xbauks

Can you explain what this has to do with any of this? Are you suggesting that the lack of technology would prevent the KR from creating the Shards in any other way?

Unless Jasnah is wrong, many spren did die during the Recreance. We also know: 1. Szeth has no Spren and most likely he is holding Jezrien's Honourblade (source of his Surgebinding). 2. Shardplate interferes with Szeth's Lashings. 3. KR are shown to be using some of their Surges while in Plate. Some possible explanations: 1. KR can only use some of their powers while in Plate. (I doubt it) 2. Plate and Blade were forged by a Surgebinder with help of their Spren and therefore "attuned" to their Surgbinding. (I'm thinking this is most likely) 3. Spren turn into Plate and Blade after achieving KR status. Feel free to add to the evidence/explanation list.

The only time the origin of the Ideals is mentioned is when Teft says that the Ideals were based on the WoK. But what if it's the other way around? It's strongly implied that Nohadon and/or Karm are Windrunners. What if the WoK is written based on the Ideals and therefore make it easier for KR recruits to reach higher Ideals? What if it was written with the intent that those who read it and follow it have an easier time making the Nahel bond?

1a. I couldn't find any reference to the Knights establishing Urithiru. In Dalinar's vision "Starfalls" the KR mentions that the Orders are based in Urithiru but the KR live in Alethela. 1b. Only reference I could find to this was Teft. He mentions that the KR based their Ideals on the WoK. If there is another reference I missed please let me know. 2. Thanks for pointing this out. I completely missed this. 3. I had missed that epigraph as well. What if the splintering of Honour made the KR realize that the Heralds had lied? That they hadn't won and that the Desolations were going to keep coming.

BS said that the Highstorms are like the Mists. Could the Gemhearts be like the beads of Atium? part of Honour/Cultivation/Odium's body?

I thought the Recreance resulted in the Hierocracy. The betrayal of the KR being such a blow to the moral of the people that the Vorin church was able to step in and sieze control.

Surgebinders existed before the Way of Kings was written by Nohadon. However, it is believed that the KR were founded on the Way of Kings. This would imply that the Way of Kings predates the KR. If we were to carry this further, this means that the Nohadon vision took place BEFORE the last Desolation. Here is the general consensus of the timeline: -Second to last Desolation -Nohadon vision -KR formed based on WoK -Starfalls vision -the last Desolation -Heralds' Betrayal -WoR vision -Recreance -Hierocracy -Gavilar's Murder -Present day Correct me if I missed something. This is off the top of my head.

I think that the First Ideal is different from the rest of the Ideals. I think that each of the other Ideals (2-5) are inherent to the Spren that the Surgebinder is bonded to. That would mean that they are the same for each member of the Order before and after the KR were formed. However, I think that the First Ideal only became the First Ideal after the KR were formed. Before this point, there was no "First Ideal". Some things I noticed: -When Kaladin says the Second Ideal, Syl only asks "Do you know the Words?" She never tells him what the Words are. Nor does she say the Words of the Second Ideal. -Kaladin doesn't know the Words until after he has absorbed Stormlight. (Might be because he wasn't thinking about them. He was more focused on getting to the other side.) -The First Ideal is mentioned in the book Way of Kings. None of the others are. -Nohadon laments "Alas, not all spren are as discerning as Honourspren" when talking about Alakavish. What if Nohadon was trying to do what the Spren could not. What if he was trying to create a Kingdom where regardless of whether someone was bonded to an Honourspren, they would be as honourable as a Windrunner.

I think it will have to happen at some point. The whole reason odium is splintering the shards is so that someone else won't just pick up the shard and oppose him.

Exactly yes. I can't seem to find the source for it. If someone else finds it or has the link I'd appreciate it. I want to make sure I'm not remembering some theory. Edit: found it. It's the 3rd question. It's not exactly what I was looking for but its close enough.

WoB: It is possible to remake a splintered Shard. Going to look it up and get back to you with a link. Edit: Here it is. It's the 3rd question. This is the closest I could find so far. So It is possible to fix Honour.

This seems more likely. The mists helped "snap" people. They didn't give anyone powers. The power was already in thier genes.

This is contradicted by one of new excerpts.

I was going to make a new thread for my theory but it just seems more convenient to put it here. <WoR Spoilers ahead!> Here are the things we know from the books/excerprts. 1. The KR were still fighting some force when the Stonewards and Windrunners abandoned their shards. (most probably the Parshendi) 2. Sometime after this, the Parshendi are enslaved and (speculation) all of them are turned into slaveform (Parshmen). (Alternate theory: The children are born as slaveform. As they age, they learn to change into the different forms.) 3. Only the Stonewards and Windrunners are shown to have abandoned their shards. 4. Nohadon says "Alas, not all spren are as discerning as honourspren." 5. From the excerpts, Jasnah tells Shallan "There is a complex sort of conflict between [the Cryptics] and the Honourspren." 6. The Almighty tells Dalinar "I was surprised when these orders arrived. I did not teach my Heralds this. It was the spren—wishing to imitate what I had given men—who made it possible." Theory: Some orders of the KR came up with a plan to enslave the Parshendi. This would be opposed by the Windrunners, and perhaps even some of the others (including Stonewards) . To avoid conflict, atleast the Windrunners and Stonewards were kept in the dark about these plans. When the Windrunners and Stonewards found out about the plan to enslave the Parshendi, they revolted. They broke the Nahel Bond and gave up their shards. (Speculation: Perhaps the Honourspren told the Windrunners that if enough of the Nahel Bonds are broken simultaneously, it would create a strong enough disruption in Shadesmar to break ALL the Nahel Bonds. Thus hopefully stopping the enslavement of the Parshendi.)