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Posts posted by ccstat
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Added the invocations of Battah and Chana, but not the direct references (e.g. the monologue). Also added "What in the Halls?" by Van Jushu.
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Shallan's viewpoints, especially her flashbacks, show her mind blanking whenever she starts thinking about something she's hiding from herself. This most frequently involves events surrounding her mother's death, specifically her initial bonding with Pattern, his manifestation as a blade, etc. She confronts this specific memory at the end of WoR, but as many have pointed out there are still mysteries in her past that we don't know about.
In the flashback chapter 27 "Fabrications to Distract," I found these two quotes:
Nobody in the manor knew where Helaran went when he left.
She lost track of time, staring at a blank sheet of paper....Perhaps he [Father] did not wish her to be able to speak of things she'd seen. She stopped in the hallway, her mind going blank.The second instance is a clear case of her coping mechanism, but what about the first? Did she stop thinking about Helaran for similar reasons? Does she actually know what he's up to?Taravangian speculates that perhaps Shallan had been trained to surgebind by her brother. I initially discounted that as ridiculous--clearly Shallan was discovering her powers on her own. However, if Helaran was off surgebinding with the Skybreakers and Shallan knew about it, she would likely block it out of her mind because of the connection to Pattern. I think it likely that she knew, and possible that Helaran did in fact help "introduce" Shallan to Pattern in the first place.4 -
Props to the OP! I have been trying to figure out what the Szeth-Odium connection is. Those "everstorm approaching" premonitions as Szeth is about to arrive had me confused for a long time. I'd finally come up with a (bad) theory (about how the Honorblade made him aware of Braize and Taln's screams) and was about to post it when I found this thread. The Yelig-Nar idea fills in the holes for me and makes much more sense than what I came up with.
Also, that WoB you quote also had me confused before, but reading it with the Unmade in mind makes it quite clear.
Consider me convinced!
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Love the song, Patrick.
I added Yalb's blustering, as well as "glories within," which was used by Szeth in WoK. Starvin' was already noted, but thanks for pointing it out. Keep them coming!
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I read it the same way Kurk did: listeners can see more of Shadesmar than humans can, so they see more of the spren's cognitive nature and they see them coming from farther away.
When Shallan views Shadesmar after the shipwreck she is astonished at how big and ominous the exhaustionspren appear on that side. And Pattern appears in his symbolhead version there, in contrast to his representation in the physical realm.
That's not to say that angerspren and stormspren couldn't share characteristics, perhaps explaining why Eshonai associated them in her mind. (I don't think the windspren:honorspren analogy holds, though.)
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These stuck out to me as great finds:
Q: What are Oldbloods?
A: Oldbloods are the...years ago Alethkar was ruled by a different group of people. A different, like, dynasty. It's been overturned and it's been a long enough time that they're not really a threat. But to acknowledge they're an Oldblood, they wear the tatoo that means, "We used to rule this place." And so, it's just a lineage of people in a dynasty that used to be the kings of Alethkar.
Q: How do Alethi get married?
A: I will show you a wedding ceremony eventually.
Q: How did they come by the Dawnshard that Szeth got?
A: They historically kept all of them.It's nice to know that the Oldbloods are (probably) not yet another secret society. We have enough of those running around as it is. I like the historical color.
Alethi wedding coming up: cue the shipping war.
If I recall correctly, past questions of whether Dawnshards are distinct from Honorblades have been RAFO'd. Is that right, or is there WoB I missed? Would this response serve as confirmation that they are the same?
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Just a side note. I live in Atlanta, GA, but for some reason I dreamed last night that I'd gone to this signing. And at that signing Brandon answered all sorts of questions about Hoid; but more than that, Brandon wowed us all by revealing his pre-writing career as an Olympic javelin-throw coach. I notice that part isn't in your recording, so I'm guessing my dream may have strayed from reality a bit.
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By your leave, then...
843 is Shardbearer. Edge not yet found. Calling for a downvote rectification please (or additional downvote/upvote testers, if you prefer)
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Damnation! I'm using mobile, so I didn't see exactly when I turned, sorry...
