Isomere

I personally do not believe that Lerasium grants permanent Investiture. The quotes we have from WoB talk about altering sDNA, not granting a piece of a Shard. I have heard a great many people suggest that you do indeed get Investiture from Lerasium, and think it's possible you get some temporary investiture that disappears after the burn is complete. Similarly, burning Atium does not grant permanent Investiture. This is news to me. I think the metals are just ordinary metal, but are important because their subatomic wave-forms create a Surgepattern that pairs with one of the Powers of Creation. This is a non-conventional theory at the moment, but I'm hoping it will catch on. Well, your comment really brings out the Internal/External pairing of the God metal vs the associated Focus metal. If you mix them, you might get both internal and external affects. Perhaps an alloy would let you see shadows of both yourself and others at the same time?

You motivated me to post my theory on this topic. It is highly controversial, and I'm probably the only one that endorses it. http://www.17thshard.com/forum/topic/3517-theory-allomantic-metals-correlate-to-a-shard/

This theory is based off the Shardic Lens Theory. Restated briefly, the Power of Creation is a source of Light. Each of the 16 Shards is viewed as a Lens that can access this light and allow it to enter the Cosmere. When the Power passes through a Shard, it is distorted based on the Intent, creating 16 "colors" of Light. A human must have a piece of a Shard and use a physical Focus to access the Powers of Creation. One of my questions deals with the Power of a Shard and the Power of Creation. Are they the same thing? Could they be related? I am not sure, but for this theory I make an assumption that they are two different things. (The theory could also be reworked assuming they are the same, but subtle differences arise as a result) So assuming the Power of Creation is separate from the Shard itself, each Shard acts sort of like a Sun, radiating the Power of Creation into the Cosmere, but altering the Power in the process. That Light can be harnessed and used by any of the other Shards to accomplish their goals. I believe the metals of Scadrial form a link to one of the 16 Shards and allow access to one "color" of Light. Alloys may allow you to blend and combine various colors. This Light is then used as fuel. Under typical use, Allomancy would not change the total amount of Power that Preservation controls since the source of energy is the Power of Creation, filtered through the various Shards, then accessed through a Focus. You can also fuel Allomancy directly with the body of any Shard. We have seen that happen with the Well of Ascension, the Mists and Lerasium. Using these as fuel will directly access the Power of Preservation, temporarily dispersing his power and weakening the shard. The end effect of allomancy will be related in some way to the Intent that shaped the Power's color. Many of us have been puzzled by the correlation between Atium and Electrum. Used allomantically, they both reveal shadows of the future and have virtually the same effect. But electrum shows your own shadow while atium shows the shadows of others. I suggest that they are both directly related to the Intent of Ruin. Electrum is a physical focus that forms a link to Ruin, allowing access to black colored Light. Atium allows you to access Ruin's Power directly. Both forms of Power are shaped by the Intent of Ruin and will have similar effects when used allomantically. Expanding on this idea, could all of the metals have a corresponding shard? The only other God-Metal we know about is Lerasium, and it seems to be capable of altering a person's Identity to Attune them perfectly with Preservation. There is a feruchemical power that stores Identity. I suggest that Aluminium is the Metal that accesses white Light from Preservation. Used allomantically, aluminium alters the Identity of the other metals in the user, destroying them instantly. I suggest that a trained allomancer could control how Aluminum changes the metals instead of just destroying them.

I see several ways for Hoid to get access to other worlds magic. Basically, your Identity needs to be attuned to the shard and you need some of the shards's Investiture before you can use the magic. Let's focus first on Identity: 1) He knew both Ati and Leras personally. Perhaps his Identity was already attuned to them? 2) He could have lived on Scadrial long enough to attune the same way the Feruchemists did. 3) He could use an Aluminum spike and steal Identity from a native. 4) He could have used a bead of Lerasium during his first trip to Scadrial a few epochs in the past. I believe Lerasium can attune you to multiple shards at once if you burn it with that specific purpose. 5) Other options we don't yet know... He would still need to get Investiture from both Shards 1) Hemalurgy is the simplest explanation. Grab a nicrosil spike and a bystander off the street 2) Petition both Shards for some Investiture. He may have been their friend on Yolen so it isn't completely far fetched. ("Yo Leras, hook a brotha up with some Feruchemy? ") 3) He is a pre-shattering human, and his original Investiture from Adonalsium already contains a piece from all 16 Shards. (My favorite theory) 4) Figure out a way for Scadrians to voluntarily give away their Investiture (could work like Breath?) 5) Other options we don't know. So many ways to do it, and I'm guessing Brandon will choose Option 5 on both parts.

