallan, then glanced toward the floor of the cabin, where the pattern was crossing the wood.He is also a rebel, yet filled with anxiety...
It climbed up the wall, then slipped down, then climbed back up, then slipped down again.
“Imbecilic?” Shallan asked.
“Perhaps it simply needs more time,” Jasnah said. “When I first boned with Ivory--” She stopped abruptly.
“What?” Shallan said.
“I'm sorry. He doesn't like me to speak of him. It makes him anxious. The knights' breaking of their oaths was very painful to the spren. Many spren died; I'm certain of it. Though Ivory won't speak of it, I gather that what he's done is regarded as a betrayal by the others of his kind.”
I think the other Spren are going to have to take some time to win Ivory's trust, but he will be a witty character with dry humor once they do earn it. I am expecting at least a couple Jasnah POV chapters next book and am highly looking forward to them.
Ivory-->Glys/Syl/Pattern
I think Syl and Glys are the most likely friendships with Ivory. Pattern, being a noble among Spren, will probably intimidate him too much for him to gain his trust.
Wyndle
Wyndle reminds me of the long suffering dry-humor butler from English Sitcoms. I think he would jump at the chance to actually have a conversation with another Spren if one of the main characters come into contact with Lift. I think one of the more mobile characters (Jasnah / Kaladin) is most likely to meet her in the next book.
Stormfather
I can't see the Stormfather condescending to interact with the other Spren except for perhaps showing disdain for Pattern / Shallan and being somewhat protective of Syl. This may all change if another Bondsmith appears.
Nightwatcher
Could the next bondsmith bond to the Nightwatcher? If so, I think the most likely candidates are Sigzil or Navani. Of these, I think Navani would have the most potential for awesomeness. That would put an interesting twist on her and Dalinar's relationship.
How do you think these Spren will respond to each other? Do you think we will have a Spren POV in the next book?
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Thank you all for the warm welcome!
@Morsk - I apologize for not explaining that term and just assuming everyone knew it. I should have just typed it out in the question even though I said MP to Brandon. I interpreted his reply to mean that the purpose of the Skybreakers is to watch the Knights Radiant and to make sure that they are living within the bounds of law. They are the people that protect the rest of humanity from corrupt KR.
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I think that the world/religious view of any author act as a filter through which the story is navigates from potential to written form. Both the untapped potential divinity of the human spirit and sacredness of human relationship struck me as themes that are also central in the LDS church the first moments I started reading Sanderson's. Brandon also writes spiritual experience well. This is something I find many authors fail at.
That being said, the same themes are also prominent in Baha'i, Mystic Christianity / Islam / Judaism, many strands of Eastern faiths and New Age / Neo paganism. I think one of the beautiful things about good fantasy is that it transcends religious boundaries and evokes something primal in the human spirit.
I think it takes a special open-mindedness of belief, a great deal of empathy for others, and a strong connection to mystery of life to be a great fantasy author. Luckily, Brandon seems to have this.
- Jerich
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Thanks Jerich, it was great talking with you as well! And the other 17th Sharder you talked to was JamHeretic. (-:
Yes, JamHeretic reminded me that the Elantris word I was looking for was Hoed so I could write my questions for Brandon. Thank you Jam Heretic! I also met a few other Sharders, one of whom recorded the entire book-signing so we should be able to get a transcript of everyone's questions.
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I'm just going to state the obvious since alot of people seems not to understand the implied meaning of the first oath being the same for all KR "Life before Death" the choice to preserve life over death to be the defender instead of the attacker to attack without the need to defend is to be death the killing in the defence of one's self or others is to choose life. Adolin attacked Sadias and infact a surprise attack at that. With the intent to kill and succeeding this means he chose to bring death rather than life no matter past circumstances this means he cannot uphold the first oath which means he will not be made a KR because the storm father will ultimately refuse his first oath insighting this act as reason. Also is it just me or does the fact that Kaladin now has the honor blade of the wind runners the same one that was planted in the ground at the beginning of the first book the one that is wielded by the king of heralds kind of telling in the cases of what we can expect.......