I guess we could downvote you a few times if we really wanted to find the boundary...
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Scanned the active posters for new numbers. Here are the range extensions I found. Some are only incremental, but a few close the gaps. Bold is a new hard boundary. Should be clear from the text, but italics highlight a lower bound while the rest are upper bounds. Unless I missed something, this should make 105 the lowest unconfirmed rank.
845 already Shardbearer
791 still Spinner549 still Kings Wit470 still King's tester438 still Ghostblood341 still Stormwarden645 still soulcaster298 still Silent Gatherer196 still High Prelan145 already Cobalt Guard128 already Hazekiller99 still Babsk74 still Idrian Monk64 already Obligator50 already Grand1 -
When was the last time Hoid got a hug? (before WoR)
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I think the driver was still Wit. He just lightweaved a little disguise to stop Shallan from hugging him again.
I agree that it is still Wit in disguise. I've been trying to think of a motive for that, and hug avoidance is possible. I think it more likely that he didn't want to continue his conversations with K & A, but I'm still not sure.
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Great additions. OP updated. Thanks especially for finding Pali's mind--I remembered reading that one and couldn't locate it.
Also, can't believe I missed Damnation.
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Mysty, I like your Hoid one. The final "Where is Hoid?" made me think of us here on 17S poring over a gigantic cosmere Where's Waldo. Which is kind of what happens.
Live-->alive is n-->adj, and therefore much better from a grammar rule POV. I do still like the sound of living better, but I think this is the fix I'll go with.
What's harder, Keteks, or Sonnets?
Ooo, good question. My immediate thought was "Keteks, for sure," but on reflection that's not really true. I think it is easier to write a bad sonnet than a bad ketek, but a good sonnet is at least as hard as a good ketek.
For me, at least, keteks are harder to write because the constraints take so much thought and revision before I get a workable version, good or not. Sonnets have fewer rules, so it's easier to pound one out that obeys all the "this is what makes a sonnet" guidelines. But my first-pass sonnets are almost invariably terrible, and it takes a lot of work to make them into worthwhile poems. I'm going with sonnets as harder because there is a lot more substance there, more words that have to work together.
That all may have to do with familiarity, though. I generally write blank verse, but there was a period about two years ago where I was writing a lot of haiku and related forms. I then tried to experiment with cinquains, which are of about the same length but with even syllable counts instead of odd. It was so much more difficult to make the mental transition than I thought it would be.
When I've written a sonnet or been reading Shakespeare, the next sonnet comes a lot easier than if I've just read Green Eggs and Ham. The same was true for the keteks: once I got going with them they started to form themselves much more easily in my mind. (Still haven't come up with more to post here, though.)1 -
Good suggestions. I've added the examples and categories mentioned.
@EMTrevor, I couldn't find the tongue reference. Do you know where that was? If I can get a quote I'll add it to the list.
I do think it is interesting that the heralds each have a body part association, but that is not same as the "body focus" found in the essences table.
"Ash's eyes" kind of makes sense since she is called the Herald of Beauty. The others I'm still wondering about.
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This is a compilation of all the curses and exclamations used in the Stormlight Archive. Hopefully it will illuminate the culture, magic, and history, and provide some entertainment as well. I appreciate your continued help in finding any that I have missed. This post is complete through Edgedancer. You can find a list incorporating curses from Oathbringer here.
UPDATE Sep 2017: I have reworked and consolidated the organization. In most cases, I have removed the speaker attributions for the sake of clarity, as I felt that the speaker’s identity was superfluous. The speaker is noted in some instances to help identify the cultural context. If you think a particular phrase should be attributed (or not), please make your case in a comment. I believe the list is now exhaustive for WoK, WoR, and Edgedancer.
