skaa

Welcome to the Society! kinxer, Redbird, Ashiok, and Kobold: Do you guys want to join? The benefit of all? What of the victims who, unless the DA have had a breakthrough in Hemalurgic Investiture acquisition, are all dead? The fact that most victims of your art have so far been half-Skaa makes this even more objectionable to me personally. But that is not even the root of our difference. Our goals differ in that you think living with your soul and body grotesquely deformed is an acceptable compromise to obtaining enhanced inner power, while we do not even accept the desire for enhanced inner power, much less being deformed. [Out of character: I'm actually okay with a hypothetical form of Hemalurgy that does not kill its donor, but only if the donor is a willing volunteer.] We have not even decided if Snoopy is a DA spy (my first instinct, given his insulting remarks; hence the crippling punishment) or someone with an amusing habit of ironic guild memberships (my reason for eventual granting him probationary membership). Besides, not even Gold Feruchemy can remove the aluminum fragments in his legs. Amputation will have to be done first, after which he may heal himself with gold or avail of one of my Regrowth fabrials (kept in storage for emergency cases). The very nature of the Society means that members should not desire to ingest anything with lerasium in it, even if it would lead to such beneficial powers. After all, we already have the Allomantic technology needed to effect Investiture-destruction and Investiture-hiding when necessary. We will however accept membership from those born with Copper or Chromium Allomancy and who share our rejection of Invested supremacy. I do not usually lurk in the guild forums, and even now do not wish to make a habit of it, for there is just too much theorizing left to do. I have intentionally made the Two Rules a bit vague so as to allow the members enough freedom of interpretation, which should make the debates more interesting, but I as Founder do hope that they will keep the spirit of The Two-Part Message and the Goal alive in their hearts even after my eventual handing over of the Presidency to whoever wins the election.

I'll let the members to discuss this, then we can form an official decision on the matter.

Sorry for not addressing your concern earlier, Ashiok. It is a difficult question. On one hand, keeping Shades and other mentally-challenged Invested humans like Lifeless as pets/slaves seems like an affront to their human dignity. On the other hand, these creatures are in some definitions dead and, being non-sentient, are technically spiritual or organic robots. I would personally prefer avoiding such creatures or sending them to a more permanent state of rest, but this issue is still debatable.Edit: Such a crippled Mistborn is free to become an Invested member of the Society for as long as he adheres to the Rules. Yes. Gnats and other low-powered Invested creatures, who may be victims of aristocratic oppression themselves, are in fact included under the term "Investiture-challenged".*** Here are the members so far: Cheese United Curiosity I will grant probationary membership to our crippled Hemalurgic friend, Snoopy. He will only get a tinfoil hat. We shall see if he truly wants to be part of the Society. In a week's time, we'll collectively decide on his membership status.

Funny. *shoots Snoopy's legs* You seem to be the only cripple here. Application denied. [Out of character: Was that excessively harsh? Role-playing is so sparking hard for me sometimes. ] As I said above, being Invested is no impediment to membership so long as loyalty is shown and rules are followed. That said, Investiture-challenged members are gently advised to avoid living in or near Arelon. If a member finds himself Invested in the future, he will have to decide for himself whether he still belongs.And if the behavior of Invested members get out of hand, I will have to impose stricter measures. But let's not think about that for now.

Any Invested person who shares our hatred of oppression and who can abide by the Two Rules of the Society may request for membership. We (that is, I) understand that some kindred spirits were born with Investiture, or were recently and permanently Invested without their consent (e.g. after blindly accepting a cookie in their Introduction thread), and therefore cannot help being who they are. We also welcome those with harmless (the oppressors would say "useless") powers who sympathize with our cause. I will only require such persons to avoid displaying their Invested abilities unnecessarily. This means that those who may safely suppress/remove their Investiture (e.g. those with Hemalurgic earrings) must do so during meetings. Invested animals and Invested objects may be used as appropriate to further our goals. In cases where using such a thing will contaminate the user with Investiture, then its use shall be restricted to extreme situations where lives are at stake, and only if no alternative is available. The members are expected to debate with each other in a scholarly manner whether a particular Invested tool is worth using.

