akasketch

On 5/15/2017 at 6:05 PM, Calderis said:

So basically AonDor is just the ability to use Aons born into someone, and overtime and use they would be what we've come to think of as Elantrians, which is basically just an extreme AonDor savant. 

Elantris created the Shaod as we know it and amps up the natural magic system to the point where when someone's natural AonDor ability manifests, they get thrown to Savanthood damnation near instantly.

That's actually exceptionally believable. 

So now the question is, can we build ChayShan, Dakhor, or Forgery catalyst cities that do something similar?

Although, a Dakhor catalyst city might require an entire city of death; the walls would probably have to be bone themselves. Gosh that's frightening. 

Now that I think about it, I don't know that you can do that for Forgery. It's less of an end-positive Investiture and more of an End-Neutral. Also, it's something that is learned only, not channeled like the others. 

6 hours ago, Yata said:

Probably the area will be the same, maybe it will simply boost the AonDor in the sorround (as Elantris did) beyond its right powerlevel.

Yeah the problem of "Elantris or Elantrian" as starting point is really weird. But notice the Elantrian could use their power also without the Elantris's Aon at work. We saw this in the book, simply they Aon will have their rightful power without the artificial boost Elantris provides. Raoden's Aondor before the Elantris's fix and Aondor in Teod are example of this.

 

It's unsure but probably an Elantrian far from Arelon when the Chasm appeared will avoid the Reod.

6 hours ago, The One Who Connects said:

Not quite.

---

See here.

So Elantrians had to exist to learn the Aonic language, which they had to do in order to know what shape to make the City

Edit: sorta ninja'd by Yata

Man. I knew I was missing something. And here I was getting all excited that we might find a whole other Aon alphabet. 

In other words, we can put another "Elantris" in Teod, but not much else. The good news is that we don't need to base it off of that city's geography. 

15 hours ago, Spoolofwhool said:

I think that would only work as long as it's in the region where AonDor functions, at which point it's just another power amplifier like Elantris. The thing is, I don't think Aons have any power outside of the region where AonDor functions.

Ok. Then, doing that, could you theoretically expand the area where AonDor functions, and then create another embassy, and so on?

The thought that I'm having right now is, "How was Elantris created in the first place?" Given the way the city powers the Elantrians, I'm vaguely certain that it had to come before any Elantrians existed; thus we might be able to mimic the conditions of its creation in other cities, thus expending AonDor's influence. 

I think the key key here is that it would have to be an Arelonite *embassy,* meaning the culture is more prevalent there and the Connection to Arelon is spread,  and a proper Rao Aon based on the city that the Embassy is near and the surrounding landscape. Thinking about it that way, I think we are then creating a whole new form on AonDor, not expanding the old one, so we don't need to be close to the original Elantris. If you're right, however, my first question still stands. 

This is a HUGE question for Brandon, to be sure! One that I don't think is spoiler-y and is unlikely to be RAFO'd. Unless Arelon wants to expand its borders in the future. 

Huh. This is an interesting quandary. Given the WoB on the different investiture types being due to Connection, I feel like if a group of Arelonite/Teoish Elantrians set up an embassy outside a given city in the shape of a Rao Aon based on that city and the surrounding area, it might end up acting like a cell tower for AonDor, allowing Elantrians to use the new base for Aons when within range of the embassy. 

I have no real proof for this, just a hunch. This would also require Elantrian AonDor research to dive into the "Why?" behind every Aon, allowing them to create/discover the new alphabet. 

On 4/28/2017 at 5:48 AM, Itchy Savant said:

It has been a while since I played DnD 5e and I wasn't able to read through your whole right up but from what I saw it looks good. Well done OP. 

As much as I love crafty games/mistborn pen and paper I feel they would have been more successful going down the OGL route and using something like 3.5/pathfinder.  I feel the rules would have allowed cooler combat and it would be easier to turn it into a corner pen and paper in the long run.  If you want to take a stab at homebrewing a cosmere 5e I think you would be met with great success! I may even be able to help!

Thanks a bunch for your feedback and your patience with my reply; life happens lol. I would love to make a Cosmere 5e supplement, and would be glad to have help! I peruse the Unearthed Arcana subreddit quite often, where I found a Mistborn class someone made, so we're not alone. I haven't checked it out thoroughly, but it looked pretty decent to me. 

On 4/29/2017 at 1:35 PM, Figberts said:

I love it! I'm scanning TES and can't find any inconsistencies (although perhaps a better Cosmerenaut could)! Very nice work.

