MirkerLurker
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that's really sweet, thank you. Hi! I probably won't be on often, but yeah, I'm back! I appreciate that you want to ask questions and help. But in this case, I'm going to keep working it out with just the people involved - talking to too many people and getting mixed messages and mixed opinions caused some of the poor communication that started all this That's not a reflection on you though - thanks for asking! No, not permanent, and yes, we can talk a little.
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Other people who commented: Hey guys, Mirker here. It’s been a while. Sorry to drag up an older post. If I tagged you, it's because you commented on what I'm addressing, but you can skip this, and anybody else can skip this too. I'll spoiler it for length and to not drag the whole thread into this.
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I am leaving the Shard for a while, a few months at least. If you want to get a hold of me, I check discord a couple times a week usually. Username Protochaud, same profile pic as here. (Just let me know who you are if you have a different username than here haha).
I am going now. I bid you all a very fond farewell.
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Hey guys. I am leaving the Shard for a while. There's some stuff going on, so I won't be checking notifications on here for a few months at least. If you want to get a hold of me, I can occasionally be found on discord, username Protochaud. My profile picture is the same as the one here on the shard, so you'll know it's me. I usually check that a couple times a week. Please continue supporting each other. This group is valuable. And here are hugs to be doled out as needed: *hug* *hug* *HUG* *squiz* And with that, I am going now. I bid you all a very fond farewell.
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*hug* Panic attacks are scary; and sometimes embarrassing, and confusing, and exhausting, and lots more. I'm glad they let you leave to take a break. Music can be a field with a lot of pressure; even if you love it, it can be very stressful. *more hug* So I found this online today: And I located the actual PDF here: https://qprinstitute.com/pdfs/Forever_Decision.pdf It seems like something that we should all have tucked in a back pocket, whether for ourselves or for someone else. I've started it, and I like the way the author talks directly to and respectfully about people who think about suicide.
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Hey all, I know I'm resurrecting the post, but I'd be sad to see it die because it shifted too deeply into religion. So! I just want to say that we don't need to turn this into a discussion of religion/Christianity. We went that direction because HoidSlayer asked, and I love that we can talk about that on here - but we don't need to stay there. We're definitely not gonna find the answers and come to a conclusion with a few comments on the internet. I enjoy digging through historical evidence for and against the Bible and Christianity, but that's not where we started, and y'all don't need to enjoy it the way I do. If you don't want to respond to my religion stuff, go ahead and change the subject. We can jump around on subjects - back to "is there objective truth" or "what is math" or intro a new question to debate. We're not gonna solve anything here, but it's enjoyable to discuss things. Agnostic is the word for that. "I neither believe nor disbelieve in God; I believe only that which can be proven through material phenomena, and therefore neither accept nor refute the idea of a God, as there is no (or insufficient) material evidence either way." -
Yay! You're very welcome.
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It's not weakness to need or want support from people you trust. It's normal, and healthy. However, the counterpoint to that is different then you might expect. It's not "It's strength to let your walls down and let people in." Which might sound counter to what Taln said, so let me explain, because I agree with what he said. It takes courage to let your walls down, to trust people, to lean on them. But as you've noticed, it can also be easy to rely on them too much; to dump too much them, to ask for more than they can give, and end up feeling like you described - weak, fallen down, useless. But we need to lean on each other; we're built for community, for connection and support. So how do we navigate that? Communication and mutual support. Check in with your friends. Just like how sometimes you're engaged, consistent, and functional, and sometimes you're not, they will sometimes not be in a good space to support you. Not because you are too much, or too weak, but because they are humans with human needs and struggles. And sometimes they will be able to support you. So check in and ask. "Hey, I'm really struggling. Can I vent to you for a bit?" Or "I know I've been leaning on you a lot lately. Let me know if you need some space to take care of yourself, ok?" Bonus: this gives you the opportunity to support them in return. You are showing them you care about them and letting them feel listened to by checking in with them. And when they say there's other things going on, you have the opportunity to offer them a shoulder to lean on, or a listening ear, or alone space if that's what they need. So it takes courage to take down your walls. But it takes strength to build bridges. Side tangent: It's ok to be there for someone intermittently. I know we all want to be there for each other all the time, whenever we're needed. But we're not always able to be there, for a number of reasons; and that's ok. Especially here on the shard, we have a group; if one person isn't able to engage for whatever reason, there's others who can step in and support whoever needs it. And even irl, it's ok, and healthy!, to be able to say to friends "I need to take some quiet space for a bit, get myself recentered and whatnot. I'll call you/message you when I'm up for talking." But that last part is key - communicate it! Even if it's not until after the fact, let them know that you love them and support them even though you come and go. Communicate. And you're not useless for messing up, or doing it wrong, or trusting too much or leaning too hard or falling down. The strongest link in a chain is the one that broke and has been repaired. The work you put into learning from your failures and repairing things that went wrong is work that builds those bridges between you and your friends; and the stronger those bridges are, the better you can both support each other. Creative mode. Go hog wild.
