Darkness

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

Ruin is Entropy though, and it’s hard to argue that’s anything but change. Odium seems to be almost the opposite; when people give up their pain they lose their ability to change.

Further, you gain the ability to pick up Ruin by accepting the need for end and understanding that the inevitable end does not have to be a sorrow. It’s the Death card; it’s change.

Odium is the refusal to move on, the unwillingness to forgive, the refusal to give in. When love is gone, and faith is gone and hope is gone, hatred can keep you alive. It will leave you hollow, and empty, and a shell of what you were, but it will keep you ALIVE if only to spite your enemies.

Ruin is standing by your infant girl’s bedside and knowing she may never awaken. Never smile, never laugh. And readying yourself to make the hardest choice a parent can make: to allow her to live senseless but for pain, or give her a peaceful, quiet end. When you understand that endings can be necessary; can be good, however painful - that’s Ruin.

(She woke up, btw. despite reading brain dead for three days. Still not well, but slowly getting there. She’ll be four on Thanksgiving.)

Odium is my great-grandmother looking around at her dozens of descendants and saying, with a satisfied smile, “Hitler didn’t win.” Well, some forms of vengeance are more productive than others. My children are my revenge. My community is my revenge. The voices of children speaking our sages words - that’s Odium. Not just hatred toward our oppressors, but it is definitely a form of revenge, along with everything else. 

I think a lot of chronically ill people could pick up Ruin. I think a lot of survivors of oppression could pick up Odium. I could probably pick up either, but I could also take Cultivation because I’m a mom, and I think most parents could pick up that one.

I think I’m putting Odium back in Survive. Although it can also drive you to accomplish...

I mostly put Odium in the Inspire category because I was waffling between calling it Inspire or Incite. Odium is Inspiring hatred or ‘passion’ in people. Inspire to me just means a kind of inward amplification or germination and gestation of emotions, ideas, and paradigms. Most of the Shards will cross over between Proto-Intents (tm) in some way, so it’s going to be impossible to say anything for sure until we get all of the Shardic Intents... and maybe it’ll be ambiguous even then.

I like:

Change: Cultivation, Ruin, Endowment

Survive: Preservation, Autonomy, shard-that-just-wants-to-hide

Unite: Honor, Dominion,

Inspire: Odium, Ambition, Devotion

I could see Devotion mostly in Inspire, but also in Unite.

Similarly, Autonomy mostly goes in Survive, but could be Inspire.

And Endowment is mostly Change, but also Inspire.

At the end, I just gotta say, I’m disappointed Brandon didn’t use:

Renew - Endowment, Cultivation

Act - Ambition, Odium, Autonomy, Devotion

Forge - Honor, Dominion

Overcome - Ruin, Preservation

the acronym is just too good.

Maybe the entire request should be considered. I'm talking about the little preface, "When everything else is going wrong, […]). Maybe Lift's boon of not becoming someone else only kicks in during times of extreme duress, or only when Odium's influence is around, or even only that one time when the Unmade couldn't influence her.

It's also possible that Cultivation is, as Lift accused, a liar. Or at least didn't give Lift what she asked for.

Regardless, it would seem antithetical to Cultivation's presumed Intent to make something that can't change.

As far as those saying that her Spirit or Identity may not be capable of changing... she said a Knight's Radiant Ideal. I'd say that event, and the paradigm shifts it took to get to that point, probably altered her Spirit Web. The very idea that she is, to some extent, accepting that her perceived identity (being ageless) was misguided is proof that her Spiritual sense of self is adapting and aligning with her reality.

3 hours ago, 1stBondsmith said:

What is a "casual Sanderson Reader"? Isn't that like saying you only perform subatomic particle disassembly as a hobby?

Syntax Error: Term "Casual Sanderson Reader" Does Not Compute.

I ended up getting mine at exactly 2:05 am CST, so maybe there's something to that after all.

1 minute ago, Starke777 said:

Wow, that WAS super helpful...lol. While I'm happy for all the fans out there who are reading our new favorite book, I wanna be one of those lucky people...lol. I preordered in February, I'm an Amazon Prime member, where's my love? My order page says it'l be available by 8pm and I don' even have the option to cancel my order.

Ouch. Ya I pre-ordered mine back in July. Looking online I found a guy that says his amazon.ca Kindle order a few years back was processed at 2:05am CST on the release date. That would be 35 minutes from now if the same thing applies here. Haha apparently I'm desperate if I'm looking that far abroad.

1 minute ago, Starke777 said:

Let me know how that discussion goes? I didn't even realize it'd be possible to talk to a rep at this hour!

Just edited it in. Super helpful, eh?

14 minutes ago, Starke777 said:

No kindle love for those of us on EST in Canada...resyncing my kindle every 5 seconds. My credit card hasn't even been charged yet. Last time I preorder a book with Amazon...sigh.

