Numb

This has been suggested before but one of the biggest arguments against this is on his bad days he can barely function as a human being. If that was his way of saving humanity than it seems a bit suspect. My personal idea is that the intelligence is indeed the way of saying humanity but that he is working off a false basis much like how Dalinar thought he was meant to unite the Alethi high princes when that isn't the case. Mr. T says he will "unite them" which is from whatever visions Gavilar received. He/Gavilar could have misunderstood what that meant and now all his intelligence is being used based on that misunderstanding. He's even against the Radiants which I assume is because they would supersede his uniting the people under him. The second idea I had is that if this thread idea is correct than maybe his capacity to save mankind is in fact if he doesn't do anything. Maybe by getting involved he only further complicates the issues at hand. This has some flaws though

Vin is basically deity though. Would they really use her bones like that? Somehow I doubt that. Copying Vin's manerisms seems more plausible than actually using her bones. I'm still hoping Vin will show up one day again so maybe that's why I don't want this :<. Iyatil definitely seems to have Vins mannerisms but not her skill(Vin is persceptive enough to realize something is off with Hoid so I don't see how a crude illusion that doesn't work properly could fool her).

Doesn't Pearl sleep with Clod sometimes. Pretty disturbing behavior when he's just a lifeless but being a Kandra would be whole new levels of ewww.

The difference between Jasnah/Dalinar and Kal is that Kal has ALWAYS wanted to protect people. It's not like he suddenly changed during his life like Dalinar has. We have WoB that the bond starts forming long before it becomes concrete after saying the words. You can only surgebind once you have said the words it seems but that doesn't meant the bond wasn't forming before. I think Kal was "forming" bond with Honorspren as a concept but only when Syl came and he said the words did he actually form the bond with a specific spren, that spren being her. Lift is still a child and we know next to nothing about her. It's entirely possible that Jasnah actually is similar to Kal. She was a different child remember so maybe she was forming the bond already back then. She seems to have always had that desire as a scholar which could be part of her spren. The issue here is if the bond itself and the nature of the order is separate. I don't think so. If you embody that order you also form a bond, the two are essentially the same thing.

The gems are needed in order to summon/dismiss the blades. They would just walk around with them before the people discovered using gems. Reviving the dead spren seems a bit confusing. Pattern suggests it would be possible if the Radiant that killed said spren was alive but at the same time WoB suggests that it might be possible to revive without needing the specific Radiant. I'm thinking that it may be like when Syl died and Kal "revived" her by renewing his oaths. The dead spren come partially alive when by syncing the 10 heartbeats to summon the blade, maybe it's possible that someone saying the oaths while the spren is partially alive could revive the spren via some kind of quasi-bond. I don't think having another spren inserted into a dead blade would revive them. That seems like spren cannibalism and judging from Syl's reaction to the blades I doubt the revived spren would think kindly of the person that did that.

I thought they broke their Oaths because they couldn't handle it anymore without Honor around. They talk about how now humanity has the radiants so they'll be fine which doesn't seem to suggest that they broke it due to sprenish motivations surely otherwise they would have also stopped the radiants? So hard to really theorize anything when we either have little information or the information we do have is corrupted/misunderstood.

The spren ship mutation is spreading throughout the lands. We need to find a cure before it's too late. Oh Shipfather save us

That isn't the only conclusion you can make from that. Shardplate change slightly over time to fit their user more. Blades we know get partially revived when summon so it's possible that they to change over time to better fit the user. Men no longer fight giant beings so having huge shardblades doesn't make much sense but since they aren't fully alive they aren't able to change to the degree Syl does, instead they just become a bit smaller. That's my 2 cents. I do think it's possible that there are a lot of shardblades we don't know about AND they do adapt over time.

Yes sorry my mistake let me change that. He tells Jasnah her shardblade is of little threat to him. Got mixed up there

I believe the stormfather refers to the Listeners as "the ancient ones" in the Eshonai interlude but it could have been elsewhere. Also the Listeners talk about the spren "betraying" them for the humans because the humans could give them what the Listeners could not. The listeners/Amians also seem native to Roshar since they are both similar where as humans are completely different. There's nothing to suggest that non-humans also migrated to Roshar. Add all these together and it suggests that the Listener forms existed before the shards came. The meddling the shards did most likely has to do with giving them their own kind of spren(Stormspren for example) and the making of the unmade.