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Huh. That's fair. Yeah, at the end of the day, the only way to fully know what happens when we die is to experience it and find out. Which, obviously, doesn't help. Hard to lay out proof of theories for something we can't observe or experience. But we can talk theories of death and general reasons behind them. We made a second forum for side conversations that stem from the mental health discussion forum here; might be appropriate to move "theories of what happens after death" over there? There's another conversation started there, about is there any such thing as absolute truth, but that's stalled and can def be interrupted. The idea of the thread was "hey, turns out taking about mental health often leads to discussing philosophy and other stuff, let's make a thread for those discussions." But that thread gets less traffic, so if you wanna leave the discussion here where it gets seen more, I'd say that's fine? *shrug* I don't really know forum etiquette all that well. My beliefs about death are heavily influenced by my religious beliefs, so me talking theories would be as much a discussion of religion as of death, given that I imagine I'd have to defend the belief in religion before using it as an explanation for post-death theories. ...which I actually gave a bit of that in the other thread, though that was a bit of a tangent from the original topic. Here, I'm gonna link that thread here, and you can engage if you want. I'm happy to tell you what I think happens after death and why if you want to talk about religion. I'm not offended if you don't though - I'm offering, not insisting. Bugs the crem out of me when people try to force or be pushy with beliefs. ...that was a lot of words to not actually say much. Anyway, here's a link to that other thread. There's not much on it. https://www.17thshard.com/forums/topic/200210-topics-taken-out-of-the-mental-health-club-for-spaceother-reasons/
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"This in itself has sent me into a lot of downward spirals of crippling doubt but it never causes any real problems mostly." Are spirals of crippling doubt not a real problem? (In your opinion. I have my own, but yours is the one that matters when it comes to your own mind.) Another question to ask: Would you like this fear to change, to go away? Or are you ok with things staying the way they are? When you decided to post here on the forum, was there a result you were hoping for? A change in yourself, in how you view that fear or in how much you spiral in doubt? A change in relationship maybe - finding empathy and support for your struggle, but not necessarily a change in the struggle itself? A language point that may be helpful to consider in this discussion: Rather than looking at a fear as "rational" or "irrational", reframe to "healthy" or "unhealthy". A healthy fear is one that...well, helps keep you healthy; that helps you avoid harm to yourself or others. An unhealthy fear is one that is disruptive or harmful to you or others. A general fear of death is absolutely healthy - as you said, it keeps you alive, which is healthy. An overactive or too-strong fear of death could be unhealthy for a person. I consider mental health to be part of "health", so if the fear is resulting in strong mental struggle, then it's unhealthy; and also, stress in the brain has a number of effects on the physical body, so there's physical harm too. (That ties into my questions to you - would you consider your fear of death to be healthy or unhealthy? Obviously if you consider it healthy, you're not looking to change it. I assumed you were looking to change it, but I should have asked that first, my bad.) I can see the logic in your fear. I don't have the same emotional reaction to those thoughts myself, but I can at least see logically how you get there, and sympathize with it.
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That's wonderful. I love it. Very accurate.
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*hug* I don't have words for you right now. Just empathy, and companionship. We can sit here broken together. It's better than broken alone.