That's my situation. I'm from Canada so my store is synched to that. The Australian store doesn't even have the ebook for it.

I'm talking to Amazon customer service about it right now.

Service Transcript:

Her: Upon checking on the website the book will be released within this day, I will set up a personal follow up on you to make sure that you will receive the book today. ‎6‎:‎10‎:‎15‎ ‎PM

Me: thanks. Any idea on what time these things usually happen? ‎6‎:‎10‎:‎44‎ ‎PM

 

Me: I'm kind of scheduling my day around this haha ‎6‎:‎10‎:‎51‎ ‎PM

 

Her: No worries, It will be deliver within the day. Please make sure that your device is connected wirelessly to make sure that It will download automatically.

Me: Within the day in which time zone? Is this like within the next 22 hours? ‎6‎:‎14‎:‎38‎ ‎PM

Me: I'm not actually in EST, so it would help ‎6‎:‎14‎:‎53‎ ‎PM

 

Her: I can't provide an exact time but rest assured that It will deliver before the day ends.

Tried that, it only allows me to pre-order, not outright purchase it. Still says the release date is Nov. 14, 2017, with no release time. I've pre-ordered it with 2 different cards and neither worked.

Still not out on my Kindle  

I've already tried cancelling and re-ordering it with a bunch of different cards... any advise?

My Kindle pre-order still isn't coming through  

1 hour ago, bo.montier said:

So im not the only one feverishly refreshing Kindle?

You're not alone

But my kindle says it isn't out yet

46 minutes and counting.

"IT IS NOT SOMETHING I CAN DO, SON OF TANAVAST. IF THE WIND STOPS BLOWING, IT IS NOT A WIND. IT IS NOTHING."

Stormfather is basically a more literate Stick, confirmed.

On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 11:38 PM, Leyrann said:

One more thing I realized - most likely the book is named after the Shardblade. We do not know when the book is written, but if it is written by a character from the series itself (Jasnah, Dalinar, etc) then it is safe to assume that it has yet to be written; right now, however, the Shardblade is lost - Adolin threw it away and as far as we know, no one has seen it since.

So is it an older book (which I actually don't think, as I feel like we would know about the book then before getting prefaces, which was, IIRC, the case with WoK and WoR), or will Oathbringer be found? And if it is found, then who gets it? And what other consequences will there be? Will the one that gets Oathbringer end up being the writer of the book?

(of course, if Dalinar is the writer, then we can have a modern writer without needing Oathbringer to be found, but if it's anyone else, I think it is safe to assume the above)

That's one problem solved
Oathbringer given to Amaram. Maybe HE'S the author! lol

4 hours ago, retrorocket1 said:

I am pretty certain malevolent emotions are required to trigger the copycat's actions. I don't believe suicide wouldn't activate it.

 

edit:

p.s. Also really off topic but what is pahn kahl from leyrann's current rep title, i don't recognize it.

I also think that the thing in Urithiru only mimics intended violence so far. We'll need a bigger sample sign to make sure though. Would be interesting and frightening if it did turn out to be responsible for drawing in Shallan's notebook.

3 hours ago, king of nowhere said:

"if I use a shardplate as a metalmind to store an attribute, then animate it with breath, what would happen to a mistborn burning it?"

But i needz 2 nooooooooo!

Seriously though, assuming that Shardplate is capable of storing a feruchemical charge (firstly you personally would need to be able to store it in general, and even then shardplate may already be too Invested to take any charge even if it is keyed to you), you would need to find a way to unlock the Breath, possibly the plate itself, and the charged attribute for the mistborn to even consider accessing the extra Investitures, otherwise it would be the same as burning whatever the plate is made out of. That's all assuming a mistborn's spirit web would recognize shardplate as a burnable metal, and the mist orn is able to ingest the piece before its many Investitures degrade or the possible seed soaks up the Investitures in an attempt to regenerate.

I mean, uh... Yup sharders are totally indistinguishable.

Also, Ardent, you could just wear a 'welcome home' style airport sign that says 'Welcome to Newcago'.

Oh, and the red scarf idea is epic and I would totally go buy one just for this if I were in Utah.

4 minutes ago, WhiteLeeopard said:

I think I may have been the one to start the topic as you say, although not sure. Nevertheless let me clarify some things.

1. I am a woman

2. I am actually quite a feminist

3. However, my feminist ideas mean the following: I want to see women, both IRL and in fiction succeed. But. I do not want to see women suceed because they are women, so things are given to them for free. I want to see women suceed because they are good and they earn them. To give things for free to a woman "because she is a woman" isn't feminism or fairness from my POV. Its actually a huge insult to the women, as you seem to be implying they are worse than men and need to be given stuff for free to be able to gain anything. Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be a very extended view in today's world, where feminism is that women should be given everything for free even if they don't have the skills to back it up.

I haven't read many of the posts after this, so I'm not sure how the discussion has progressed.