Well, rereading TES led me to find that the final Soul stamp feature should call them Essence Marks, so that shall be edited. Thanks for your reply!

I've been thinking about an Elantrian class and came up with a rough idea for a ChayShan Monk path. I'll be sure to post those when I'm done with them.

With thankfulness,

AKASketch

I made this using Hombrewery, and you can find it here!

The Prestige class requires a lot of DM input and is very power-gamey, but could be fun in the right play group. Thought you guys might appreciate it.

Cheers,

AKASketch

Darn! Accidental down vote; meant to up vote.

...

Can... Can someone fix that? Please? I like this line of thinking.

There's also a kandra worldhopper, somewhere in there. Though how we're supposed to figure out who that would be is beyond me.

Yes. Do not forget WalDo.

Blain got his powers when Invocation was still there, so I assumed that he killed David as part of his Rending.

The Rending happens as a result of being initially consumed by Calamity's darkness.

Well it really depends on what you think of as "soul". Are you talking in a religious sense, like the bit of you that passes out of life after you die? Or are you simply talking about someone's spiritweb?

 

Everything has spiritwebs. My keys have a spiritweb. The button on my fly has a spiritweb. It's just the spiritual aspect, like how everything has a physical aspect, a spiritual aspect, and a cognitive aspect. The spiritweb of my keys are prolly not as complicated as the spiritweb of a person, more like oh gee let's just say a stick.

 

Spiritweb and soul get used interchangably sometimes but that's not always specifically what people mean. Since we're talking about metalborn traits, I'm going to assume when you say soul, you mean spiritweb, since that's where metalborn traits are centered.

 

So. Where would the clone get its spiritweb from? Who knows. Different people have different ideas. Maybe the cell nucleus you take, which should have its own tiny, not very complicated spiritweb, develops into a larger one the way one cell becomes a whole person. Maybe not. The general sense of the spiritual realm is that it's all about connections, so maybe as the life is created, a connection appears to Miles, and one appears to the place where he's being cloned, and one appears to the person doing the cloning, maybe others from Miles's actual parents, maybe there's someone who cut Miles and stole the finger they're using to clone, all the people and things that might impact the clone all converge, and start making the new spiritweb. Who knows? Of all three realms, the spiritual one is least well known.

 

Now I want to know. If you cloned someone genetically Scadrian in Elantris, could they ever be an Elantrian? Could they ever be metalborn? To the ultimate list of questions!

 

In the quote, I feel like "soul" means the viable portion of the spiritweb, the portion with the "Identity" of Miles. The other half would still have a spiritweb; it would just not be that of living Miles. It wouldn't have his identity, and it would no longer be a carrier for his metalborn traits. You couldn't spike anything out of it. Who knows if the individual cells could be cloned to make a metalborn.

I think that the Scadrian mentioned qbove would have a good chance of being/becoming a metalborn Elantrian. Upvoted for astounding logic and possibly figuring out the spiritual realm.

Ooh Look! It's a Minecraft Mistborn Mod! It just adds the powers, not the Scenery though.

 

As for the Rithamist game, I can't help you there. 

Great! I'll check it out soon; just grabbed it. The version you linked was actually incomplete and given up on, but This one is, and is for Forge.  Thanks for urging me to look, though!

I brought up this thread mainly because I have two ideas for spreading good reading (*ahem* Sanderson) among teens, have no real way of making them work myself, and was wondering if there were any similar ideas out there.

The first is a Mistborn Minecraft mod (if either Minecraft or Mistborn makes you lose focus, skip the next 2 paragraphs; the next idea's more complete anyhow).  Due to Minecraft's limited mechanics, controls would be difficult to program, and Rioting and Soothing features would probably be left out.  However, the Mistborn world offers the potential for new bosses, temples, biomes, villages, items, blocks and mobs to appear besides simply making the character a Mistborn or Feruchemist.

As far as I've deduced, mod gameplay would work in this way:  Lerasium would be found in a rarely and randomly generated Well of Ascension/Kredrik Shaw temple with Inquisitor guards, and Atium would be found in an uber-rare Pits-of-Hathsin fissure/biome in geodes you'd have to dig by hand, and would hurt you when you did so.  Other necessary ores would be randomly generated like normal. For realism purposes, a forge would have to be made (if there isn't already one) which you put in multiple ingots to get a desired alloy. All metals would then go into the crafting grid to be made into powder, which could then be put into potion vials for the Mistborn to use. Skaa hovels and plantations could be added, as could Skaa villagers, though I think just having Steel Ministry priest and Keeper/Feruchemist villagers in their own shops/houses would be more fun than seeing depressed Skaa around.  Said villager priests could trade for Mistcloaks, obsidian axes, glass daggers, metal vials, and such, while the Keeper villagers would trade for books pertaining to other religions, the WOA legends, Metalminds, and such. Kandra and Mistwraiths might be an option to be made too, though I know not what purpose they might serve besides being passive mobs.  Koloss would also be a wonderful addition, as would the occasional ashfall in appropriate areas.