I found the quote for you Morsk, it's in Starfall when Dalinar notices the KR's breastplate glows with the KR symbol: The biggest find for me was the link to a Fabrial Surgepattern. Anyone have thoughts about why the KR symbol looks like a Fabrial Surgepattern ? Especially since the pattern is invisible to the naked eye.

Morsk, I'd have to dig through the WoK to find specifics, but I think the in-book description of the KR symbol fits the first image. Also, if you look carefully at the KR table inside the cover you can see the same KR symbol formed out of the Orders (just try and ignore all the extra lines and the surge glyphs) EDIT: mistborn

They both have a central circle with two vertically displaced dots. They both have an outer circle with ten lines radiating from it (or 10 wedges if you prefer to look between lines). Oddly, the way the lines radiate seem to be rotated by 90 degrees. I link the white part on top and bottom in the KR symbol with the sclera of the Double-Eye.

I don't think physical focus deals with sDNA, at least I've never heard the two compared before. Brandon mentioned that something hidden inside the atoms of metal functioned as a link to a particular type of the Power of Creation, and I've been assuming it has to do with the waves contained inside the atoms. There are links to waves on every shardplanet so far.

More fun with symbols. Notice the similarity between the Knights Radiant symbol and the Double-Eye of the Almighty. KR symbol Double-Eye Also interesting, the middle pattern of Fabrial bears a striking resemblance to the KR symbol. I'm hoping this ends up as the pattern for Augmenting Fabrials.

Sadeas lives. And lives. And irritates, but still just keeps living. He seems to embody everything wrong about the alethi people, and I just don't see him changing his ways or dying any time soon. Brightlord Amaram and Kaladin will get into a pissing match with accusations flying. House Kholin is insulted in the process. Kaladin won't be able to fight him for some reason. (Dalinar will forbid him / Amaram will refuse because he is darkeyed / Syl doesn't think its Honorable choice, etc) Adolin FINALLY gets to throw down the gauntlet and have a real challenge in a duel. Amazing pit fight ensues, Amaram dies without ever admitting that Kaladin was telling the truth, and his Shards go to Adolin's most recent girlfriend (since you know she is mad at him over something). Ok, ok, fine. They go to Kaladin who gives them to Rock who then starts manifesting as a Stoneward.

@ Kadrok: Hrm, I hadn't thought about that particular question, and I don't know how far to stretch the DNA analogy. Soooo, lets just push it till the analogy pops and see where we end up. I support Lerasium-alloys overwriting your current Misting ability and replacing it with a different power, and I like the idea that Spike Burning would work the same way. However, I could also see Hemalurgy allowing for messy genetics with simultaneous expression of multiple polymorphic alleles, all coding for a single gene locus. Said another way, you could have several working copies of the DNA that allows Allomancy. I shudder to think of all the stuff that can go wrong with those types of experiments though.

The intent of the Rithmatist seems to matter; maby if the drawer intends to make a Mark's Cross it doesn't start working until after the second line is drawn.

This really is the crux of the issue. Both views seem consistent with the quote, but have very different end results. It may even be possible that both ways are possible depending on how you use the metals... Option 1) you swallow the spike (whole or powdered, probably doesn't matter). Burning it vaporizes the spike, freeing the sDNA. The Allomancer's DNA is then spliced to the liberated sDNA. Spike gone, powers intact. (This is my interpretation) Option 2) you spike yourself. From what I gather, the sDNA is now technically part of the Allomancer, so burning it would literally be incinerating chunks of your own Soul, then compounding them. (Ouch) Do the compounded bits remain linked to the hemalurgic spike? Perhaps, perhaps not. If it remains linked, I think it's reasonable to assume your sDNA would be partially spliced into the spike too, and removing the spike would rip off a chunk of your own soul, just as if you were the victim of hemalurgy. (Kurk's interpretation)

Soul is a fairly loose term in many real world religions, and I bet the same could hold true here. I use it interchangeably to mean either just the spiritual aspect, or the combination of spirit, cognitive and physical aspects.

The timeline does seem confusing. We know Cultivation and Honor we on Roshar long before Odium came. My thoughts are the Merging took place in a previous Epoch, and the Honorspren have been around for a very long time. Odium came later and Desolations started. The nohadon vision happened. The people gathered together, formed the Knights Radiant and the current KR table was incorporated into a stained glass window somewhere. At some later point, Tanavast separated from Cultivation, watched the fall of the Heralds and the KR, formed his Journal and then died. I'm not sure where the Shattering fits into this. Could be before or after Tanavast separated, or the shattering could have caused the separation.