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First preface: I am not a professional counselor. None of my responses are trained researched positions. Second, that sounds like something you should ask a trained counselor about. Find someone who uses an approach to counseling that suits your personality - you're not looking for gentle support, you're looking for direct "let's pull this apart and fix it" from the sound of your post. (I don't remember the names of the various types of therapy...Taln might, he might be able to recommend a specific style to look for. All I can remember is cognitive behavioral therapy, and I don't think that's what you want.) If your insurance needs a 'diagnosis' to approve counseling, get a regular dr appointment and ask about a referral for anxiety. If you have a crippling fear - something that is interfering with daily life activities, on a regular or semi-regular basis - then you can use that label. Ok, that's out of the way. Now to personal response. Why is that fear logical? What is it about death that scares you?
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Droppin' in belatedly, as usual, here is MirkerLurker with various thoughts. First off: I'm really glad you got a dr appointment scheduled. Secondly, I am religious (tho not LDS), and have also had doubts about my faith, and have advice. Find someone in your religion, someone more mature and experienced in their faith than you are, who you can talk to about doubts - who you can ask questions, be listened to, and have your questions treated seriously and answered seriously. (Whether the answer is clear or not; sometimes it's about working through confusing information, not about seeing obvious clear answers.) Asking questions about your faith is HEALTHY. Finding those answers - actually learning and working through them, not being told "just trust it" - strengthens your faith and grows your confidence and self-image. And I know saying "Find someone you can safely ask potentially volatile questions to" is not easily done. But it's SO WORTH IT. It sounds like your parents are not those people for you. I don't know the other adults in your church, so I don't know who to recommend - your bishop maybe?? - but I will point out that a great way to start the conversation, and get your parents to be ok with you having conversations like this, is telling them you want to prepare for your patriarchal blessing by talking about it with some of the adults in the church. And then do that - pick a couple of people you think might be good people to talk to, and start with the subject of the blessing and your uncertainties there, and see if you can go from there into more general doubts and confusion. It is normal to find that the worldview you were raised with is conflicting with what you start to believe as you grow into an adult. Part of adulthood is learning to work through and reconcile those clashes. And I strongly suggest getting advice on how to do that, from people you consider wise. Additional note: Seeing a counselor may also be a helpful thing for you, sorting through mental health issues. However, counselors are not a good place to ask about religious doubts; they are required to be neutral on the issue, regardless of what they personally believe. Which is good - it's important that they provide a space safe for anyone to receive counseling. But even if the dr appointment results in you getting counseling - which I hope you at least get the option! - you should still also seek out faith advice from someone else. Finally, *HUG* That's rough. *hug* You can always vent here. I know you know that, but I'll reassure it anyway. Also, I feel you on "feeling that my mental problems are less than others". Yyyep. On that note: it doesn't matter if it's minor or major: if it needs talking about, it needs talking about. It doesn't help any of us to compare who has it "worse"; instead, we can help each other regardless of how bad any individual has it. When we share it, it all lessens. A small injury that only needs 3 stitches isn't "as bad" as a big one that needs 20 stitches; but that doesn't mean the small one didn't need treatment. Or that it would be fine if ignored. Isn't it awesome when you find music that matches and it actually makes it better?! It's so weird, but it works. Like...I'm not alone. Someone else gets it. It's not just in my head, because it's out there too. And sometimes they phrase it better than I ever could, and that helps too. "Oh. That. That's how to describe it." Unasked-for suggestion on forgetting, ignore if you want: Do you have a phone or digital device that you can set reminders on? I would not function without my phone yelling at me about things. Seriously - I once missed three dr appointments in two weeks, because I couldn't remember them. (First the regular one, then the rescheduled one, then the rescheduling of the rescheduled one. The office was...rather upset with me.) Phone calendar notifications mostly solved that. And note-taking - write down the things you're supposed to do later in a note app, and add a time reminder to read the list again. Also: consider talking to a dr - memory issues are a common side effect of depression and some other mental health things. Addressing the root cause may help as well.
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Hawks - i forgot to quote your post, but oh man. I'm sorry. *hug* Hugs for everyone else too! *big group hug* *clears throat* the word you want is "irregardless".
