Wyrmhero

That isn't a reason to vote for Jene alongside him. My vote stands.

In the immortal words of Braon Blessed, "IS THERE ANYONE IN ROME ON THIS SHIP WHO IS NOT A GUNNER?!" As I said, even if Kal Dell was innocent, we get information from that lynch. It's a shame to lose a Gunner, but that's what they're there for - soaking up kills, and Kal Dell managed to get three of our lynches. Of course, whether that's a good thing or not comes down to whether or not you think that we would have got a Mutineer instead, but regardless. Mailliw asked why I voted for him on days two and three. Well, on day two I just wanted to talk to him. I then removed my vote before anyone else posted the same way, so I don't think you can accuse me of attempting to lead a lynch on him. Day 3, I voted for him though, certainly. I was heading off to bed, saw that the Kal Dell vote was heading somewhere, but a no-lynch could still have been reached at that point. I agreed that he was suspicious, so I put my vote on him, reasoning that if he did indeed defend himself well, then the many people on after me would easily be able to turn the vote around. I did not vote for him on day 4, however, because that vote was well and truly on the way. We have three people 'confirmed' as Gunners - Well, more two confirmed and one not. Why do you think that one of them has to be evil, Mailliw? There's no reason for you to say that other than making the assumption that one of them has to be evil. Why do you think that this is Jene, since you haven't put any reasoning there other than that? You've voted for him before, so you must have a reason other than this, and I would like to hear it, or at least for you to restate it. Now. Panda. What bandwagon? What reasons? Where was your reply to my point yesterday? Why vote for someone who was attacked the previous night? Or is that meant to be a vote for Jene, in which case what are your reasons for doing so? In short, tell us what in Damnation's name you're thinking before you vote. Or else you may find that's all the reason people need to vote for you.

I was about to head off, then I realised I hadn't actually made a vote. I have no idea how the voting's currently panning out specifically, but from a glance I can tell that Kal has been pretty successfully bandwagoned - Whether by Loyal or Mutineers though, I can't really say. On the bright side, if Kal is confirmed to be Loyal, then at least that tells us a lot about our assumptions. Matim has replied, so I'm relatively alright with that. Tempted to accuse again because the answer isn't 'change your voting strategy just so it doesn't match anyone else's'. People changing their strategy halfway through just brings waves of suspicion on them for inconsistancy, particularly if your reason for not voting with your honest suspicious is because someone else has voted the same way. However, I do want Jain to explain his voting shenanigans, and so I will vote for him overnight. Not sure how effective this will be in getting a discussion, but I think it's worth a shot considering the poor quality of his previous explanation.

Honestly Riitii, I just wanted to provoke discussion from you about it a bit, nothing more. I don't really suspect you, but I wanted to hear your thoughts. And people really should be asked questions no matter how trustworthy they seem. So I hope you'll forgive me for that. It did however show something quite interesting. This makes another vote with no reasoning coming out of it from Matim. I want to hear their reasoning, but it seems they've hauled anchor and sailed away for the moment. Of particular interest is that this is the second time they've joined in on a vote in progress. I also want Jain to explain why that's a shenanigan vote. I mean, plenty of others voted for Kal before. You could've just used their reasoning, but you instead chose to make it appear random. Why? Bah, why must everyone I want to question be on a different timezone to me? While I remember, Mai, what did you say back to Kai? I suspect that either the Mutineers simply didn't purchase a Grappling Hook the previous cycle, or someone Loyal got there first, Riingar. I doubt they'd buy it and not use it.