Storms and Storming are universal, and people use them frequently. So far we haven’t had many scenes from people on the western half of the continent where the storms are weaker; there is a good chance that the storms are invoked far less in such regions. Notably, Taffa uses a storm-related curse in Dalinar’s Starfalls vision, indicating that it was used historically as well. Variants and related curses: "Stormwinds" (Lirin, Taffa), "Storms alight" (Jasnah), "Blustering" (Yalb),
The Heralds, collectively and as individuals, are invoked across many Rosharan cultures.
Vorin speakers most frequently swear by Kelek, but by the end of WoR Vorin speakers have invoked each of the ten Heralds at least once. As they occur in curses, the Vorin forms are: Jezerezeh, Nalan, Chana, Vedeledev, Pailiah/Pali, Ash, Battah, Kelek, Talat, Ishi
- [Herald] knows or [Herald] send are frequent formulations. ”Chana help” is a similar construction
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[Herald’s] [attribute] A herald is often paired with a body part or attribute. Some appear to be traditional associations, but others are most likely spontaneous variations. Examples
- Kelek's breath
- Kelek's tongue
- Ash's eyes
- Ishar's soul
- Nalan's hand
- Pali's mind—(Adrotagia)
- by Vedeledev's golden keys—(Kabsal)
- Talat's hand
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Other Variants:
- “Living Heralds above”
- Heralds send”
- "What in Kelek's name”—(Talik) notable because Rysn is amused at the usage of a Vorin curse by a Reshi trader
Azish speakers use alternate names for the heralds, primarily invoking Yaezir (Jezrien)
- Variants: "for Yaezir's sake," "Yaezir help"
- Kadasixes and Stars--used by an Azish vizier. Kadasix is their word for Herald, but the association with stars is interesting, especially considering cosmological features like Taln's scar and the gas giants shown in the star chart in Arcanum Unbounded.
Tashikki speakers frequently invoke Tashi, probably the Herald Taln, though other possibilities have been proposed (see this thread). Variants: "Tashi above," "Tashi, God of Gods and Binder of the World"
Other Vorin Curses
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Almighty is a frequent Vorin curse, referencing Honor/Tanavast. Many variants of usage are found:
- "Almighty above"
- "by the Almighty's tenth name"
- "what in the Almighty's own eyes?"
- "by the names of God himself"
- "Almighty, cast from heaven to dwell in our hearts"
- Stormfather is a ubiquitous Vorin curse. NOTE: While the general usage is distinct, we should remember that Vorinism has conflated the Stormfather with Jezerezeh/Jezrien. We see explicit instances of this conflation from Kaladin, Moash, and Sigzil in WoK.
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Damnation is especially common among Vorin speakers. Zahel (a worldhopper living in Vorin society) has also used this curse. Variants and related phrases
- “What in Damnation's eleventh name?"—(Sebarial)
- “What in the Halls”—(Van Jushu) a reference to the Tranquiline Halls
Other Cultures
- Passions--Thaylen
- Flick my sparks –(Lopen) Herdazian exclamation, a reference to sparkflickers.
- Blight it all – (Axies) presumably Siah/Aimian
- Dustmother—(Ton, a Bavlander in a Szeth interlude of WoK). Possibly Vorin?
- Glories within—(Szeth) presumably Shin
- Kali’kalin’s ghost –(Rock) Unkalaki, possibly referencing a Herald?
- Starlight-(Geranid) Speaker is a Vorin ardent with extended residence in the Reshi isles
Spren So far, the only instances we have are from Wyndle: “Sweet virtue” and “Oh blessed mother”
Unique or Uncategorized
- Drynets—a sailor curse implied to be quite inappropriate.
- Starving--unique curse used by food-obsessed Lift.
- Storming Mother of the World and Father of Storms Above. (Lift) Originally Reshi, Lift has travelled widely, so it is difficult to assign a parent culture.