The issue with this is that modern fabrial all use trapped spren. I don't really see the Radiantspren accepting that idea. The Radiant fabrial seem to be based on a different concept. The listeners also didn't know about using trapped spren until Humans made fabrial which also suggests the Radiants never made fabrials this way.

I feel it depends how bound Odium is. Ruin I think would never have done such a thing if he wasn't bound by preservation. When you have as much power as a shard why would you think of doing something so small. People will extreme power tend to always want to use it in extreme ways instead of smaller smarter ways. That's also why Vin was such a better allomancer than anyone else because she grew up without power so when she got power she used it in smarter ways than those that were accustomed to it. Everyone knowing the church altered text is actually something that would work against Odium if he was the one altering text. The reason Ruin was so successful with his alterations is that people believed in the original text in the first place. Only one man seems to have ever figured out what Ruin did before he was freed because noone else was looking for inconsistencies. Unless Odium did alter and the church figured it out so their response was to make everyone believe that they altered text so no text was viewed as credible. Seems a bit far fetched for me. I hope I can leave semi-spoilers like that since the title says mistborn spoilers. If not please tell me so I can hide them.

He isn't banned I think from what we have seen. Hoid when talking to Jasnah says how he is no threat to her and blames his "upbringing" as the reason. Sounds more like something happened in his past that left a profound mark on him in such a way that harming people is something he no longer can do. This is all conjecture though so guess we'll see.

To my knowledge Adolin doesn't know that the Thrill isn't a natural state but instead caused by a malicious entity. It would make sense that he would think anyone exhibiting similar symptoms must be under it's effect since he believes that's what what you feel in battle. I imagine Alethi society as a whole has been warped a lot by thinking this is natural. Stormform in general seems all about extremes along with violence/aggressiveness. It makes sense to me that such a listener would appear to be under the influence of the thrill to an Alethi.

We don't know if Eshonai feels "the thrill" or is just merely more reckless/violent in her current form.

Do we have any confirmation that he was receiving the same visions? We know he did have visions and that Mr. T mentions the "I will unite them" which is the same incorrect thinking Dalinar initially had but do we know anything more? The main issue I have is how on earth did Gavilar keep his seizures a secret when it was impossible for Dalinar. I get that Gavilar was way sneaker but surely at least one of his close relatives would have known about the seizures during highstorms. Looking at Gavilar's actions and the fact that it seems no one "good" actually knew about the visions I'm starting to believe they weren't entirely the same and/or possibly tainted by odium in some way. Eshonai specifically says Gavilar shouldn't have told them his plans about returning their gods. He just didn't understand that they didn't want the return of their gods. Unless you mean Eshonai was lied to or didn't understand Gavilar? Feel we should rather trust second hand source until we know more. It also lines up with why he was so interested in the Listeners when no one else was.

I don't think it's right to call them liars but I also don't think it's right to not call them liars. They merely seem able to make the lies into reality.

Might as well add in there that Hoid may be unable to harm people or it's extremely difficult for him to do it. We have WoB on this and Rock's god story.

Well Gavilar wanted to bring the desolations back it seems. That goes completely against the Radiant ideal of Journey before Destination. Sounds very odd for someone that into WoK to want something so horrible to occur.

I also find it really weird that he told the parshendi. Why would he think they would welcome the return to them being "slaves" when they were the ones that abandoned their gods in the first place. Seems he either didn't actually know as much as he seemed to or something else was going on. Could Gavilar have been under the influence of Odium and not Honor(Stormfather sending visions)?

It could be that current plate blocks surgebinding but actual radiantplate doesn't? I think I read somewhere that the old plate didn't have gems much like old blades don't have gems. Another option is like Allomancy effecting things in the blood. It's not that it can't, it's more that there's a lot more resistance. The shardplate could be similar in that Szeth Surgebinding just isn't strong enough to overcome the natural resistance plate has but a radiant can do it.

Aimians have blue finger nails and crystalline blue eyes so their blood could be violet or blue I think.

If it was a surge I think Wyndle will understand it better. His logic is that lift is merely able to touch him in some tangle way which she shouldn't be able to. Wyndle may be wrong but without anymore information it's the best explanation we have.

The Mistborn books definitely. Well more The Final Empire. That scene with Vin holding her dress I'll never forget.

I'm also rather confused about what they talking about. I assume it's not about Spook in HoA?