^ Your sDNA getting spliced to the sDNA from the spike vs the sDNA from the spike getting spliced to yours. Is there a functional difference here? The spike is now vaporized, so I think both ways end up with the DNA in the same place. The first quote seems to be saying the Allomancer needs the same Identity as the person in the spike, which could create some circular logic problems. You can only burn a spike if you stole the Identity of the original soul, but if you take the aluminum spike out to burn it you lose the Identity. I wonder what happens if you snap a spike in half and burn it in two chunks?

@Khmauv: A couple ideas: Terrismen may have developed the right Identity to use Feruchemy because their culture is so focused on balance and harmony. The place they lived may have also have had something to do with it: A small culture living near both the Well of Ascension and the Pool or Ruin seems a good setup for stuff to happen. Also, because they were so isolated the gene pool would not get diluted and allow for the changes to add up over generations. The ferrings is a good question. It is strange why the Terris people had either all powers or none. Perhaps some of them were Ferrings, but just needed to Snap or some such? It was a very peaceful culture and I doubt they routinely beat their kids. I have never heard of Ferrings needing to be Snapped, so pretty speculative at this point.

Binnut, you are right. There is a quote about the Heralds here that is perhaps the strongest argument against my theory. This quote is unfortunately not very specific. It strongly implies that Tanavast was alive when the Heralds abandoned their Honorblades, but it leaves enough room for Brandon to wiggle if he wants. He has given Aes Sedai answers in the past (ex: saying Seons are not splinters, but not explaining that a splinter is a part of a Seon) so I have learned to read his answers very closely. Some possible ways to look at things: 1) The Heralds may have been around and called Heralds long before the shattering, but with different roles and powers. Perhaps they were initially just the heads of each KR Order, but took on new responsibilities after Ascending and forming the Oathpact. 2) Could a Shard be shattered without killing the Holder? We know Odium is bound in some way, he may have been unable to bring his full force to bear during the initial shattering and had to kill Tanavast centuries afterward. 3) We don't really understand the nature of the Almighty. My theory has two Shards and two Yolenians forming the Almighty, and a lot of interesting things could happen and still have Him be considered "around". 4) The Heralds could just possess astoundingly powerful Splinters, and develop some of the capacities we associate with Shards. That way, they could have been formed before the splintering, and their abandonment would weaken the Almighty to the point where he could be vulnerable to Odium. Very hard for me to pick, and I like the 4th option almost as much as I like my original theory. Time will tell I suppose. @ Windrunner: thanks for finding that quote. I still don't really feel comfortable with the whole Ascension/Sliver thing. This quote can be interpreted several ways, so I’ll paraphrase to how I see it. "The Lord Ruler held a little bit of [Preservation's Power] and then let it go. From then on he [was a Sliver]." "When he held [a little bit of Preservation's Power] he became the Shard for a short time." So, I interpret this to mean that you don't have to have the full power of a Shard to become a Sliver, but that doesn't really jive with the quote about the Jezrien. "Jezrien is one of the Heralds, but has never held the power of an entire Shard himself. (So no, not a Sliver.)" Perhaps Brandon's definition of Sliver is maturing over time? Or there is some fundamental difference between the little bit the Heralds held and the little bit TLR held? Seems it could be just a matter of Threshold. Like those carnival hammer games. If you hit it hard enough, the bell rings, but if you get 99% there you still don’t get any sound at all. Another concern: There seems a clear difference between whatever Sazed picked up to become Harmony, and the WoA power that TLR picked up. One collects slowly over 1024 years, one appears suddenly after the death of the Shardholder. One makes you temporarily a Shard, one makes you permanently a Shard. "If you hold all the power, that makes you a Shard (conspicuous absence of time frame)" vs "When he held it he became the Shard for a short time." So there may be two different types of Investiture: permanent and temporary. Breath, Splinters, Dawnshards?, and Shards are permanent. Mists, WoA, Lerasium, Stormlight, Dor, are temporary and only provide Investiture while you are actively using them. Then they disperse, and eventually return to the actual holder of the Shard. EDIT: looks like I made my post too long, Hoser beat me to the quote

Could these visions be sort of like a practice module for Radiants? There are lots of hints that acting Honorably increases your bond to both your Spren and your KR powers. But the chance to risk injury or death to keep a stranger safe doesn't happen everyday. By creating a simulation where Dalinar "feels" like it is real, his moral actions can Attune his Identity to Honor. He also gains knowlege and insight so he can make wiser choices throughout his life. Mistborn

Is that confirmed? Leras still existed at that point, and part of His power was still forming a prison for Ruin, so I don't see how all of the power could have been in Rashek's hands. EDIT: expanding this idea to the real questions: Do you have to have the full power of a shard and leave it to become a splinter, and what would you call someone that releases about 1/10-1/5th of a Shard's power?

