Meandering Monotreme

From them, or from us? I doubt their first meeting will be very positive. Remember, Shallan's a lighteyes, and Kaladin has a grudge against all lighteyes (and particularly bad experiences in dealing with young, attractive, female lighteyes).

We actually have no idea how he will react to a young, attractive, female lighteyes. We don't know whether he associates his pain with Laral or not. My guess? Shallan will turn out to look a lot like Laral and will distract Kaladin. Other than that I have no idea.

I actually think that (assuming the counterclockwise numbering is right) Jasnah and Shallan share a power and are therefore either #5 and #6 or #7 and #6, respectively. #5 doesn't fit Jasnah--if it was, she would be much better at living things (properties being wood, plants, moss; people can soulcast food out of its gemstone, emerald) so Jasnah is probably #7, Betab. Let us check: oil doesn't conflict with anything she does, and she is wise, and we have no basis for whether or not she is careful. For now, it works out perfectly!

If you take the most baseless Parshendi theory ever into consideration, then you realize that Tien is a KR--just a Parshendi one.

I have to point out that it makes perfect sense for Jasnah to be order 2 and Shallan to be order 6. Look at the picture on the cover. It is a picture of the orders (the big circles)and how they are connected to the powers (the small circles). I would assume that orders 5 and 6 are in the center, and if you number it in a boustrophedon way (down the first column, up the next, down the third) then the powers coincide perfectly.

That doesn't quite work. Why would "being honorable" mean "training Alethi for the Final Desolation"? And why only the Alethi? There are many other places that would benefit from training as well. Besides, who would think of that? "Oh, we need to get Alethkar to the point where it can defend itself, so we will make them our sworn enemies and fight them, possibly decimating our or their armies. That makes perfect sense!" And besides, this is completely ignoring Jasnah's warning.

If Taravangian wanted Jasnah dead, wouldn't he have just used Szeth? He has no problem using Szeth to kill her uncle, and even specified that it would need to be bloody, and Szeth is currently in town. Using an ardent to try to get close to Jasnah (even through Shallan) strikes me as underestimating her and a little naive. Taravangian doesn't strike me as the type to underestimate an opponent or to play the political games the Ghostbloods seem to be playing in Jah Keved/Alethkar. He is bloody and ruthless and believes fully that the ends justify the means. If he wanted Jasnah dead, she would have been hit with something a lot better planned than a (fake?) ardent with poisoned bread. And especially not one with a tattoo of his organization.

In short, I don't think Taravangian is a Ghostblood.

I don't think that Jasnah's death was very high on the Ghostbloods list. I think that Kabsal was probably not given many orders--his only order was probably "kill Jasnah" and he underestimated her. Evidence: the whole Shallan thing was obviously not planned, and it was a really bad assasination attempt. Honestly? I think the attempt was originally Kabsal trying to kill Jasnah, but his visits to Shallan were mostly to see Shallan. He put the Jasnah thing on the back burner. Back to the Ghostbloods, he was probably sent as a warning, that she is on the Ghostbloods' death list but not high enough to send real assasins. Kabsal was probably a message.

Wow, I didn't know Taravangian was that hard to spell. Or are you just using random 4–6-syllable words starting with T and throwing in a g, v, and n or possibly m? It could be a repeating joke, like the pterodactyl in Alcatraz.

I just was too lazy to actually look, so I made up a spelling. I did what I always do with long names: I notice what the name looks like, and then I know what the book is talking about all the other times. Therefore, I had no idea at all how to spell it. While talking about the book with my siblings, I realized I needed a way to pronounce the name, so I for some reason pronounced it "Tav-mee-grat-an" but don't ask why.

EDIT: My spelling error is now fixed.

EDIT: WOW, this doesn't make sense. This is what happens when you reply to the first page of a two-page thread. Oops. I was responding to Mad Scientist's last post of the first page. My points still stand, though. (I for some reason have a problem changing my work, so additions are bold).

Sorry about my horrible Elantris references--I haven't read it in awhile, and I am too lazy to search through it (I don't have that much time to make my response, and it would take awhile if I searched through Elantris while making it).

Didn't the evil person in Elantris use a different focus to do the same thing? He used his tatoos, which I remember as not having Aons on them. If I'm not just making this up, that kind of destroys the either the specificity thing or the omnipresence thing (I'm going for omnipresense, it makes a lot more sense).

In your original argument, you pointed out that it would require more than one spren to have the same affect. That isn't true. You can bash this theory with either exclusivity or specificity, but not both, and you tried to use both. Either more than one spren does the same thing, or there is just a whole lot of overlap.