Storm it, I want to downvote you Kal Dell even if it isn't your fault... Perhaps it was reaching a little too high to try and make a PS4/XboxOne game on an entirely untested IP (when it comes to games, that is). In general terms, it has a lot to compete against, and the fact that it'd be the newest gen would mean it'd cost quite a bit to develop. If they don't think it would be worth developing at that cost or use of resources at this moment in time, then that's just the way of the market, sadly... It might be better to start with a smaller sort of PC or phone game (when I say 'phone game', note that I don't mean microtransactions). Just starting off small and then building up might work well, as you could then use the revenue and interest generated by the smaller games to develop the larger ones. I've discussed a lot with Kas about how easy (ideas-wise, rather than actually making it) it would be to create a simulation-style game based on the concept of a House War on Scadrial, or a war between Alethi Highprinces. Actually, come to think of it, the easiest sort of game that you could make would probably be a CYOA or text-parsing game based on the books and events within. It wouldn't be taxing resource-wise, as the core of the idea would be the story behind it rather than fancy graphics or devising game mechanics. In this way, it builds upon something which we all know is the strongest foundation that any Cosmere game could be based upon while introducing a few new ideas and possibly spreading interest outside of these forums and the usual readers.

His half-brother was dead. This was perhaps the only time that Wyrm wasn't going to lie about something - he wasn't lying about his sadness for his passing. Instead he just sat there on the edge of the ship, balancing on it, looking out at the sea where they had buried him. The only thing that cheered him up slightly was watching Kal climb back up the ship, drenched with sea water. It provoked a small smile on his face, but that went away pretty quickly as he remembered what had happened. He'd find those damned Mutineers, not just for his captain now, but for Kai. At least he didn't have to deal with his brother's imaginary ferret, he thought to himself as he broke a biscuit apart absentmindedly and dropped a few of the crumbs into his (rather full) shirt pocket. Well, at least he got a Python reference off before he died. It's the way he would have wanted to go. Still, goodbye brother. I'm loathe to use that logic there, Mai, particularly since if we follow it there's no reason why you're not the Mutineer trying to convince us to lynch the other two just to get rid of their extra lives. Jeno's continuing to place votes without enough time to justify them, which isn't good to see. I want to know why Jatae decided to join in on the massive bandwagon as well, after saying that he 'didn't want to do the Mutineers game again'. Well, if you thought they could have been innocent but voted for them anyway, then you just did. It's a shame that most of the people I want to talk to are off... I think I'd like to question Riitii a bit at the moment. Not only has he voted for the eventual lynchers for each of the three days so far, but he's not really been questioned about his actions so far. In addition to that, his little charts are a very good way to bend people to your way of thinking without them realising it. So, Riitii, where are you on your chart? Also, does a Buckler prevent a lynch, anyone/Meta? Is it possible that Kal saw he was going to die and bought one to protect himself, then claimed that he was a Gunner (not that this makes him either innocent or guilty)?

Well, I'm about to head off, and still no reply from Jeno... Rather vexing, because I do really want him to explain what his reasoning was. The question is whether or not I think moving my vote is a good idea, considering there's still about a quarter of the day left. All I could really do is bandwagon on Kal or Jene's vote, and that's not exactly a great thing to do when there's still lots of discussion to be had. I could not respond to any arguments that either of them put forth, but the same is true of whoever I vote for. Jene at least has spoken about things, but Kal seems to be utterly absent. Lynching Kal seems to be the best of the three options (the third being leaving my vote where it is), but you guys seem to have that pretty much covered there... The question is whether I want to make it a certainty, getting past any Grappling Hook stuff but at the risk of lynching him accidentally if he suddenly makes a really good arguement for himself. So it comes down to whether I think Kal is suspicious enough to warrant a lynch. Jene has taken back his accusation of me, and soothed my worries about him a little. The main bit of evidence, such as it is, against Kal is that he was 'saved' by the Grappling Hook the previous cycle. We've already debated whether or not it could be a trap or for another reason. I am of the opinion that it is not, so I will use my vote against Kal FangShi. Night all.

All three Gunners? We've got one as good as confirmed in Jene, and one claimed by Kai, but who's the third? Or have I missed that somewhere?

