Vaspin

It's in The Way of Kings. Ch. 59 "An Honor"

Upon further thought its not even up to the KR or Heralds. It would be dependant upon the spren of the order. What do they "need" from the KR to fully actualize the bond to maximize what it is they get from the bond. I understand it allows them to think and maybe experience (?) the physical realm but is that the only benefit? They are simply intellectual hedonists? I imagine there is more to it we have yet to discover.

One of the Heralds did setup all of the Orders, it was Ishar. But to as to why there are 5 for each, it was said each Order had the same the same first Ideal and 4 following Ideals which varied amongst the individual Orders. They were called the Immortal Words.

Anything Shallan did from her childhood days is irrelevant. She lost it all after the trauma of her mom's death and she started living in denial. So any truths, or personal growth, she shows towards becoming a true Lightweaver starts at the beginning of the plot.

That being said, her first one is most likely when she confessed she was afraid, the next is her admittance to murdering her father. And the last would be when Pattern confronts her on how her mother died.

I think it's clear Honorblades are in the possession of the Heralds. Based on what Brandon has said on the matter and evidence provided in the book. There also isn't enough information to hypothesize the bond between Honorblades and Heralds is somehow broken

I think by nature of what they are, you can't de-bond an Honorblade. I think they are the Blades of the Heralds forever. Even in death they never stopped belonging to them.

I'm not sure of this, of course, but the Honorblades are connected to the Oathpact. It's why they left them. We don't know the specifics of the Oathpact, but they believed they would be released from it if they abandoned their Blades.

 

 

Q:  If someone is using an Honorblade, would they be able to bond a spren?
A:  It is indeed possible.  It does not block it.  Good question.  You do not have to bond Honorblades.  Honorblades work with whoever holds them.

That supports the idea of no one bonds to an Honorblade. They aren't shardblades so we shouldn't treat them as such

Nitpick: "Taln"'s eyes did not change color from dark brown to tan when he was holding a Shardblade, and changing your eyecolor seems to be a general characteristic of held Honorblades. I wouldn't be so sure Taln has returned or that if he did he came with his Honorblade.

 

 

At the end of WoK when Taln shows up Brandon makes a point to mention how the honorblade doesn't  vanish as he faints. Since the only reason an honorblade would disappear is said to be upon the death of a Herald, it is almost certainly his honorblade

The reason they are called dead spren Blades is because they lack the mind of a Radiant. There's a symbiotic relationship between the two and I think it only works in one specific way. No substitutes will suffice. 

As for the WoB on this:

 

 

Q:  Is it possible then to reawaken a Shardblade if that blade is wielded by someone who speaks the oaths of a Knights Radiant?
A:  (Thinking)...Yes, but it would be extremely difficult.  The spren in a Shardblade are not trapped in a state of mid-transformation like the Elantrians.  They are stuck in an agony cycle after having a significant portion of their consciousnesses ripped out of them.  The Nahel bond is what allows Spren to think on [the] material plane and that has been torn away.  It would be like having a data jack installed and then having someone come up to your head and rip it out of your head.

That is the definitive answer and explanation on why what you propose is unlikely to work.

I think you're confusing what I am saying. I was using Kaladin's experience to show how he did not have a bond with Syl as a child, but he was always naturally attuned to the wind. Whereas Adolin has shown nothing in the way of evidence to him forming a Nahel bond as of yet or any specific nature to one of the Orders. I'm not against Adolin being able to become a Radiant, but everyone has their own path to walk to Radianthood. No two Radiants have comparable backgrounds

And also you can't assume the bond is formed just because they have the propensity for it. The spren actually have to be in the Physical Realm for it to occur. They didn't all arrive at the same time. From the way it seems in the story the order goes Pattern -> Ivory -> Syl -> Wyndle( didn't include some of the others because there isn't enough information to discern their meeting with the characters). So while you say Kaladin always portrayed those attributes he couldn't have been bonded to Syl always. And from the way Syl acted in the early parts of Way of Kings it seems very likely she had not been with Kaladin for any substantial length of time. She still seemed to be acting like a regular windspren.

But what you're confusing here is he never said anything about surgebinding. He's talking about the winds in a spiritual sense. Part of what is so great about Kaladin's growth in this book is how thorough it is. He resolves his issues with his blind hatred to all lighteyes, he realizes what being a Windrunner is about, and he understands his nature. He mentions a few times in Words of Radiance about the "winds." He knows he doesn't actually interact with the wind when he surgebinds, but he identifies with it personally. It's why we saw him, as a kid, get sad and depressed when the Weeping occured, and later again during the book. This relationship to the "wind" is not dependent on his bond with Syl, it has to do with nature as a Windrunner.