My second idea is a Rithmatist tablet/iPod/iPad game.  This idea has been brought up before, but I thought it was worth bringing up again, especially since I think it would generate interest in the books it is based on, and I have a lot of details to add/create.

As one would want the player to feel as much like a real Rithmatist as possible, gameplay would work like this: This would be a multi-player game at its core, with a single-player campaign option that echoes the original story available.  The main menu would be comprised of three options: Duel, Workshop, and Gallery. The Workshop has two areas: Defense and Chalklings. The Defense Workshop would have many digital tools to work with, such as rulers, compasses, and protractors, while the Chalkling Workshop would be limited to freehand, and would record the player from start-to-finish in the creation of the chalkling. After being drawn, the option to designate bones/weapons on your new chalkling (essentially changing its animation) or leave it as a blob would be given. Chalkling images would then be posted to an online server where they would be rated up or down by users, each rating boosting or lowering that Chalkling's power a little.

Duels would be conducted as follows: After a countdown, the player is shown a ghost-image of a previously-made defense. The player would be able to cycle through some default ones that are given as examples in the book as well as their own, and would be forced to either trace one of these defenses freehand, or make an impromptu defense on-the-spot (undoubtedly, there would have to be an option for both modes of play where there is no tracing allowed), then click out of the defense-maker (the game would decide on a complicated algorithm which I do not have the mathematical means to describe or comprehend whether or not it is a "good defense"; judging by the similarity to the traced drawing doesn't work for me). This would take them to the full battlefield, where they would be able to see, in real-time, the other players.  There would be an clickable (we're talking about touchscreens, so would it be pokable?) option for making a chalkling on one corner of the screen, which the player would poke, then poke where they wanted the chalkling, then drag to connect it to a bind point. When they would let go, it would bring up a menu with all of THEIR chalklings on it.  That chalkling would then be drawn like the player originally drew it on the field. Clicking/poking away from the chalkling would immediately start a drawing sequence to either add  to their defense or draw a line of vigor (or the other one) and pause their chalkling drawing until they were done. Once the main circle is breached, its player loses. That player can then watch the remainder of the battle, or leave to join a new game.

Any suggestions, new (unrelated or otherwise) Sandersonian video game ideas, points of clarification or commendation, etc. should be added to the thread!

DISCLAIMER: If you have come up with any of these ideas, I apologize; just say so and the credit shall be yours. I came up with these ideas independently, but that is not to say that you did not come up with it as well or share it before me.

DFTBA.

Would you rather be a Mistborn or a Windrunner (with access to Stormlight)

 

This is a tuffy for me... I'm going to say............... Mistborn.

Mistborn, without question.

...

#lurchersftw.

Suffer a firey death or live out my life on a pleasant beach all to myself?

 

Would you rather do one amazing thing in your life, or do nothing? 

hmm... A large part of me wants to build a Snowman, then slaughter it with Nightblood, but that's not how it works. I'd rather build a snowman than play with Nightblood (He'd probably make me sick).

Also, I'd rather pet a Mistwraith. They're too cool!

would you rather be a stick or fire?

Ask and answer at will! The only rule about questions is that at least one choice must be Sandersonian. I'll start.

have a Shardblade or a lightsaber? Clarification for WoR readers:

My answer:

Have an Honorblade or a Keyblade? Explianation link:

My answer:

Be an Elantrian with a Seon, or be a Knight Radiant?

My answer:

Push or Pull?

My answer:

go Internal or External?

My answer:

That would go against a lot of other stuff with Feruchemy, though, like how tinminds have to store specific senses and not just general sense magic.

So you're saying that Nicrosilminds might hold extraordinarily specific investiture, like how Tin works?

Wow. That would be so OP, it's not even funny, but I like it. Possibly just because it's new and makes my mind turn with the possibilities, but whatever. 