I was worried about this too, but according to what Brandon said to me today at the Seattle signing there are orders of the KR that would not only be completely okay with what Adolin did, but that they would applaud it. Just like the Skybreakers are the Military Police of the Knights Radiant and the Windrunners are like the Secret Service, there are probably some more Knights Errant / clandestine orders. Every big organization needs them!
Luckily, you don't have to take my words and memory for this. Brandon's comment was being recorded and the exact wording of what he said will most likely be posted by another Sharder.
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It was a lot of fun to meet you in line today at the signing. I am super excited to read the Nightblade book and see Syl help Kaladin with her non-combat forms. She seems like one of the most brave and intelligent and grounded characters in the book. Out of all the Honorspren, she is the only one with the gumption to directly disobey the Stormfather and then took a huge risk in bonding with Kaladin.
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I finally decided to make an account after reading this site for a few months and being thoroughly impressed by the intelligence and politeness on these forums.
Here are three questions I asked Brandon today in Seattle as he signed my books (I am shocked he didn't RAFO me):
Question 1: Shardblades vs Hoed (Major WoR + Elantris Spoilers):
Me: Is the Hoed from Elantris similar to the state of a shard blade?
Brandon (slightly paraphrased, because I am writing these from memory): Similar, but probably not exactly in the way you are thinking. It is kind of like two diseases caused by different bacteria. Both are caused by bacteria, but they are not exactly the same.
Me: Is it possible then to reawaken a shard blade if that blade is wielded by someone who speaks the oaths of a Knights Radiant?
Brandon: (Thinking)...Yes, but it would be extremely difficult. The spren in a shardblade are not trapped in a state of mid-transformation like the Elantrians. They are stuck in an agony cycle after having a significant portion of their consciousnesses ripped out of them. The Nahel bond is what allows Spren to think on material plane and that has been torn away. It would be like having a data jack installed and then having someone come up to your head and rip it out of your head.
Me: So you would basically have to replace the part that was lost to wake them up?
Brandon: Exactly.
Question 2: Function of the Skybreakers (Minor WoR Spoiler):
Me: Are the Skybreakers kind of like the MPs of the Knights Radiant?
Brandon: Hmm... (Thinking) ... Yes. That is actually a really good analogy.
Question 3: Adolin and the Knights Radiant (Major WoR Spoiler):
Me: Are there radiant orders that would take someone like Adolin even after what he does at the end of Words of Radiant?
Brandon: I am not going to say whether or not Adolin will become a Knights Radiant, but yes, there are several orders that would be very happy with what he did.
Me: Like the Skybreakers or Dustbringers?
Brandon: The Skybreakers would probably not want him because he broke a law, but there are other orders that would think he completely did the right thing and be very happy with him.
Trickonometry (who was waiting in line behind me): Like the Dustbringers?
Brandon: (Didn't say anything but looked up at him, smiled and half nodded)
My thoughts and Interpretations (Major WoR Spoiler):
My dream for the next book was for Kaladin to give Adolin the Windrunner Honorblade and then for them to galavant as a bromance duo accross Roshar. Haflway through the book Adolin would reawaken his shardblade, getting Dustbringer powers and then having four surge-binding abilities. Unfortunately, I don't think (given Brandon's reaction) that this will happen.
I still think Adolin will become a Dustbringer (since Skybreaker is ruled out) in the series and that Kaladin will give the Honorblade to either him or Dalarin, but I think we may have to wait until the second half of the series to see a shard-blade reawakened.
If Adolin does reawaken his Shardblade, I think he will have to team up with someone with access to the regrowth surge while he says the oath words.
Thanks for Reading!
Jerich
P.S. It was nice to meet several of the 17th Sharders like Trickonometry and a charming Superfan who gave me her name which I promptly forgot... I will add it here if she posts to this thread:))
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Small theory (Training planet)
in Cytoverse
Posted
I am not sure how outlandish this is, but I have a small theory. What if the world of Skyward has been set up specifically to create a race of super pilots? Krell would be humans or AI designed to provide conflict and incentives to train. The machinery was created so that they had training materials. Spensa’s father graduated out of the program and was taken to be a pilot by the “Krell.”
Do you all think this trope is too common for Brandon to have picked it?
- Jerich