Members: skaa (President and Founder) Cheese United Curiosity Kipper (Mascot) Lindel Screwloose Shlee Non-RP version: This guild is for two kinds of Sharders: 1) Those who enjoy role-playing as non-powered or low-powered underdogs who use their ingenuity to outwit/avoid stronger Superpowered opponents, or 2) those who don't like role-playing at all and would rather spend their time writing or discussing theories. If you identify yourself with either kind, feel free to request for membership. RP version: I, the skaa named skaa, self-proclaimed President and OMSF1Founder of the Investiture-Challenged Awareness Society (henceforth referred to as the Society), have decided to extend my invitation to all drabs, darkeyes, pure skaa, and anyone else who've been oppressed by the Invested Aristocracy or otherwise oppose said oppression, to join our2 Society of free, well-informed, well-armed, and spike-free Investiture-Challenged beings and Invested sympathizers. The Society's message is two-fold: The only Investiture you need inside your body is the Spark of Life. Aside from that and any Innate Investiture that you have no control over, all other forms of Shardic power ought to remain outside of you, where it cannot pollute your Cognitive Identity, your "self", the very meaning of who you are. Having no "special" Investiture must not prevent you from living a full, happy life even in a community full of "special beings"3. Our goal, therefore, is to eradicate the notion that decent, hardworking Investiture-challenged beings ought to kowtow to the Invested Oligarchs, or even yearn to be similarly Invested. We do not need to mutilate our bodies with the dirty spikes of Hemalurgists, or mutilate our minds with the foreign moralities of barely-sentient Splinters. Nor do we need to inhale foul Breath or choke on glowing metal nuggets. We, the Investiture-Challenged beings of the Cosmere, shall survive with our selves intact, proud of our minimal Shardic influence, and ready to face the dangerous worlds of our dwarf galaxy with heads4 held high! In order to achieve this goal, the Society shall promote learning, scholarship, and the advancement of technology in all the Shardworlds of the Cosmere. Yes, even Investiture technology, for as long such technology will only be used on non-sentient targets5 and will not unduly Invest an Investiture-challenged being. With all these in mind, if you are interested in joining the Society, please read the two simple rules thereof: Rule 1: Reject Noble Mentality Aside from the general idea that Investiture-challenged persons ought not be oppressed, this rule may be interpreted by individual members as they see fit. What do you hate the most in our Invested So-Called Overlords? What of their excesses do you detest? Whatever your answer, strive to do the opposite. If you hate their ostentation, revise your gaudy signature and use a more modest username. If you hate their reliance on brute strength, stop role-playing as the Fullborn Sliver who is also a Returned and (inexplicably) an Epic. Stop doing what you see in them. Be the Anti-Noble you want to be. Rule 2: Be a Scholar of Investiture Strive to learn everything about the forms of Investiture in your chosen Shardworld/s. Aim to be more knowledgeable than the majority of our Invested oppressors, then spread the knowledge to your fellow Investiture-challenged brethren. Ponder on the Words of the Creator, also the Words of His Assistant, searching for clues as to how best to use Investiture without Investiture using you. If doubts and uncertainties exist, be brave enough to formulate your own theories. Do not rely on Invested scholars who think they know everything about their power simply because they have it, or who think that their limitations can limit us; the Creator has shown that they are often wrong. *** If you are willing to follow the Two Rules of the Society, then I welcome you with open arms. Members shall each receive an Investiture-blocking kit, an aluminum gun to be used only in self-defense, and a lifetime supply of aluminum fragmenting bullets6. -- 1 Only Member So Far 2"my"Yes, it's our Society now! 3 freaky abominations (no offense meant) 4 covered in simple but tasteful aluminum-lined head gear 5 and Nobles; but only for... noble... purposes. 6 Electricity is such a wonderful thing.

Don't release the Power, Kobold! Use the Power! Just had to make sure he remembers. Better safe than sorry.

My Essences-Surge theory is still undergoing some major revisions and will probably be significantly different in a few weeks (especially its Part III), but you could check it out now if you like, Sirce. Spren are easy to link to the Essences, but trying to link the Essences to the Orders' Surge pairs caused me endless amounts of stress until I decided on a whim to look for alternative Surge pairs for each Essence, and found a combination that fits perfectly. Now I just have to find a better explanation for it than what I had before, because my current explanation (that Tanavast consciously fiddled with the Surges) had met with conflicting WoB. Hence the need for revision.

What?! Why was I nominated here? I did not survive this long by trying to lead a bunch of superpowered nobles like you guys. Anyway I don't even have lots of reputation points. This must be some sort of trap. *runs away* Edit: I don't want to be President of the 17th Shard (or World Dictator), so it's good that I'm not winning the polls. But I am the self-proclaimed President of the Investiture-Challenged Awareness Society, of which I am the only member. Perhaps I should create a Guild out of it just to see if anyone would join.