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For a lighthearted change of topic: What healing and growth often feel like
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Hello and welcome! Hoid Slayer gave a pretty good summary of what we do in here for spooky up there, but yeah, we hang out and support each other - through listening, commiserating, celebrating, advising, and laughing together. Most...ok probably all...of us are neurodivergent in some way out other. Safe space! Sometimes talking about unrelated stuff helps. Getting your head out of all the stuff you've been dealing for a bit. Be there for him, yeah. And check what kind of support he needs at various times - sometimes he might need someone to be vulnerable with and open up to, sometimes he might need to talk about unrelated random things to escape the emotions for a bit and regain a sense of normalcy, sometimes he might need to sit quietly without taking. He also might not know what he wants or needs at the moment, which is normal and fine. But asking "do you want to vent, or just sit, or can I help by chattering about my day?" lets him know you're caring for him, even if he doesn't have an answer.
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A lot of neurodivergent people eat as a form of sensory seeking. To self soothe (when stressed) or self regulate (when bored) emotions. Quite common. It's also common to end up with health issues as a result of doing that. Keep an eye on your fitness and health, and if the eating habit causes problems, try to find alternative sensory experiences. Chew on other things, crinkle something between your fingers, whatever works. But if it's not causing problems, it's fine. Hello! Welcome to the welcoming weird people club!
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Well there we go...wait, it was a rhetorical question, wasn't it. Well, here, have a hug. *hug* Ah, it's almost like you chose your username for that likeness or something! Imagine that.
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lolol. If you can convince your brain to go back to not caring about boys, please go right ahead! Also, share your secret, there's so many people who want it haha. And don't worry about processing it, honestly. It doesn't need to make sense. Romantic feelings/relationships are one of the weirdest, most illogical things we encounter. Keep whatever promises you make, and you're pretty much fine. Since I don't know the specifics, a couple of ideas: Your friends were stressed or sharing struggles and you were there for them/helped them, which fulfils you emotionally because you helped, but also drains you/depresses you because of the general stress and tension you were working in. Your friends were having fun, you were having fun, it was good, you were happy, it was filling; but now you're home, they're not here, and you're right back to as empty as you were before, only now you have the fresh memory of having not been empty for a brief time, and the emptiness feels that much colder by comparison, and you wonder how you went straight back to it despite the warmth that was there, and if it made any real difference at all or if you will go through your life unable to ever hold onto anything, grasping at fleeting moments that fade away the moment you touch them.
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Oh, I don't mean that you can't or won't rekindle the feeling if you come back to it - more that, for that year you weren't in contact with him, the feeling didn't grow, or really even be important to you. You formed a crush on someone else in the meantime, because you weren't devoting your energy and time to thinking about and loving the first guy. I mean, that's not the only reason. But it's related. Aaaand...that sucks. I sorry. *hug*
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Oop. Welp...hey, now you didn't have to worry about how to tell them!