For this to work, the power of a Feruchemist would have to be not the power of storage and return, but the power of conversion. They would be constantly gaining a specific amount of all attributes specified in Feruchemical documents we have access to (excepting a few, such as youth, which they would have a specific amount of when they are born, and they spend it as they go through life), and they can choose to divert-and-convert said energy into specific Investiture in a metal that can be drawn upon later. Nicrosil would then be the "Store-all," but the energy they get would not be "investiture" until they make it so.

It is generally considered plausible that if one were to store an attribute in a metalmind whilst storing their entire identity into an aluminummind, another Feruchemist can access it. If a Feruchemist, for whatever reason, tapped-and-stored something into Nicrosil, such as an important memory, while at ID=0, and then left it in a safe place, a Nicrosil FERRING would have access to the memory. 

Also, what if a Nicrosil Ferring were to become a Knight Radiant? One limitation we know about Stormlight is that it is easy to infuse gems with, but storage really stinks because it's not really locked in there. However, Feruchemical storages never decay. If that ferring were to infuse themselves, then store it away in their Nicrosilmind, Poof, that limitation goes away, and we no longer need to carry tons of money in our pockets! And, that's not even counting a Nicrosil compounder.

As to the Breath thing, I think you'd just end up with either one REALLY strong Breath, or TONS of little tiny wimpy Breaths that would together be greater than your original storage.

I don't really buy the idea that a two-point circle would just be referencing the base and tip of a triangle, because every other circle is able to be expressed in terms of the nine points, just with some merging to be the same point, hence why I tried to show that it is actually possible for a two-point to be expressed as a nine-point with them all converged down to only two. It also better explains the requirement for the points to be end points of a diameter than the "just the tip (and base)" explanation.

 

Also, you mentioned one-point circles? It's been a while since I read it, but are they possible? I don't remember. And I'm not sure what its complement triangle would be if it does.

Just remembered the (0, 180, 0) angles comment. Yes, that works, and makes more sense than my theory.

The one-point circle is the most basic form, and it probably uses a triangle with side lengths of 0, as well as (possibly) the starting and ending point of the circle.

To clarify what has been stated here, there is a complement triangle for each type of line of warding.

1- and 2-point circles have been mentioned in the thread, one of them here, and all others have links to areas where one could find them, but I shall re-state for convenience's sake.

1-point: side lengths of 0; in other words, all nine reference points are in a single point in space. I realize that there is a rule that any two sides must be longer together than the third side to make a triangle, but the 2-point circle would not work with this rule applied either, so we shall disregard it for now.

2-point: Undetermined. Angle lengths of 0, 180, and 0, with edges on either side of the circle works best. The angle of 180 would have to pass through the center, I assume, though then you have a base with no part of the circle passing through its midpoint.

3: none possible.

4: An isosceles right triangle.

5: A non-isosceles right triangle. Why it is not mentioned in the book, I do not know, unless it was decided too impractical for use.

6: An equilateral triangle.

7: none possible/found.

8: An acute, isosceles triangle. See 5.

9: A scalene, acute triangle.

Also:

I saw this thread and thought, "MAN! Idea stealer!"

Then, this:

Sorry to resurrect an old topic, but I just discovered this after making this post here:
http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/5990-trigonometric-connections-to-rithmatics/?p=127619

 

I don't think it's true about the two bind points being able to be anywhere on the circle. Finding the nine points in terms of this triangle gives two points perpendicular to one another, so it makes sense they'd have to be the end points of a diameter of the circle, rather than being just anywhere.

Sir, I thank you, for as dead as my old thread may be, the rules specifically state that if you are providing more evidence to a theory, you are not resurrecting. If anyone is at fault here, it is the creator of this thread, as he STOLE MY THREAD. Just kidding. Kind of. Not really. Okay, not at all, but can you blame me?

Anyhow, a two-point circle would be referencing the base and tip of a triangle, and an argument that one could make a 9-point circle and only use two of the points is not possible, as the bind points are determined not only by the Rithmatist's intent, but also how he or she draws the circle. The placement of the final addition to the line of warding would probably solidify where the bind points are, and prove whether or not the Rithmatist's creation is stable or not.

The fact that each type of circle (excepting the 1- and 2-point circles) is based on the nine important points of a different triangle (See aforementioned linked thread for comprehensive, albeit confusing, evidence) proves this thread true, and also shows us that other combinations might be possible, though difficult to work with.  Research into the actual discovery of the nine-point circle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-point_circle) shows that there are other important curves and even entire circles associated with it that could possibly be utilized in potential lines of warding.

For Cosmere Conspiracy Theorists:

You can use a balance scale on any planet you want.  That will measure mass for you, independent of the gravitational constant.