In the first book, there were a few questions about how spren interacted with the Physical world. Were they attracted to specific phenomena or did they cause it? It's widely assumed spren are drawn to things which are connected to their individual nature. During his flashbacks, I can't really point to any instance to him having any attributes of leading and he has one instance of trying to protect his brother. But is shown to have both of those when he's in Amaram's army, regardless of what his situation his. Can't say the same for Adolin he's not all that obedient to his father in The Way of King's, he's constantly challenging Dalinar's judgement and there isn't any special form of bravery he demonstrates. 

You also have to remember 3 other surgebinders( Dalinar, Jasnah, Lift) did not receive their abilities in their childhoods. 

Kaladin didn't attract Syl when he was younger. Or at least there is no evidence which supports this. He may have always known he was a part of the wind, but I don't think Syl had even left to find Kaladin when he still lived at home. If you recall, even though Shallan had regressed in her spren bond she was still aware of being able to communicate with spren. In Kaladin's flashback there isn't anything like that happening. The earliest she mentions of being around him is his time in Amaram's army and then he sees her when he is a slave. Same thing with Dalinar, he had no connection with the Stormfather until after his brother died. He most likely was the exact opposite of what Radiants were in his warmongering days.

It's very unlikely Adolin was attracting any spren at the beginning of the story. We have seen people attracting spren at all ages, Shallan being the youngest and Dalinar the oldest. Age isn't what is required or the changing of your way of life. You have to actively be representing the Ideal which corresponds with the correct spren in order to attract one. 

I think the person has to break before a bond can form. You may be able to still attract the spren based off of how spren act towards human emotions. But in order for the bond to form something has to broken inside so the spren can come in and do what it does.

Ah, okay I think I can agree more with you theory based on that Argent.

@Shaggai

Fabrials are a tool to which a person can use stormlight in its...base form I guess. Like how a squire may have access to stormlight but not the surges. Fabrials only use stormlight as a power source. But it has a lot more potential to it. In the case of surgebinders they have access to the fundamental forces and Shardblades have the ability to affect the cognitive realm. What I was trying to say is that fabrials are nothing like that. None of the one's we've actually seen so far have shown to have any relationship with the natural world, unlike surgebinders, Blades, and Plate. 

Investiture to me is more than just being able to harness the force(i.e. Stormlight) as just power. If someone/thing is Invested it should have the capability to affect one or all three realms(Physical, Cognitive, Spiritual)

I think it's 100% because nothing else makes sense. Fabrials seem too limited in what they are able to accomplish. If it turned out to be another spren it would just seem weird considering how I think the Nahel bond works. There's just too many similarities between Shardblades, surgebinders, and Shardplate to say there's another outside factor involved, considering how the information has been presented to us. It seems unnecessary. 

I guess I'm leaving out part of why I hold to this. It has to do with my theory of what happens when a person, possessing the Nahel bond, speaks more Ideals and how Investiture seems to occur on Roshar. In short a Radiant. would perhaps becomes a pseudo-being of Investiture as they speak more oaths. So in my head it makes sense for them to create their own plate

@Argent

Nightblood seems to be one-of-a-kind thing and something like that could only be done with the use of Breath, but I think Breath is unique and special in how it works. It does lend proof to your point, though

Crafting the armor just doesn't seem to match how it's portrayed in the story. It leaks Stormlight, it has the ability to fit its wearer, resistant to Investiture, it seemingly reacts to the will of a Radiant, and is also capable of reforming itself. Some of these could be attributed to a spren, but the only spren known to act in this manner are those involved in a Nahel bond. 

But I guess it comes down to how we see the nature of this particular magic system working

Plate is inherently Invested because other forms of Investiture have no/limited effect on them. You can't voidbind/surgebind the Plate and in every other instance besides Plate, Shardblades effortlessly cut through everything. This relates to Mr. Sanderson Investiture vs. Investiture situations

 

 

Things with innate Investiture are much more difficult to affect by any of the magics at all.  Which is why it's very hard for Szeth to bind people or lash people whering Shardplate to the ceiling.  In the same way Allomancy wouldn't be able to push on it without some help.

You see this also in Words of Radiance when Adolin realizes he can't be affected by the Listeners stormform voidbinded lightning. Since there's proof of Plate being an Invested object its not far-fetched to claim Radiants acquired it from being bonded to spren, because it's where they get the ability to surgebind and a Shardblade.

I'm also not quite clear on your point about the Ryshadium. For one, we have no evidence to say they were used by the Radiants. And also, I'm not saying they wouldn't use fabrials, however, Shardplate seems to be of an entirely different caliber, wouldn't you agree? Unfortunate as it was Sureblood fell to the Voidbinding and the half-shards were pitifully against the honorblade Szeth wielded.