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Alright, a short amount of digging results in the following: The argument that we have more historical evidence for Jesus than for Caesar comes from the age of the earliest manuscripts for their respective sources. Caesar: Has three contemporary sources (purportedly written when person was alive): the writings of Cicero, of Sallust, and of course Caesar himself; and two strong later sources, Suetonius and Plutarch. This provides a strong confirmation of the authenticity of the events, given that there are separate people from the same time writing about them. The weakness of them comes from the age of the manuscripts we have. Caesar's writings are translated from 12 main manuscripts, dating to between the ninth and twelfth centuries. So the earliest of those is still from some 900 years after the death of Caesar. Sallust is translated from about 20 manuscripts from the 10th and 11th centuries. Cicero is an older source, with 15 manuscripts ranging from the fifth to ninth centuries. In short, there is a very large time gap in between when the writings were first written down, and when we have documents we can date with those writings. Jesus: Has no truly contemporary sources. Has multiple sources from the first century (so within 100 years of his life) - almost the entire New Testament, some of which was written as early as 20 years after his death, along with the non-christian writer Flavius Josephus - and looking into the early second century also gives us Tacitus and Lucian among others. Lucian in particular is of note as the writings of his that mention Jesus are not only non-christian, but are outright mockery of christianity - and his writings confirm the life and crucifixion of Jesus. This is a driving point in the argument of the real existence of Jesus - even his enemies, both during his time and after, do not attempt to claim he didn't exist. It was a fully accepted fact in the immediate time period, to the point where why would you bother arguing it. The Jewish leaders of the time argued vehemently against his claims, but not against his existence. The Talmud itself contains record of his crucifixion. Manuscript-wise: The earliest surviving manuscript piece of the New Testament we have is P52, which contains a fragment of the Gospel of John, which dates to the early second century. So around 100 years after Jesus' death. There are 11 manuscripts dated to the 2nd or 3rd century. P46 contains a respectable chunk of text - multiple letters (as in sending mail, not as in a-b-c letters) - as opposed to P52, which is a tiny little fragment whose importance is strictly that it dates so early and thus gives evidence of the gospel actually being written down that early. Overall, we have much older manuscripts for Jesus - and also many more of them. There's a much more easily traced line of manuscripts, leading back much closer to when Jesus lived, than there is for Caesar. I digress a bit. The point is, saying "more evidence for Christ than Caesar" isn't really a clear-cut "definitely more for this one than the other". So I'll drop that as a "statement of fact", when it's really more an interesting comparison to think about. Caesar has contemporary writings and external confirmation, Jesus has a much smaller time gap between time of writings and extant manuscripts. But I think it still supports my original point, which is that there is a lot of historical evidence for Jesus. Alexander the Great: 5 main sources, all of which are written 150-350 years after Alexander's death. I haven't looked into the manuscript dates for those yet, so I don't know how close to that our earliest extant manuscripts are. But it's late in my time zone, so I'll come back to that...probably not tomorrow, but hopefully Saturday. Plato: I ran out of time searching through things about Caesar. Haven't found Plato in the notes yet. It's possible I misremembered and it's Socrates that the claim about "more evidence" is made for. I will, again, come back to that later. This is the actual comparison between Jesus and Caesar (textually) that I found, though I read through several other tangentially related things too: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/sources-for-caesar-and-jesus-compared/ I used this for papyrus dates: https://biblearchaeologyreport.com/2019/02/15/the-earliest-new-testament-manuscripts/
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On Pascal's Wager: It's not so much a problem with the wager itself as it is a problem with how many people try to use it. Pascal's Wager argues for belief. In what? Unspecified. It can be used as part of an argument for any religion, but not as the whole argument. Dragonheir listed it with other additional reasons. Used in practical debate, Pascal's Wager argues that it's worth putting the time and thought into researching religions. That it's worth caring about. As for sources: I shall begin digging! This will take me a bit of time, but I'll see what I come up with. I'll look into all three, because if I'm putting the time into sourcing one, might as well source all three. I'll start with the lesson notes from one of the preachers I've listened to and see what his sources are, and branch out from there. (I'm starting with his stuff because he actually publishes his notes, making it easier to trace his sources.) I'll acknowledge up front that the Julius Caesar claim is the one I'm most skeptical of as well. I will add as a preface to whatever I come back with: I am looking not just at how many texts we have and what kind of source are they (primary, secondary, etc), but at how certain we are that those texts are legitimate. Textual criticism. (You're right - we don't have any texts written by Jesus' own hand, no primary source, so there's a stronger weight on the writings of Caesar. I'll try to find a comparison of the textual criticism between Caesar's writings and the 4 gospels.)
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Yep. Totally possible. Common, even. Relationships are about choice more than feelings. Sure, they start with feelings. But feelings are whimsical and unreliable, easily influenced. If there's someone you're interested in, and you spend a lot of time with them, seek them out all the time, that spark will grow. If there's someone you're interested in, but you don't spend time with them, don't interact with them, that spark will fade. Slowly, sure, but growth and fading happen by choice. All of which to say, yeah that's totally normal, also no help to you whatsoever as to who to actually choose just don't feel like there's someone wrong with you, k? And hey, maybe neither of them ends up being who you choose - that's also fine.