I like your criteria and I think this is a very important discussion to have in this world we live in. I also think that - fortunately - most people on the shard seem to share similar core values and morals, with enough diversity of opinion and thought to keep discussion interesting but civil. The 17th shard is the only internet community I've engaged in that has unreservedly welcomed each new poster with positivity and grace.

All that said, I dont think the Oathbringer chapter 25-27 spoiler board is quite the place to be having this conversation. A separate thread within the spoiler board would be wonderful, since from what I've seen I think everyone involved is mature, level-headed, and empathetic enough to discuss this admittedly charged topic without hostility.

So as a non-mod with really no authority on the matter, could I please ask that future posts in this thread be centered on the content within chapters 25-27?

Thanks family

On ‎10‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 0:27 AM, Starla said:

Alrighty then. I think both @Pattern and @Aleksiel have a point. Helaran was killed in battle, and I agree that’s its often best for the grieving process if the family of the deceased does not know or come face to face with the battlefield killer of their loved one. It’s much more difficult to overcome grief and move on when you have a specific person to blame, and that person is still living. However, this is not some random battlefield killer. It’s Kaladin, and Shallan has had some vulnerable moments of trust with him in a life or death situation. I doubt it is something she can easily forget when she looks at him. 

Think of how Kaladin would respond if he met the soldier who killed Tien on the battlefield. He’d want to kill that man, or at the very least he would feel a deep hatred for him, just as he does for Amaram, Sadeas, and Roshone, all of whom played a role in harming people he cares about. Logical, rational thought goes out the window when it comes to loss of loved ones. This is just speculation, but I imagine Kaladin feels awful knowing that he killed Shallan’s brother. He probably expects Shallan to hate him, just as he hates that random soldier that stuck a spear through Tien. I doubt he wants to think about it, much less face the look of hatred on her face when she knows the truth. 

That being said, I think there is a great opportunity for healing and growth here, for both of them. If Shallan can forgive Kaladin for killing Helaran, can she forgive herself for killing her mother and father? And if she can forgive him, can he forgive those who killed his brother and his men, and forgive himself for not saving them? Between the two of them, Kaladin and Shallan have killed half of her family. That’s some crazy reality to face, but I think facing it is a huge step they both need to take. They both killed in self defense, and in defense of those they love. At this point, I feel that the only way Shallan can progress as a radiant is to realize it’s not her fault, that she’s not a despicable murderer, and forgive herself. Forgiving Kaladin is a step in that direction. It might take time, but I think they are both strong enough to get through it and eventually make peace with the whole situation.

My internal monologue for Kaladin:
"A shock ran through him as he realized, Oh Stormfather! I killed her Tien..." *sobs and can never look Shallan in the eyes again*

Disclaimer: At no point does this internal monologue represent real persons or opinions. It is fully a work of imagination that is not based in reality.

2 hours ago, Toaster Retribution said:

Am I the only one who thinks of Peter, one of the apostles, when seeing these keys? He is supposed to hold the keys to heaven. Maybe Vedel held the keys to Urithiru or the Tranquilline Halls?

I'm definitely going to get triggered every time I see a keyhole now lol

I asked about Vedeledev's golden keys at Supanova awhile ago:

Darkness: haha ok. What’s the story behind Vedeledev’s Golden Keys, or are we going to hear it?

Brandon: Vedeledev’s Golden Keys are more of a mythological thing like the sword that forbad people from entering the Garden of Eden, things like this that, they have existed but they’re more symbolic… (ok) does that make sense?

10 minutes ago, Head Crabs said:

Inquisitive Spren

Inquisispren. 

 

Though since glys is actually inkspren the dustbringer spren could be something we wouldnt even think of. Maybe keenspren? Power so fine and "keen" that it can sever chemical bonds releasing energy and creating fire? Keenness (dear almighty, i hope i spelled that word correctly) would also probably be an attribute in line with a desire to know what's inside of a thing. 

I think you're thinking of Ivory, not Glys.

7 hours ago, Aleksiel said:

I mostly agree with you, however I think it's a stretch to call it 'modern' considering it became the social norm soon after the Recreanse,  thus it's centuries old dogma, so there is no reason to narrow it down to contemporary authors only:

 

 

 

That's fair. Our definition of the word 'modern' connotes a period of time within this generation. I will edit it to "post-recreance".

4 minutes ago, ScavellTane said:

Could Iyatil be a Kandra?

As Brandon would say, "Anyone could be a Kandra". 

5 minutes ago, Hari said:

Cool  one thing I cannot see Jasnah agreeing is this:

Jasnah is like a scientist believing in objective facts/truths which she explains to Shallan in TWoK..

Sure, but she also prods Shallan into delving deeper and thinking about things critically. She speaks disparagingly about scholars over-presenting or wilfully misrepresenting cases, but she seems to value well-formed opinions based on objective truth.