I tried imagining who a clueless Hollywood filmmaker would think is perfect for the role of Kelsier, and I immediately thought of Johnny Depp. *shudders* *realizes the risk of posting in this thread* Alright Depp fans, I admit, Johnny Depp might be an okay Kelsier, but not a great one pleasedontkillme.

Yeah, verbatim stuff would be nice. We'll look forward to that! Oh. I didn't think of asking Hero whether he'd like to make his own thread about it here. Whoops. Man, I'm just so socially inept it's not even funny.

Guys, feel free to downvote my stupid post above. For what it's worth, maxal, I was only reacting to that small part, not your discussion with Aleksiel in general. But that doesn't change the fact that I was a total jerk. Sorry. *bows head in shame*

Ask Invia if she'd pick a Willshaper to be by her side during a Desolation. Ask a Windrunner if he'd like to spend a Desolation with a Skybreaker. Ask a common superstitious peasant if he'd like to sit next to a red-eyed Dustbringer, or a future-seeing Truthwatcher.Saying that you don't think Elhokar is going to be a Radiant is one thing. Saying that him becoming a Radiant will somehow contradict what we know of Radiants is quite another. I'd like to remind you that all the Radiants were broken in some way. With all the ways a person can be broken, you can take any Radiant, any Radiant at all, and you'll find people who'll say he or she is not "worthy" of honor and should not have been a Radiant. Those people, being blinded by their preconceptions, will of course be wrong. Perhaps it might therefore be wise to open one's mind just a little here, eh? I'm not saying it's wrong to believe a character won't be a Radiant. I'm saying it's unwise to pretend you know enough of the character's inner nature, or Brandon's own intentions for that character, to say such things like "He can't be a Radiant: he does not fit the mold and if the mold is not what we have been led to believe, then the fate of humanity is in peril." I mean, really? Seriously, we get it. You don't think Elhokar is Radiant-material. You don't think he will ever change his stupid ways. That's fine. Now can you please let other people make the opposite speculation in good conscience without fear of offending you, if you would be so kind? Thanks.

Good find, Flakes! In addition to Adonalsium and the Shards, I think Ein Sof and the ten Sephirot can also be the inspiration behind Honor and the ten Heralds. Heck, I'd even say the Double Eye of the Almighty diagram containing the ten Orders connected by 17 lines is the Rosharian version of the Tree of Life containing the ten (well, eleven, really) Sephirot connected by 22 lines (and the "voidbinding chart" the Rosharian version of the Qliphotic tree). Here are other thematic similarities between Sephirot and Heralds: Malchut ("Kingship") - Jezrien, Herald of Kings Gevurah ("Severity") - Nale, Herald of Justice Netzach ("Victory") - Chanarach, with the attribute of brave Chesed ("Kindness") - Vedel, with the attribute of loving Binah ("Understanding") - Paliah, Herald of Truthwatchers, with the attribute of learned Tiferet ("Beauty") - Shalash, Herald of Beauty Chokhmah ("Wisdom") - Battar, with the attribute of wise Keter (the will to create) and Daat (central state of unity) - Kelek, Herald of Willshapers, with the attribute of building and the Surge of Cohesion Yesod ("Foundation", the power of connection) - Talenel, Stonesinew, Herald of Stonewards Hod ("Splendor", submission) - Ishar, with the attribute of pious (Some of those comparisons aren't as solid as the others, which is fine. Brandon doesn't have to use an exact mirror of the Sephirot.) Of course, Honor is but an aspect of Adonalsium, so I wouldn't be surprised if there is another Tree of Life-like chart showing how all sixteen Shardic Intents are inter-connected. Shameless Plug: You might also be interested in my own explorations on the ancient/medieval inspirations behind the Cosmere, some of which are linked in my signature (under The Cosmere and Metaphysics). One of them is about the Essences.

