Spark

So.. at this point there are so many societies, factions and agendas that it seems almost every interesting character is hiding something which again is only hiding something which is... you get the point. A character I haven't really read much about here (I hope I didn't miss it) is Sebarial - well, actually him and his mistress combined. I found them extremely interesting. He gives off a very Hoid-ish feel. Which I guess is easily accomplished by being witty, laid back and enjoying to see others struggle for words. Anyways, as far as the Highprinces we know go he's one of the rather entertaining ones. And he seems rather smart on top of it. So yes, I do think there's more to him - whatever that may be. He knows to well how to keep appearances (I mean who the hell chills out during an upcoming Everstorm?) Any thoughts? Oh, and can anyone remember/quote what Jasnahs notes say about him?

You're right, of course. It could be any radiant. I was just thinking of Kaladin because we've so prominently heard him giving the oath. I have to disagree with the poetic part though. Or at least with the "word" part of my own comment. Because: I think we agree that this refers to Kaladin protecting Elo. Since we know he didn't say that out loud, we know that death rattles are thoughts put into words via the medium rather than words repeated. As for the poetry part - this actually also sounds a bit too poetic for Kaladin. I'll go out on a limp and say it "will definitely" occur. And I like that thought - the thought on the quote referring to that, not the Recreance itself.

Hm... to me that sounded like Kaladin's last words/thoughts. Alas, in a post-Syl, majorly-screweded-up and world-about-to-end sort of death situation.

I'll so have to bookmark this, otherwise I'll be lost by the end of SA3 at the latest. Thanks, guys.

I don't know. I can't help but still think that the "most important words" go beyond the usual Oaths. There was too much emphasis put on that. Then again, I wouldn't know which words could be even more important than the Oaths in general. Maybe some sort of final Oath? The Heralds' Oath or something like that? Still, just a feeling.

Welcome. And is it just me or does the guy in your signature banner somehow look like Tom Cruise?

Your standpoint on this will in the end determine your KR order. Just saying. ; )

In the end, "I wanted to save the world" is always a good argument. Then again, that's what's everyone in SA seems to be up to these days. I didn't see it coming, I wasn't waiting for it. But when Sadeas gave his little speach, my first reaction was: "I do NOT want to hear that record again in the next book." Turns out: I won't have to. So yeah, as it's been said before: Him being dead is fine. But murder is murder, and I'd be more than surprised if Adolin got away with it.

I wanna see that being made into a movie.

Game aside, I have to say Shallan was disappointing. After all, her training with Jasnah, her having to take apart every argument and in turn form theories based on convincing arguments obviously makes her the perfect candidate for the whole "Convincing things they wanna turn into other things"-operation. Ah well, I guess almost being killed in your sleep, having your mentor die in front of you just to then almost drown can throw you off your game a bit.

Well good for you. And we all love sticks, really. But we love sticks with ice-cream on them even more. You wouldn't even have to lose anything.. you'd be gaining something, wouldn't you?

I don't think they are. At least in the case of Taravangian and probably Dalinar they seem to create a sort of balance - either one of perspective or an actual one. I get the feeling that might be true at least for most of the boons/curses.

I pictured it like a roll/wrap.. so that would be the Dürüm version.

Hmm.. well, when Syl was about to die, she first slowly lost her consciousness, flitting about like any windspren would do. When we first see Pattern - and that's after years of denial and after Shallan speaking her first truth, he's pretty much the same - in his most reduced form, "dumb" as Shallan perceives him. And that must already be a step up from whatever was before Shallan spoke her first truth - if he was around at that time. Now, that could be because for the first time, Pattern is actually learning. It could be that Pattern didn't learn anything when Shallan was a child - maybe she didn't teach him, maybe they were only together for a short while before she shut down. Yet if that's the case, then that would mean Pattern turned into a Blade without having gained real consciousness. That would be the equivalent to Syl turning into a Blade during the early stages of Bridge4. So again there seem to be different requirements. Edit: Same time, similar thoughts.

