Genesis

Yeah I think as far as air mobility powers go a crasher/windrunner combo is pretty ridiculous! Theoretically they could lash themselves in a direction, tap their ironmind, add another lashing, rinse and repeat, then when they are nearing the limits of stored weight, immediately stop tapping and store as much weight as they possibly can and accelerate to ludicrous speeds. Imagine that guy using the wind wedge thingy kaladin did, during the storm in the parsh camp, to reduce drag as well...

6 hours ago, JustQuestin2004 said:

Not quite, I don't mean that using a Full Lashing on yourself while storing weight would lose less Stormlight, I mean you could use a Quarter Lashing to move around while storing weight, which would use less Stormlight than a Full Lashing.

I think what TW was saying is that a 50kg object and a 5 kg object still experience the exact same acceleration from gravity. So a quarter lashing upward would still only mitigate a quarter of the acceleration acting upon the given object due to planetary gravity. The lashings (at least directly upward lashings) don't really make you weightless in the sense you seem to be thinking. They apply acceleration equal to gravity (more or less depending on how many lashings) in the chosen direction. ( again, assuming the lashings are literally gravitational in nature)

Eg. If Planetary gravity is 10ms^-1, then a full Lashing upward would be equivalent to -10ms^-1 - relative to the planet

So a 1/4 Lashing would be -2.5ms^-1 in the same context. Meaning that under the effects of 1/4 Lashing, a 100kg man would seem to way approximately 75 kg, conversely, if you stored weight to make yourself 10kg, you would still weigh 7.5kg under the effects of gravity + 1/4 Lashing.

In saying that, we don't know how much spiritual connection and perception play into this particular situation, so I could easily be very wrong here.

3 hours ago, agrabes said:

I think you're getting a little overboard on this.  Anger is a passion, the same as joy, sadness, sexual desire, etc.  Passion just means strong emotion, it doesn't have to be positive or negative.  The first definition of hate when you google it is "intense or passionate dislike."  Hate requires passion.

Is Odium just "Passion"?  Probably not, but on screen so far he hasn't shown that he is just "hate" either.  There's a good chance in the next book or two we will see that everything he has done is to lay the groundwork for increasing the hate in the world, but as of right now he's shown relatively little hate on screen.

Totally agree with you here, you've put into words what I was struggling to explain! 

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Thing is it does not.  Hate can often by a profound lack of emotion and that is often when it is at its most dangerous.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree, it's gonna cone down to your beliefs and understanding of psychology, but let me just say this, at no point in my life have I EVER hated something that I have a 'profound lack of emotion' for. I think some people delude themselves into thinking they don't care about something they hate, but as far as I'm concerned, if you give the time and energy it takes to hate something, you care about it in one way or another, or to put it in other words, you are passionate towards or against it. To use your example from before, the fact that you 'hate neonazis' tells me that you care about the plight of those they oppose, or you strongly disagree with their beliefs (or both) but the fact that you have given the matter enough thought to be able to state you hate them shows that you are at the very least compassionate. See what I did there?  

2 hours ago, Karger said:

Sure.  But calling him the shard of change is still a misnomer. 

I'm not calling him THE shard of change, just saying that he is A shard of change, in the same way preservation is very much not a shard of change.

39 minutes ago, Elegy said:

Following this train of thought, could Odium and Devotion, in a similar manner, be two opposite directions of passion?

Yeah I can see that working to some extent, but anything dealing with the emotional side of things could be lumped into this category, as you generally don't have emotional responses to things you literally don't care about.

I'm not arguing that odium IS passion, just that he does have a tenuous link to passion through his intent, Just as devotion and ambition would too.

19 hours ago, Karger said:

And you can't destroy something without changing it but that does not make Ruin the shard of change.  Also I find that the realy scary kinds of anger are the calm kinds not the I am off the rails kinds.

I totally agree with your comparison, but disagree with the ruin not being about change part, that is exactly what he is, he is essentially the shard of entropic change. He is change, just focused in one direction, by the same token Cultivation is about change too.

@RShara to play devil's advocate, you can't trully hate something without being quite passionate about it first. 

Hmmm that is a question we don’t really have enough information to know the answer to, there are just so many different variables, Does a seer actually SEE a shadow? Or is it a manifestation of a new ‘sense’  as a way for their cognitive aspect(coupled with the investiture being channeled from the atium) to cope with a boatload of information it is naturally ill equipped to handle?

Its kind of in the same vein as this question: Does a coin shot REALLY see blue lines coming from their chest? Or is that just their minds way of translating the information it’s recieving from a ‘sense’ it wasn’t born with?

I mean, if there was a way to monitor the signals travelling through the Optic nerve cluster of a coinshot or seer, would there be signals travelling along it? Or would all of that information be getting ‘injected’, for lack of a better term, directly into the cerebral cortex of the person by the investiture, which then sends signals to the visual cortex as a way of interpreting the information?