There are four possibilities! (I'll come in again) I think that the last Jene should've been Jeno there, Kai. Darn these similar names As a request to people online near the end of the cycle, can someone who is online when Luka is press her for an answer, since I won't be there to ask myself? Edit: Have an upvote for that sheer wall of text and its highly structured nature

I am rather disappointed that I had three votes placed onto me due to a combination of Jene's really shallow 'evidence', Jeno's vote without any evidence, and Luka's vote for tie-making. Interesting to note that most people who have voted for me each day have done so with no real reason for voting for me specifically. It's always worrying going to sleep a quarter of a cycle before it's over, since you have no idea what you'll wake up to. I am grateful for Hreo's extra vote saving me from an accidental lynch by grappling hook . So Kai was hit by a grappling hook and because of that, Kal survived the night. There are three possibilities here: Kal is loyal and saved himself with a grappling hook that he bought. I believe this to be very unlikely, since he didn't post today and hasn't voted. If he was going to save himself, I think he would take the time to make a short post just for the coin and the possibility of tipping a vote over on someone else. Another loyal crewman saved Kal because they believed he was innocent. This is also unlikely, considering most people's opinion towards him. People may not have voted for him, but I can't recall anyone saying that they were pretty sure that he was loyal. Kal is a Mutineer and he was saved by one of his own. This is the most likely of these three scenarios, since it doesn't really give away any information that we wouldn't have gotten anyway. By saving him, they get an extra vote for another day and we waste a lynch. Kal is loyal and a Mutineer saved him. This gives us incorrect information and makes us look closely at him instead of someone else. While possible, I would say it unlikely. The Mutineers may be rather independent and therefore perhaps more likely to go for interesting plans, at the same time I doubt that they would deny us an innocent lynch like that. It's not as if they really needed to use the hook anyway. So since scenario three looks most likely, I'm very suspicious. However, before I vote for Kal nearer the end of the day, I would like to know why Luka and Jeno voted for me without giving a real reason. EDIT: From what I recall from QF2, Luka isn't on anymore today while I'm on, so I will instead vote for Jeno to get a response.

I could give an account of all my PMs today if you really want them, but I don't see the point in doing so myself - not only because of the fact that it wouldn't be proof either way, but also because I can't be bothered to go to that length to argue against this of all things. I will say though that if you had checked more often than just recently, you'd have seen that I've been sending PMs for the last 12 or so hours, and therefore it's a Storming long PM if that's your reasoning.

I guess you'll want an actual rebuttal, so I will say some more. I talk a lot to people, since I spend most of my time at my computer at home while doing work. I've shown that throughout Game 5, the QF game (on three documents, no less!) and while Game 6 was on, though the speculation doc isn't available yet. My sig shows that quite nicely too - I worked hard for that award! Simply put, I spend a lot of time on the personal messenger because I send a lot of PMs every day. It's hardly suspicious, particularly when the Mutineers can only do a single PM a day anyway. What would I be doing, re-reading the same PMs over and over and over again? I find your sudden accusal of me to be suspicious though, particularly for that reason of all reasons. I was quite willing to give you the benefit of the doubt due to Mai's reasoning being somewhat flawed, but now that benefit has gone after the 'logic' you've shown there. I retract my vote from Kal. Why do you find it suspicious, Jene?

Is that a crime now, all of a sudden?

It was a shame about that Aonar guy, really. Oh, he couldn't hold an Aon Ashe to Wyrm's own scholarly knowledge*, educated in Elantris as he was and called upon by kings all over to advise them, but it was nice to have another man of learning aboard, even if it didn't last. Still, it proved that these Mutineers were a bit more dangerous than he expected. It had taken them a long time to make that move, and he would have forgotten about it if it wasn't for everyone talking about it constantly. It was the equivalent of pirate gossip, he mused. *No offence meant, Aonar, it's the character, not me >> I would be hesitant to vote with just that logic, since we have no idea how many Gunners are in the game (though it is likely to be low), nor can we say for sure that the Mutineers have one alongside them and that Jene and Kai aren't both loyal crewmen. You're also assuming that Kai didn't lie about his Gunner-ness or make a mistake in how he worded his question. It doesn't seem like a mistake, I agree, but I'm not sure anyone would just say that outright so early on. Though it could certainly have been a slip of the tongue/keyboard. As for my own vote though, I'm not quite sure yet. We haven't really confirmed any information since Jene turned out to be not dead, other than Aonar's innocence. Kal claimed that Aonar was playing aggressively, and that certainly could be what killed him this game. Having said that, I'm going to place my vote for Kal for now because he's logged on today but not replied, and because of the fact that he is somewhat suspicious, as New One's lovely chart demonstrates (and I'm not just saying that because I'm Valiant! ).