Very interesting. I'm assuming the stuff in parenthesis was not from Sanderson himself? Because the Lord Ruler never held the power of an entire Shard, but is still considered a Sliver.

I originally posted a brief idea of this theory scattered throughout this thread, but I wanted to flesh it out and post as a separate topic. 1) We know heralds can physically die multiple times and not actually die. They just recreate a new physical body a few millenia later. 2) There are striking similarities to the Appearance of a Herald and the Summoning of a Shardblade. I currently think both occur through condensation of Shardic energy spilling from the Spiritual realm into the Physical 3) There are suggestions that between physical lives, the Heralds are trying to keep something contained, and that they are (physically?, cognitively?) tortured during the process. 4) Desolations happen at predictable but random intervals. 5) There is something called the Oathpact that the Heralds abandoned by not going back to the prison they were supposed to maintain. 5) Midnight Essence appears in association with Desolations. 6) Jezrien is called the StormFather 7) Highstorms come from the Northeast, and sweep Southwest. 8) The Jes Glyph is in the Northeast corner of the Knights Radiant Table. Based on these observations I make a very speculative theory: When Odium came, the Almighty didn't splinter, but rather Shattered. I also speculate that shards shatter in predictable ways based on how they define themselves. He created 10 smaller shards (DawnShards?) from that cataclysm and each Shard corresponded to one of the already formed Orders of Knights Radiant. The heads of the Orders picked up the Shards, and all of them Ascended to become Shardholders with 1/10th the Power of the Almighty. They wanted to prevent Odium from ever doing a similar atrocity on other worlds. So they devised a prison that would contain His energy and prevent him from affecting the Cosmere, but at a terrible price. The walls of the prison needed to be made of powerful energy, and Shards inhabit Power and Energy the way we inhabit flesh and blood. To create an effective containment, they formed the walls out of their own bodies. They created the Oathpact, swearing that they would always remain faithful in preventing the Broken One from Escaping. Another serious problem developed. In maintaining the barrier of the prison, massive amounts of power are wielded by both sides, and per design these powers cannot get outside the prison. Without an escape valve, force builds up and will eventually create enough local pressure to destroy the prison and free Odium. Before that happens, they must release Odiums power, allow him to affect the world. Midnight Essence escapes, his Power controls the will of the Parshmen, forcing them to fight for Odium and turning them into Voidbringers. The Heralds must fight back his minions and re-seal the cage before Odium can fully escape. This Shardic Venting became known as a Desolation. A third and catastrophic problem developed. The minds of the shardholders became broken by the millennia of torture, and they eventually abandoned their powers, becoming Slivers. Taln alone was left to try and keep the forces of Odium at bay, and he was vastly outmatched. We learn at the end of WoK that he failed, and that Odium was released in a different way this time. And now, the Everstorm comes...

Overall I don't think the constellations had meaning until the local people looked up and realized, "hey, that looks like Aon Eshe." After that I could see it getting mixed up into the cultural identity bit happening on Sel and actually having some relevance.

I very much enjoy the ideas in this thread. I just made a fun (but probably inaccurate) connection between storing Identity and Mirrors of the Wheel. WOT stuff Now, playing with your ideas here, if you went back and changed a single decision in the formation of your Identity, there would already be a YOU in a different mirror who originally made that choice. Wouldn't you effectively make your Identity EXACTLY the same as the guy on the other Mirror? I'm thinking of several interesting possibilities with this, each one more far-fetched than the previous. Is it possible to go to a different mirror? Can you get back? Does balance somehow need to be maintained, so for every identity storing, the two clones just swap mirrors? What happens if you swap with a dead guy, does he come back to life in your world? or in His world? Will you both just stay dead forever? AHHHHHH. Odds are Brandon has no mirrors in the Cosmere, but given the numerous other hints at Quantum Physics, I wouldn't put it completely out of the realm of speculation. (the concept of mirrored universes came from probability waveform equations, go check out the Schrodinger's Cat argument for more details)

"Any investiture, over time, will slowly change one’s personality, no matter how small that investiture." source (use CNTL-F: investiture) I'd say that burning Pewter may build your muscles even without exercising, Just pulling out that Physically focused power makes your Investiture rub all friendly like with your Identity's physical bits, and well, you know the rest.