If it’s travelling along the optic nerves, then I would agree with you, they aren’t going to see anything, then promptly die two seconds later. But if it’s being manifested as it’s own sense, then ‘translated’ into a visual representation, it’s possible that they would still have some awareness of the shadows motions, even thought they can’t ‘see’ it. This is all speculation obviously, without someone kidnapping Brandon and interrogating him (or something else, like, I don’t know, asking him at a signing or something similarly less spectacular  ) it’s gonna be hard to hash this one out. 

See that’s where I disagree, if we assume Atium consistently sees a set amount of time into the (probable) future (not factoring for flaring or allomantic strength differences etc), then they have time to react, regardless of the steel runners speed, it’s just that instead of seeing a shadow move towards them and make motions to attack, they are going have a shadow suddenly appear right on top of them attacking, Two seconds before it actually happens. Eg. let’s say that the steel runner can close the distance and attack in 0.1 seconds, the seer still has 1.9 seconds, before the steel runner has even begun his attack, to calculate and react to the sudden appearance of a shadow.

As I said, that’s just my take on things.

I kind of see it as analogous to someone (in this case the steel runner) sucker punching you, without atium, you catch a hint of movement in your periphery milliseconds before it hits you, with atium, you see that same hint of movement in your periphery two seconds before it happens, giving you just enough time to skip the punch and mitigate most of the damage you would have taken. I just want to reiterate, I’m in no way saying the seer is going to win this fight, I just don’t think it’s going to be QUITE as easy as some of the posts above seem to, but it all hinges on how and when shadows are created.

On 05/02/2019 at 0:40 AM, Scion of the Mists said:

Even if the Seer can get ~2 seconds of foresight, there's no way that they can avoid the Steelrunner's attacks.  Even discounting the Steelrunner's somewhat heightened mental ability (to avoid arguing about its magnitude), the Seer is still limited to normal physical reactions.  How many attacks per second could the Steelrunner unleash.  Heck, they could just pick up a handful of gravel and throw it at the Seer (which would cover a large enough area that the Seer couldn't dodge).  

Yeah my bad posted that before I finished the thought, I agree that there’s little to no chance of the seer winning that confrontation, my thought process was just that two seconds is a lot of time to react in combat for someone who’s mind has been expanded enough to make split second decisions when facing a normal foe, In saying that, anything they do decide to do, is probably going to get countered the moment the Steelrunner realises that the Seer is trying to defend himself , which, as we’re not sure how Atium determines shadow creation, will either cause the shadow to make a ‘course correction’, or a second will appear. BUT by the time that second shadow (or course correction) happens it’s going to be too late.

Just as a foot note, it really depends on how Atium ‘peers’ into the spiritual realm, because there is no ‘time’ there, it’s possible that two seconds before the attack, the seer sees a shadow appear to be attacking them, then suddenly it’s in a different position dodging a counter that the Seers mind has barely had time to come up with, as this is a fairly probable outcome for the situation given, it’s fully possible that Atium ‘saw’ this as the most probable outcome and showed this to the seer, in which case the Seers fending off fending off the attack for a little longer increase. I don’t know, just food for thought.

What it really depends on is if the Seer is actively burning Atium at the time of the attack, If they are they stand a slim chance depending on how effective of a fighter Atium really makes you. If they are burning moments before the attack, they are going to have 2 seconds warning regardless of how fast the steel runner can move, The moment the steel runner decides to attack(or however Atium determines what a shadow will do) , a shadow is going to snap from the runner to the seer

I think @Gasper might be on the right track, if we take what we know of the Nahel bond, the merging of spirit webs between a physical being and a cognitive being, he is most definitely more connected to Honor than almost anyone else, taking into account that the Stormfather is a fusion of a Spren and Tanavasts cognitive shadow. I’m of the belief that he is ascending to “Sliver”hood but not Godhood.

It Would definitely be fun to be a Windrunner, but I still think I’d have more fun as a Mistborn! Having a full suite of abilities means you have so many more options for mischief! 

Plus, Steel and Iron would let me imitate a wind runners abilities pretty well (in the area I live in anyways!)

I would definitely go Mistborn, forget how useful it is, it would be so fun! 

Oh I wasn’t suggesting there were 10 unmade, just that 9 heralds remaining meant 9 of odiums splinters could stay. But you two WOBed the crem out of that theory!

On a side note Child of Hodor when you said “The eighth epoch is during the Heraldic Epochs before the Heralds” I’m guessing you meant before the heralds abandoned?

Also, is there credibility to the idea that odium influenced the plan to leave one herald behind? It could be a coincidence that 9 abandoned the oathpact, but why not 8 and leave 2? Why not set up a rotating roster so each gets to live a millennia or two on Roshar between desolations? (damnation! I’m convincing myself more and more that it’s not a coincidence that 9 abandoned)

9 hours ago, Calderis said:

And I feel it's the opposite. A bond would fix them, but how do you forge a bond with a spren who has been rendered essentially mindless? 

I think Adolin supports this, because Maya is healing. She's summoned in under the ten heartbeats, and she's spoken even if that communication is somewhat rudimentary.