@Shaggai: You seemed to be in the camp of an additional spren being involved in the creation of new Plate. If it's more nuanced than that I apologize, but both arguments seem far-fetched considering what we know of Plate and Investiture on Roshar is handled

I think it's almost entirely safe to rule out the option that Shardplates are the Radiants' spren manifest in the physical realm. I, however, maintain that it's still very possible that the Plate is either a fabrial or a fabrial-like construct, but powered by the living spren, not one trapped inside a gem + Stormlight.

It doesn't work thematically though. Being able to Invest Stormlight through spren of Honor/Cultivation is about what do you stand for. Holding to specific principles is what allows you to Invest and realizing them to the fullest brings you to the pinnacle of surgebinding abilities. Not through an external means would you gain another level of Investiture. Also fabrials are a invention of men, while Plate is an inherently Invested object. If it were to be true, it would be a deus ex machina type of situation I think

I went back to read this section to see if there was a stronger clue to prove Adolin had absorbed Stormlight. I didn't see it. Other times we saw other surgebinders actively using Stormlight they took a breath and the Stormlight was drawn from a sphere into them. I did, however, catch something very important. After Sadeas finally admits he's out to ruin Dalinar, Adolin snaps! This may be the moment where Adolin does what every other Radiants has done before him, he breaks. Snapping is the precursor to humans being able to Invest. In this world its what allows the spren to form the Nahel bond

Blades don't need a gem, but the gem forms a minor version of the Nahel bond with the wielder. That's how it can be summoned and dismissed.

I think the same can be said for the Plate and why it has gems in it. But instead of forming a bond, the gems allow the plate to reform because it lacks the original way in which it did so

I have a problem with both theories. 

People who say Shardplate is made from spren aren't considering that spren are already take the form of Shardblade( weapons). Syl, herself, becomes a Shardweapon and interacts with Kaladin in that way. He even makes note of how she retains the physical nature of whatever form she's in( she flies as a ribbon, walks as a person, floats as a leaf). Also, if the spren were somehow able to be both blade and plate why wouldn't Kaladin have an interaction with the "dead" plate, like he does the dead-spren Shardblades. None of it adds up.

And trying to say it's a fabrial also seems wrong. The entire Nahel bond is a matter of Investiture. You breath in Stormlight, spren become weapons, it's an organic process. In-book and Mr. Sanderson both have evidence which points towards magic systems not being able to directly effect Invested objects. Voidbinding and the Surges have no effect on Shardplate. Not to mention when an actual Radiant is wearing Plate it has been shown to act differently than other non-Radiants.

I think it's more likely Plate is an inherently Invested object formed from the Nahel bond, but not from a spren. Syl told Kaladin that the nature of their bond is one in which she is "....taking something from him. And is giving him something in return." (WoK, Chapter 57). She also tells him he is able to use and wield Stormlight far more effectively than someone who is not spren-bonded. All evidence to say a Radiants body changes while being spren-bonded. Fabrials seem to be more an invention of men, while the ability to use surges is completely a matter of Investiture.

Think about it, a Radiant adorned in Plate and wielding a Blade is a fully externally-Invested person. One part from the spren and the other from himself.

There is no reference to when the spren first appeared, but there is one as to how the actual orders were founded( comes from Words of Radiance

We were all led to believe it was Nohadon whom it was attributed the founding of the Knights Radiant but I came across that passage and I'm now unsure of who is responsible.

There is a bigger picture with the Ideals of the Knights. The First Ideal isn't some meaningless gateway. I don't know how it was done, but they were made to swear by these oaths to hold to them to guard against the ability of men to use Surges. The First Ideal is what every knight lives by and the following ideals are what shapes the specific Orders. 

I also think most of you are forgetting his internal monologue leading up to his swearing of the Third Ideal. It walks you through his entire revelation 

 

"'If I protect..." He coughed. 'If I protect...only the people I like, it only means that I don't care about doing what is right." If he did that, he only cared about what was convenient for himself.'"

It continues a bit after that

 

"That was why he'd come back. It was about Tien, it was about Dalinar, and it was about what is right-but most of all it was about protecting people."

You are part of the Order you are in when you are born. It's who you are. The spren point you in the right direction and enable you to be a badass while doing it. The Immortal Words act as "flash" for the readers, but we get the main substance before. The Third ideal isn't wishy washy as some of you think. We're just seeing it in the frame of reference that is this moment, but Kaladin will always protect people, it's what he was born to do. Earlier on the book Syl brings him to task when he questions her on why he lost access to the Stormlight during the sparring session vs Adolin & Zahel. She challenges him by asking who was he trying to protect. This isn't to say his every action has to be directed towards protecting someone, but going against this innate directive is going against his oaths, against who he is.