Well, no-one's posted since Jaelre and myself, so I'm going to place a vote on an inactive, Matim, and go to bed. Night all.

We want them boxed in, yes, but we haven't got them in a box yet. We haven't even laid a trail, let alone a trap. By giving them the capability to vote in a circular manner, they can just hide their votes there, circling the box with everyone else, to continue this horrible metaphor. After all, their reasoning just has to be 'well, everyone else was doing that as well' at that point, and frankly we can't really say much about it. It justifies bad reasoning, which is not good. Having said that, I'm not sure about whether to remove my vote or not as of the moment. I guess you've given the information I wanted though, so I will remove my vote from Jeno. I am not sure where to place it though. My suspicions are rather low at the moment, I will admit. I think I'll wait a few hours until before I head off, and look at what's going on then for the time being.

So currently, the votes look like this: Jene (1): Mai Mai (0): Aonar Aonar (2): Jeno, Kal Kal (1): Panda Panda (2): Ratel, Riitiidiikiiiir Jeno (2): Wyrm, Riingar I note that Kai has not voted, nor Aonar has not placed his vote elsewhere yet. We still have not heard from Jatae, Hreo, Matim and Luka. We have a three-way tie here. I am curious as to why Riitiidiikiiiir voted for Panda after agreeing with Kai that there should not be a low-vote lynch. Panda only had one vote on him at that point. Surely if you agreed with Kai's point, you should've cemented the lynch on Aonar rather than forced a tie?

Wyrm grimaced a little as Mai accursed Jene, and Aonar accused Mai, and Joe and Kal accused Aonar, and Panda accused Kal in turn. Then Aonar removed his vote, and a cuddly toy fell on his head and Ratel cursed Panda from up on high. It was really going to be one of those days, wasn't it? "Round and round the noose goes..." he muttered. Then he cleared his throat to speak. "We had some difficulty with this on the last ship I was on," he declared. "Of course, that ship wasn't as grand as one like this, but it was special in its own way. Y'see, it was a ship of the sky," he lowered his voice to a whisper, as if in reverence. "One of them Elantrian ships, like my father used to have. Well, rarer than that, since most of them didn't do that sort of thing. Walking and sailing are too good for most of them." "But anyway, a couple of the crew there decided that they really liked the ship and wanted to use it to pirate there as well. I mean, who wouldn't? A flying ship'd be amazing for that sort of thing, kolo?" he messed up the pronunciation of the Dula word slightly but didn't notice. "Anyway, to cut a long story short, they managed to take over the ship, and killed the Elantrian in charge. And then they realised that they couldn't steer the damnation thing and crashed it into the seas! Mutineers are always like that. They want to be in charge, but have no idea what they'll do afterwards. O' course, that's if they don't end up killing each other to try and be captain." "I dislike all this reactionary voting. I can see why you want to vote - the captain's incentive's rather nice as well - but at the same time, I don't know about confirming lynches this early in the day. It's only been a couple of hours since we got to know about this, after all. I am suspicious of Kal right now because of that, but he's got someone breathing down his neck right now, and if I joined it'd be rather hypocritical considering what my reason for voting for him would be." "At the same time, I'm hesitant to vote Ratel as well - I mean, not only is that just following everyone else, but it's also just going to get me voted for as well as a matter of course. Of course, doing something different might do that too... But it's a good idea to give the Mutineers a choice of people to vote for." "As such, I'm going to vote for Jeno for now to break the chain, and give the Mutineers a choice on how to proceed. No offence to you Jeno, I just think it's a little to early to declare that you think of Mai as loyal that quickly without you knowing that he is already. I just think that you're wrong about them not starting a vote on a random person. Also, you managed to avoid the chain of accusations, which makes me suspicious of you already, along with Kal." Thanks to Aonar and Alvron for forcing me to change this up twice before I hit the post button Edit: Fixed the names.