I need your help with something I’ve been wondering about. I’m probably just overlooking things. Anyway, here goes. So.. Syl more or less died when Kaladin went back on his ideals and seemed to regress instead of progress. What it took to bring her back seems to have the been his remembering and believing his already spoken ideals and formulating the next one - and even that almost wasn’t enough. Now on to Pattern. At some point in her early childhood, Shallan bonded him, which means she formulated the first ideal, otherwise she wouldn’t have been able to use him to kill her mother. As we now know, Shallan shut down after that. Lied to herself so intensely, that she completely denied Pattern and her powers. She even went on to kill her father. Denying everything should lead to the same outcome as Kaladins case: Almost killing her Spren. In WoK, Shallan got in touch with her powers and her Spren again by speaking a truth. A truth, but not the truth that lead her to deny Pattern. Yet at the beginning of WoR, we see Pattern gaining consciousness (actually re-gaining it). It’s not until the end of the book that Shallan speaks the truth that actually mattered more, stops denying what happened and remembers the once spoken ideal. At that point, however, Pattern has already long been happily flopping around. So.. there actually seem to be different requirements for killing and saving a Spren from the brink of death. Or am I missing something?

I feel mobbed. ; )

Don't we still have the Parshendi dissenters on the lose somewhere around the Shattered Plains? I can see them taking in the abandoned Parshmen if they ever come across them. I definitely expect some Parshendi/Parshmen to withstand the Everstorm, however that might work, simply because I don't see Brandon irreversible turning an entire race evil. There's too much potential there. As for the Alethi not killing off the Parshmen.. it's rather unsettling, isn't it? To have the analytical thought that genocide of an entire people would have been the smartest precautionary move?

Well, nothing is confirmed, but it's specifically mentioned that Wit accompanied Taln to the Shattered Plains - and took off running before they arrived there.

Love your post and completely agree. I wanted to give Adolin a pat on the back at that "See, I KNEW there was something wrong about him" moment. And while I read your post I just realized that Kaladin pretty much had the same arch with Shallan - just with a little bit more hugging...

Hey there and welcome. Well, the first question would be: Have you read other books by Brandon and are Cosmere aware?

Hey there. Gamma Fiend said it all. If you want to get into it, you should have a look at this thread: http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/6453-full-book-spoilers-talns-honorblade/

I've read Brandon's other stuff but I get the problem. On the first read, I was half asleep through half of the book (that's what happens when you can't put it down), so at first I didn't make the Wit-metal-connection in the flashback. I made it later, but I imagine something like this to be frustrating if you simply don't know Brandon's other work. The thing with Brandon and with SA is: He is such a detailed and cunning writer, that you have to pay attention to minor details while reading. Trying to get his clues is half the fun, cosmere or not. So if you read something that in some way seems significant ("why is he poisoning himself?"), I imagine it to be a letdown if that point is never picked up again or explained. The metal is the ONLY part of the book I can think of, though, that creates that problem. As for nightblood - it does feel out of place, I have to say. Of course, that might only be because I know what nighblood is. But a talking sword.. or maybe it's the way it talks.. I can't put my finger on it. Yes, you can explain it within the world of Roshar, name it a powerful shardblade or whatnot, but to me, it doesn't feel completely right anyway. Of course, then again, that's exactly the sort of feeling you should have when encountering an "otherworldly" object.

Well, it is predetermined by some "God" though, if you want to look at it this way. Yes, the Radiants can be a symbol for freedom of choice and will, but they can also be seen as proof of Vorinism, at least in part. Just think of the whole concept of choosing your Calling: In a way, Kaladin (spearfight) and Shallan (drawing) can be seen as the epitome of that concept. Maybe the concept of choosing your Calling, following it through and eventually being chosen by the Heralds is exactly that: The path to becoming a Radiant - exactly the entity, which is branded as a traitor within the same belief system. But that's the interesting thing: The Radiants are both, proof for those who believe and proof for those who question. The riots, as Walker pointed out, already foreshadow what's coming next. But personally I think that the Radiants' role, especially Dalinar's, will not only be to unite Highprinces and Kingdoms, but also to unite people and church.

I was wondering about that, too. It all felt a bit like "Oh well, moving on." On top of that, she's part of the royal family. Shouldn't there have been official mourning ceremonies or something like that?

I am even more curious to see the Radiants completely upset the religious structure. While I can picture the Alethi Highprinces - hunger for power aside - to eventually somewhat accept the Radiants as a new authority simply in terms of power, I can not yet picture how they'll fit into the the current beliefs of Vorinism. Maybe I missed it, but we did not get any religious reaction to Dalinar naming Amaram Radiant, did we?