 

Put a chunk of item A from planet Xog on one side of the scale.  Put a chunk of item B from planet Gox on the other side of the scale.  When they balance, you gots the same amounts of chunks.

Hence why Feruchemical nicrosil is the best option for making unit conversions.

Wait, has it been proven whether or not metalminds can be filled completely? If not, that changes the entire discussion.

 

I think the best way to measure allomancy is through Feruchemical nicrosil. Have each possible Feruchemical nicrosil twinborn measure how much of their metal it takes to fill one metalmind of x mass. From that, you can compare the relative Investiture provided by each metal. Same with the other Feruchemical metals– just convert to a Nicrosilmind. Really, Nicrosilminds are the perfect unit of measure for Investiture Cosmere-wide, since you can store all the powers in it, and it will always be the same. Breaths vary, stormlight fades, the Mists are hard to quantify... but Nicrosil is permanent and exact.

As most measurements are arbitrary, having a bunch of nicrosil Ferrings run around the Cosmere and compare investiture storage notes would be the best option, as it would provide a universal basis for all investiture conversions. Please note that this would not be a cure-all, completely universal measurement, but a means of relatively accurate conversion between the forms on each world. Each form of Investiture, however, would require it's own separate base unit (i.e., 1 Breath, 1 Diamond Chip at max capacity, etc.).

As for converting Nicrosilmind storage into Allomantic power, you would have to set the bar at one second of drainage whilst burning a metal at its lowest "setting," if you will.

Converting Nicrosil to Dor would probably require a similar approach, and would most likely require insane amounts of testing (not to mention Hemalurgy) to discover (Using AonDor as an example and base):

1. Which Aon requires the least amount of energy from the Dor?

2. How much extra Dor does each power-increasing modifier draw?

3. How do the other Aons compare to the base Aon?

4. How do the other forms of Dor control compare to the base Aon?

I realize that this would not be completely exact, as the qualities of metallic alloys, Breath, and jewel cuts vary, and I assume that one's connection to the Dor would as well, but I feel that this is about as comprehensive and universal that Investiture conversions could get.

Good job starting with Mistborn; I heartily suggest reading the rest before starting Words of Radiance. As to TWoK, I'm in the same boat as you; just a bit farther!

Welcome to the site!

Congrats for finally making the decision to enter into this horribly distractive (That IS a word, people; I made it) world! Have an upvote!

I went from an awakener to a spearman. I'm not sure whether I should be disappointed at losing all that Investiture, or glad that I'm kickin' it with Kaladin... Oh, wait! That's right. I'm not cool enough to do that yet; I need to get caught doing something bad in Sadeas's army camp first.

EDIT: At least I'm not a Zucchini.

I think you have a mistake here.  A 9-point circle is produced using an inscribed circle within a right triangle so long as the triangle is not isosceles.

No, actually: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine-point_circle

My thought here was that right triangles and the like did not have nine points relating to their circle, but I was wrong, for there are multiple points converged into one.

Well, I didn't expect this to get so many replies so stinkin' fast!

It shouldn't be too hard to find a set that you could combine.

 

Suppose Dalinar wanted all the powers to himself. Would he have broken any oaths yet?

...

I am sure he can find some truths to speak for the lightweavers.

 

Then he just needs to love adventure and oddities to attract an elsecaller spren and he will then have all ten surges. He likes Wit, he can start being a bit more odd.

This was about the same line that I was thinking on, just not so specific.

Those oaths are all WoR spoilers though; better tag them as such. It's natural to have similarities between second to fifth ideal between Orders as they are all supposed to uphold to the first one every KR share.

But don't forget one's personality effects which Order they belong to. Syl was pretty clear on the contradictions between right and lawful. It was never stated one can be in more than one Order and just because the opposite wasn't stated as well, you can't claim it's likely to belong to more than one Order. Bondsmiths were pretty closed and had up to three members; Truthwatchers were so secretive it'd be impossible to fit in (most) other Orders and so on.

 

As Kurkistan quoted WoB, it's possible, but the questions was about bonding in general and not Nahel bond in particular.

 

That being said, I think it's possible other kinds of bonds exist between humans and spren, so one could bond a spren in a different way. Why bother calling it 'Nahel bond' if it's the only bond that can exist?

Completely agree, and on all counts.

One thing I should probably mention: I have NOT finished WoK yet! I just like looking at the magic systems of books I'm reading before I've finished them, as I find them immensely interesting.