Helpful uses for Necromancy (in D&D terms)! (seriously, why did it take us this long to consider it when we have Warbreaker?) Simply get a load of dead bones, pump them full of magic, and set them to do all the boring tasks you don't want to do. Cleaners, mechanics, cooks, anything that can be done by rote can be done by a load of old bones that no-one was using. There are so many uses that they can be put to. They could also do work in dangerous situations were you don't want people there - disaster areas, underwater, terraforming worlds... Robots without the need to study how to make them move or act - The magic would take care of that. All it requires is for someone to leave their body to science magic when they die. Even better, supplement the magical programming with a modern a understanding of programming, and get them to do even more complex tasks! Not only do they not need paying, but they only require the hire of a necromancer as a purchase cost. They don't even need electrically charging. You just need to ensure your necromancer has a steady supply of magic, something which shouldn't be too hard. Don't like skeletons or zombies in your home? Then why not try another spell school, and summon a demonic servant, or a conjured elemental instead? The benefit of a demon (and some forms of elemental) is that they're actually intelligent, and don't require precise orders. You could even use a golem instead of undead, if you have a large enough house and don't mind broken floorboards. Not only can necromancy drastically reduce manpower costs, you can also use it in the medical profession. You could stave off death with a few applications of spells as an EMT process, or use it to supplement scientific or other magical aid elsewhere. Necromancy could easily identify diseases by the same sort of magic, since that is usually the province of the spell school as well. The other main area in D&D that necromancy applies to is curses, usually. Not quite as handy, but they could be used to non-lethally restrain people such as criminals or prisoners. They could even cause death without pain, if necessary. Necromancy usually gets a bad rap, with all the power-hungry mages out there, but it could be rather useful in the modern world.

I almost went for Hreo myself Also, good to see some crew diversity here. Truly Dreok is a man who embraces equal opportunity employment schemes. With Jain, Hreo and myself, that's a Jindo-blooded, two a Fjordel-blooded, and an Elantrian- and Dula-blooded amongst the crew. We are the most ethnically diverse crew ever, and thus we are a shoe-in for the annual pirate awards! On the note of the 'randomness' of lynchings, it will be difficult at first. But since everything's done in-thread, it should become a lot easier when we hit our first Mutineer (as it always does, in these games). We will simply need to look carefully at the rest of the crew - I suspect our paranoia will reach new levels here, as any group of people voting the same way will be suspect. On the other hand, the Mutineers can't advise each other or contact each other except through that PM, so we might be able to find a mistake or two to capitalise on.

Aha, someone else who has read Thursday Next! It's a shame that Shades of Grey means a certain other book to most people now. It had some rather interesting ideas in it. In any case, welcome to the forums. Take a bit of time to get settled in, then start throwing theories around with everyone else. The worst bit about Brandon's books is having to wait for them. Or join us in the Elimination subforum for a forum game of Mafia using the Cosmere. It's where I spend all my time these days... Regardless of what subforums you spend your time in, enjoy your (hopefully very long) stay