- By the Brightcaller's Rays -- used by Drehy, so presumably a phrase from far western Roshar (presumably Rira)
Past Eras, as seen in Dalinar’s visions
- Three Gods--(Taffa)
- Sweet wisdom of Battar--(Taffa)
Worldhoppers
- Shadows—(Nazh) Threnody
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This has a high chance of being intentional, but it stuck out to me as odd so I'm posting as a potential typo:
I paid a lot of attention to the curses people used through the book. With Vorin speakers, each herald seems to be associated with a given body part: Ash's eyes, Ishar's soul, etc. Twice someone swears with "Nalan's hand." In another place, the phrase is "Talat's hand." (I believe it's on pg 632, Shallan speaking right before she hides inside the boulder illusion.)
Talat is not a herald name as far as I can tell. It is close to Tanat, but not quite.
It is likely that this is just something that doesn't fit the rules I'm trying to impose on the world. She could be swearing by a non-herald, or Talat could be a herald name. And maybe heralds share swear-associations in Vorin culture. "Nalan's hand" is used by Kaladin and by Adolin, so maybe the Talat vs Nalan difference is regional between Jah Keved and Alethkar. (The other curses seem consistent across all Vorin speakers).
Anyway, wanted to point it out just in case.
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I'm not sure that you can turn nouns into verbs for the keteks.
This is a good point, and something I've worried about. The official description "allows for variation in verb forms," but I've got verb-->adjective, verb-->noun, and adjective-->adverb shifts here. When I analyze it, I feel comfortable with everything except verb-->noun, as you say. I think the others are justified. For now I'll leave it (I think it's just the one in Szeth's right?), but I am looking for other ways to have more non-redundant meaning in repetition.
Also, most Keteks are written like "words/words/words/words/words" Not a judgement, but...you know.
That's also true. I guess I'm just too used to line breaks in poetry. Having seen the beautiful way Navani wrote hers out into a single glyph, though, I'm becoming sold on the single-line version for keteks.
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Yes, clearing the cache on Chrome (in Win 8) fixed both issues.
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Are there images of the "Where's My Chull" book? I really want to see it.
Also, who is it from? That was a brilliant idea.
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This started happening for me yesterday, and in my case it is definitely a browser issue.
Using Chrome in Windows 8, everything was fine through Saturday night. Then I tried accessing the mobile site using an Android phone (running Chrome), and after that something broke in my viewing of the site with the computer. Spoiler tags won't open, and none of the post formatting options are available--it looks very "html-y" as someone else said. However, that is only the case in Chrome. IE works fine on that computer, and Safari displays fine using a different machine.
I'll update here if I figure out what caused the problem, or if it goes away. Hopefully this helps identify the issue if it is a problem for others.
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Thanks for the feedback, guys. I agree, Kaladin's isn't quite there yet.
Here is an alternative Kaladin, and one for Mr. T. Both have room for revision, and both contain potential WoR spoilers.Kaladin
Failing again, never protecting,
Oaths betrayed.
Renew honor,
renewing betrayed oaths,
protecting, never again failing
Taravangian
Brilliance without compassion
required this action today
for salvation, yet salvation
for today's action, this requires
compassion without brilliance.6 -
I've been trying to compose keteks for various SA characters. (I'm thinking to include them in karaokeang's WOR tour scrapbook.) Some are still giving me trouble--hopefully I'll be able to tweak them into presentability and post them later. These three are pretty close to final revision, though.
I'd love to see what others come up with if you want to compose some too.
Szeth
Unheard screams
own my life,
still Truthless,
still living,
my own screams unheard.
Shallan
Lies held close
dangerously hide
self from self,
hiding dangerous
closely held lies.
Kaladin
Protected, trained to heal;
betrayed and wronged, overcome.
Choosing honor, by honor chosen,
overcoming wrongs and betrayal
healing to train, protect.
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When are you planning to wrap this up? I am not near a signing but thought I'd send in a few cards anyway. When do you need to receive them for inclusion?
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Anybody else think Sadeas was a bit... strange?
in Stormlight Archive
Posted
We have WoB that even darkeyes feel the Thrill, so it is definitely not restricted to shardbearers. Also, when Taravangian arrives in Jah Keved he says that the fighting has been so terrible because the Thrill is there now, rather than hanging out just in Alethkar. So it seems to be pretty universal.