So, I've been Googling for stuff about the Polestones earlier today when I stumbled upon this post by Phantom Monstrosity: I remember that someone here has already posted about smokestone being smoky quartz a long time ago, but the information about the best color for topaz is something new to me. Note that this post isn't on the 17th Shard forums (Phantom is no longer active here), but rather on the site called Steel Ministry, which appears to be a MAG site. Then I noticed the title of that thread: "Stuff we've learned from Brandon Firsthand". I immediately went to the thread's first page, and saw these gems: This was posted by Herowannabe, also a Sharder (and still active, it seems). Kurkistan and Kadrok, both active Sharders, are also members of Steel Ministry, it seems, and were participating in that thread. Phantom also posted WoBs written on his copy of Firefight: *** Q: Could you steal any trait hemalurgically that can be stored feruchemically? A: Yes you could steal any trait that could be stored. Q: How many Breaths would be fair to turn a mistwraith into kandra-ish? A: Turning a mistwraith into a kandra would be hard with Breath. It doesn't give [a word I couldn't make out; sentience?]. *** I think that's all the WoBs in that thread, though there's also a WoP that the blue-colored garnet in WoK was a typo. Anyway, I guess I can understand that Herowannabe, etc. were too busy to post these things here, but it's still a shame to let WoBs there go unshared. I'll try to visit Steel Ministry every now and then (even though I'm not into role-playing) just to see if there are new WoBs there, then post them in this thread for everyone to see. Of course, the Sharders who are also Steel Ministry members may also post new stuff here if they want. That is all for now.

Oh! Well, as I said in the original post, it's Adam Baldwin. Sorry if that wasn't clear. So, we now have two confirmed: Adam Baldwin as J.C. and Morgan Freeman as Tobias (thanks, Argent!). Let's see if we can get Peter or Brandon to reveal more. By the way, any other guesses?

Have you read Legion?

A man who doesn't enjoy oddities would dislike Wit's occasionally off-color jokes, whether or not they were aimed at him. A man who doesn't enjoy novelty and who is king of a society of angry, arrogant warrior aristocrats would, at the very least, feel uncomfortable with the way this Wit is treating said aristocrats, because I doubt any other King's Wit in the history of Alethkar would have said the same things Hoid said to people like Sadeas. The whole point of a court jester in medieval times is to be odd and novel (and occasionally insightful). That's what makes them entertaining for the sorts of people who employ them. That's also why kingdoms like England stopped having court jesters after people, for one reason or another, decided that royal courts should remain as respectable, predictable, and boring as possible. Love for adventure is, sadly, not always the same as love for discovery. You can love adventure simply because you can't stand boredom. That's what Elhokar is. Gavilar and Eshonai may have gone on adventures of discovery, but we don't know yet what particular sort of adventure-loving is sought after by Willshaper spren. Given how varied and inconsistent Willshapers supposedly were, it could be any sort. Eh, few of us here like Elhokar very much, I think. Even calling him a proto-Willshaper as CabbageHead and I do isn't much of a compliment, given that Order's reputation. But while our reasons might not be totally conclusive, you can't just brush them away and say outright that he doesn't fit any of the Radiants due to his personality that we both of us don't like, when one Order of Radiant was known for their variety in temperament. I say we agree to disagree for now and wait till we get more information about the other Orders.

In my mind, the idea of Elhokar being a Willshaper is turning from "theoretically possible" (as I implied in the previous page) to "very, very likely", all thanks to CabbageHead's posts. *upvotes* As I said previously, I still think he was seeing Cryptics (who've been observing him for some strange reason), precisely because his Willshaper bond grants the ability to glimpse into the Cognitive Realm. I don't think Elhokar's Willshaper spren will actually introduce itself to him until he becomes less attached to his dead Shardblade "Sunraiser", but I believe the bond is already there.

A fact that I tackled in an earlier post.

Reminds me of the Rithmatist. Is Megan going to be David's Melody? Will Joel and David get powers in the end? Will Calamity turn out to be Legion all along, and will the Smedrys be able to stop Prof who, surprise surprise, becomes the leader of the Librarians?! Sorry, I got a bit carried away. Edit: Just an aside, I noticed that someone negated the upvote in my previous post in this thread. Not cool, man. But hey, it's your right. I just don't know how that post could have possibly been offensive. Update: And now a kind soul has upvoted that post. You're awesome, whoever you are.

Which is why I think he still obtained powers anyway; he just didn't realize it in the book. I think David is the first Epic who was sane (and awake, unlike Dawnslight) from the start. Prediction: David will start dreaming about being in water, but not being afraid of it. He won't realize the implications of this until he accidentally activates his powers later.

Wait, what are marbleminds? Edit: Ah, so they're just small spherical metalminds, right? Yeah, we'll need more WoB on how Chromium Allomancy works. We don't even know if a Leecher will actually be Invested by the metals he "leeches", or if those metals will simply disappear without affecting anything.

I'd just like to point out that Duralumin Feruchemy is not exclusively about people's awareness. Brandon has said that you could use duralumin to change your spiritual connection to a Shardworld: I wouldn't be surprised if there are other types of "Connections" you could store. For example, if duralumin could store connections to Splinters like Seons and spren, then worldhopping Connectors could become pretty powerful indeed.