The lie here is that it is Wyrm who is the bastard half-brother, not Kai. It's a rather sad story. You see, Wyrm's mother and father weren't really happy enough together. His mother was a brilliant Dula - definitely not Fjorden - horse thief, famed for being able to train horses to steal more horses for her, and his father was an Elantrian - note, not Fjorden - sailor who traversed the seas looking for Excitement, Adventure and Really Wild Things (but only at night because he was scared of the sun). His father was made redundant between adventures when he put all of his money into creating a passenger route between Teod and Arelon, specifically to cater for Elantrians. This was rather foolish of him, since his target market could normally just will themselves there with Aons. At this point, his mother got bored with stealing horses, and tried her hand at other things instead in order to try and get some more money into the coffers. Wyrm never really saw much of his mother, as she ran away with the family silver a few days before he was born, because she found the home life a bit dull. His father married another, somewhat more pleasant, girl instead. She was actually Svordish, which conviniently explains where Wyrm gets his somewhat Fjorden features from. They were a much better family unit than a thief and a sailor, and so they're still together to this day. A year after their marriage, Kai was born into the family as Wyrm's younger half-brother. In case it wasn't obvious, I'm playing a liar. I hope this won't count as pre-game collusion with Kas, since there's only RP stuff here.

Wyrm (who is definitely not Fjordan in any way, honest) signing up here!

The Avatar: Legend of Korra cartoon is a good place to see how supernatural capabilities can be used in daily life. They use the spontaneous generation of lightning for power stations, as you suggested. They have also used Firebending to substitute for gunpowder in tanks in the previous series as well. The only other place you see how bending of various forms can be used in daily life though there is for sport . Perhaps its not a bad example though of how magic would be used in a more modern world though, when technology catches up and starts to do things better or in a more useful manner. Eventually, magic would become obsolete if it wasn't developed and used as technology advanced. If magic was not an inexhaustible supply, or couldn't be automated, I think it would definitely start to die off. The Kingkiller Chronicles has an interesting combination of science and magic, not just with the Sympathy/Sygaldry stuff you mentioned, which I rather enjoyed, but also with the University itself - People study both the normal subjects we are used to and magic (and indeed can pick and choose to study varying levels of magic), and then can also study using magic and science with engineering. This happens all in the same place, which is a refreshing break; usually in fantasy novels there are special institutions that solely learn magic, or apprenticeship schemes. We even see the dangers of a relatively normal chemistry lab and the safety precautions one should take in the Kingkiller Chronicles, which is a lovely touch (and as in the normal world, chem labs are absolutely terrifying. A chemist friend I have has a whole A4 folder of warnings and procedures to follow. My labs usually just say 'don't look into the laser' or whatever). I suppose I am being rather vague with 'medieval'. I mean just the sort of pre-gunpowder era. I don't know why you're asking about countries though - All fantasy happens in the UK (or New Zealand). But now that you mention it, I don't think I've ever seen a fantastical classical-era series. I suppose that's not too surprising though - The Greeks already did it all for us . I'm now very interested in having a look to see if there's anything on that sort of area which focuses on magic as well as or instead of mythology. With regards to the boundaries of science, magic and the blurring of the lines between them, you're quite right there. Clarke's Third Law is rather infamous for stating how the two can be interchangeable at times. It's a interesting point you've raised, asking when we stop defining something as science, and start defining it as magic. I think that we would probably define magic as 'anything we can't scientifically prove in this world', except that also catches out almost all religions in the world . I would I agree that the fusion of magic and science needs to be rigorously theorised, tested and described. Well, you can't call something that hasn't been theorised real science, after all. That's kind of the point. The question then becomes, 'at what point do we stop considering it as magic, and just consider it as science?'. Sci-fi does a lot of this, since they seem to really like the idea of psychics through further evolution. They don't call it magic, but treat it as a logical conclusion through science. But even then, it remains a supernatural phenomenon. So I think it's more of a question of considering the how the supernatural (including magic, divinity, mythical creatures etc) and the natural (the laws of nature, scientific progress, normal flora and fauna etc) affect one another in fantastical stories.

Ah, right, in which case, cans would be preferred. Gonna have a look in a local store tomorrow, but I'm not expecting them to do good deals, sadly. Edit: That was a fail. Trust a music store to rip people off for headphones...