I’m thinking all of his interactions with her (from talking to her long before he ever knew she was a dead spren, right upto her revealing her name and so on) created a spiritual connection to her. Brandon’s has said that breaking the bond could be compared to ripping out wet ware, but she is a being of investiture, and so that damage would be done to her spirit web. My thoughts are leaning in the direction that connection is what is repairing the vast damage to her soul.

Connection is investiture

Investiture can be used to fill the cracks in the spiritweb.

On 15/10/2018 at 7:59 AM, Pagerunner said:

This is also partly because the Unmade were left behind on Roshar after the Final Desolation. (Which I know runs counter to the idea that Unmade are super-Fused, as I mentioned out above. I'm just tossing out some possibilities that point to similar conclusions.) The Fused returned to Braize, but the Thrill and the Death Rattles stuck around on Roshar and became accepted parts of some cultures. I don't recall a single mention of an Unmade on Braize. And this is the point I've been building towards: can you find any indication that the Unmade came from, went to, or were ever on Braize? Knocking down the idea that the Unmade are a purely Rosharan phenomenon, through placing one on Braize, would give some credence to the idea that they could have hopped over from another world.

You might actually be onto SOMETHING with this, regardless of whether it is relevant to this particular topic.

Its possible that they used to get sent back with the fused when the Heralds sent themselves to Braize, but the 9 Heralds staying on roshar meant 9 of odiums splinters got to stay. (In which case he could have obviously chosen some of his voidspren or whatever else, but he would silly not to send those splinters that were most capable of achieving his goals)

Crazy theory time: (don’t know if someone else has suggested this) it was odium who conceived the plan to abandon the oathpact, he knew there were cracks in the souls of the heralds (from their breaking under torture) and somehow “influenced” whoever came up with it (can’t remember who’s idea it was to ditch taln) resulting in 9 of the heralds abandoning the oathpact.

Hmmm do we know for sure the unmade predate the heralds abandoning the oathpact?

On 04/10/2018 at 2:18 AM, Calderis said:

This is addressed in the book itself. The iron in the weight medallions is only there for convenience.

You were totally correct for what it’s worth: 

WOB from private message on reddit

That’s why I’m asking, if we haven’t seen it we can’t assume they’re capable of it. To even contemplate being able to compound, they have to either be able to store in a seperate metalmind, or swallow the medallion.

Do we even know if an Allomancer using a medallion (of their particular metal) is capable of compounding? Have we seen anyone use a metal mind other than the medallion to store the given attribute?

@DSC01 yeah that's pretty much what I was getting at, just don't have the mental capabilities to typing the thinkings into words right now

The way it read made it seem like it was almost like a part of Eshonai (like an aspect of her personality) was doing the screaming. 

Im thinking this direction because each of the forms (listener-spren bonds?) "colours" their personality to varying degrees. I'm just speculating here but I think that basically the odiumspren are somehow suppressing/overriding the storm form listeners cognitive aspect.

Ah I had it a Bit backwards in my head, but it makes sense, halving his weight would double his velocity (conserving his momentum) good Ol physics!

Would wax's weird interaction with conservation of momentum also be considered part of the Crasher resonances?

17 hours ago, Pagerunner said:

"Restricted," not "Restrictive." I've tossed this idea around before, that Autonomy lacks fundamental bounds on its Intent. Ruin wants to Ruin, Endowment wants to Endow, Cultivation wants to Cultivate. But Autonomy wants to Do What I Want, giving the Vessel much more leeway to pursue her own agenda(s).

There are several different interpretations to the word 'autonomy' that can be used to infer the meaning of the Shard's Intent. There's the Anarchist behavior seen by Trell. There's the Isolationist behavior Khriss describes in AU. And then there's the Independent behavior, which I've compared to the Chronicles of Narnia ("[Aslan]'s not a tame lion.") The other Shards say, "Don't mess with our worlds," and she says, "Don't tell me what I can't do!" and sneaks her religions in. Until we see more of Bavadin's active influence, I don't think we'll be able to narrow down which (if any) is her true Intent.

This is exactly what I meant, thanks for saving me the effort @Pagerunner!

My theory was that Autonomy, coupled with a very fluid interpretation of its intent, has ALL of those options available. (Or possibly even has a "Legion-esque" multiple personality disorder, explaining the gender switching?)

This would allow for the shard to seem to act hypocritically, without directly opposing its intent.

On a side note, is it not sort of ironic that the Vessel for autonomy is bound by the intent of an (originally) external force? This was my other thought, maybe Autonomy's intent allows that fluid interpretation? To give the vessel autonomy from the power?

So, this just popped into my head, but my theory is that, at least in relation to the other shards, Autonomy's holder is not as restricted by the effects of his/her intent.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe that they could go directly against their mandate, but more that, by following their mandate, they are given far more freedom to act within the cosmere than the other shards we know. 

Its 1:30am here and I'm on a break at work, so I don't have time to go into much more depth than this, I will post more about it tomorrow, but please, in the meantime, discuss!