I think that there is just a whole lot of overlap. You complained about that, but is overlap a bad thing? You can use, to some extent, Bendalloy to let you dodge bullets, and you can use atium for the same thing. Is that bad? No, because there is more to each power than that.

My biggest problem with spren not being the focus: what is the focus, then? You've done a lot of bashing on that idea, but you haven't given a replacement. Stormlight, gemstones--neither of them work. There is nothing other than spren that fits. Nothing that you guys have said works the way spren does.

In a completely different thing, the Ideals seems like a good way of getting powers. Then the method of getting powers isn't the method of using them! However, that statement is just a random comment: not necessarily true, not necessarily false.

Welcome, newcomer! (Newcomer being relative to someone who has been here awhile, and therefore not me.)

Hi! I'm Tangletalon, and I love fantasy. If you want me to be more specific, I love Brandon Sanderson. If Sandersonism was a religion, I would be a Sandersonist. WoK is my bible, as in I read it again and again, assuming every word has meaning and actually finding meaning in every word. Now, about my interests in the fake--I mean, non-WoK--world.

I love math. When I say I "love" math, I mean I do math in my spare time, when I'm boared. When I am being attacked by an angry boar, I do math. I love math almost as much as I love reading (although not as much as I love Brandon Sanderson).

I also love reading. I have more trouble deciding if something is a bad book than most (if I decide a fantasy book is a bad book, it is often because someone has told me it is). I like some teen fiction (Rick Riorden, Diane Duane) as well as the Inheritance cycle and, of course, Robert Jordan, and, most of all, Brandon Sanderson. I actually don't as much as I would like to, because I have trouble finding books to read. Even if I go to the bookstore, I am very cynical and will usually assume that I won't like the book.

So yeah, now you know about me. RESPOND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did I mention that I am completely yet figuratively insane?

Back to talking about the Szeth vs Kaladin stuff: I'm not sure how someone who recently discovered his powers and wields a spear could defeat someone who wields a shardblade and has honed his powers for a lifetime. I don't think Kaladin would win that battle without help--but I can easily imagine Shallan helping him. It would be an awesome scene at the very least. However, neither Szeth nor Dalinar can die, because they both get viewpoints, and besides: I don't want any of the VP characters of SA 1 to die off in SA 2.

About who's getting the major viewpoint in SA 2: Hasn't Brandon said that he has started leaning towards Shallan?

My thought, however, is that they might not be a part of Honor at all. At least, not Shardblades. Honorblades, which we know to be totally different, ARE part of Honor I think.

Shardblades, however, have always been somewhat sinister. The black, smoking eyes...The propensity for people to em, their use as an engine of destruction...

If you ask me, I think they are either splinters of, or the physical form of ODIUM, and not Honor at all.

Wait, Honorblades are the Herald's weapons, right?

And while it sounds like a cool idea, it doesn't seem right. Ati lost most of his power with his atium, and Odium is "the most powerful of the sixteen": it seems like he wouldn't be so powerful with just part of his body. Also, splintering a shard seems to destroy it, in a way. No one can own it.

I was re-reading WoK and came across Kabsal's notes. It lead me to question who he was. He obviously wasn't just an assassin--he did care about symmetry. That got me wondering about Ghostbloods. So I will say things about the Ghostbloods that we know and things that are just my speculation. (And some things are just comments that are not related to this, but I say because they come up.)

• Kabsal is a Ghostblood. He tries to kill Jasnah. He does this by way of Shallan, who he gets feelings for. While talking to Shallan, he talks about things he cares about, like the symmetry of Roshar. Speaking of symmetry, does anyone else think it strange that the word "Roshar" is not symmetrical?
  
• Thaidakar is implied to be a Ghostblood. When the Shardbearer comes, everyone things Thadikar sent it (was Amaram fighting against Thadikar?) and he apparently wants to kill Gavilar but was beat to the punch by the Parshendi. ("You can tell Thadikar that he is too late...")
  
• Speaking of which, the Shardbearer might be a Ghostblood. I don't remember it being stated, but it was implied.
  
• Shallan's father is a Ghostblood (what is her father's name, anyway?) He also could soulcast the normal way, are these related?
  
• Speculation: Taravangian is a Ghostblood? It would make the choice of targets more understandable: Thadikar wanted to kill Gavilar for the same reason Taravangian wants to kill Dalinar. But this is just speculation.
  

Any thoughts?