Colateralwar

Ok, so at the end with Hoid, my first assumption was that the Cryptic spren he rescues was Elokhar's spren. But, that just begs the question of why the Fused were apparently tearing the palace apart looking for it and why Hoid knew he had to be there to rescue it. I mean, its sad. Elokhar was literally seconds away from becoming a Radiant, saving his son and being the King he always hoped he could be before he was murdered. But, why does it matter? Thoughts?

I've been wondering when that stone is going to come back into play. It seems to me to be something like Voidlight. I think that just as the Highstorms fill gemstones with Stormlight, the Everstorm will fill them with this new kind of power. What exactly its going to do, and how it might play into the Voidbringers powers are another matter. But I am interested to see where it shows up again and how it comes into play.

Honestly, the only way I can see Sanderson cycling Kaladin back in prominence is by killing him--which I think might be what he is building to in book 5, unfortunately. The whole "force odium to select a champion" thing is where that is going, I think, and right now the three most obvious choices for Odium's champion are Szeth (for obvious reasons), Adolin (because the way his character is going he is either going to end up really really good or really really bad), and Moash (because he typifies the whole consumed by hatred to the point of attacking those he cares about thing). As much as I don't want Kaladin to die, there are only so many ways to back burner a character of this significance, and if Kaladin reaches all five ideals in the next two books then he will be either at or nearing the end of his character development, which for main characters usually means either death or stagnation >.<

Lirin as a radiant has been proposed somewhere else in these forums, I remember. Not sure where. Personally, I think the idea is worth noting. He is a good candidate from a character perspective, and after the events with his children he very well might qualify on the "broken" aspect as well. The only two real possibilities would be Truthwatcher or Edgedancer--because of the progression surge--but I don't think he really fits in either, though. The other issue is the one of overpowering characters. Thus far we have Kaladin, Shallan, Renarin, Dalinar, Jasnah, and possibly Elokhar and others as radiants. Adolin seems possible as well (many have speculated that he will "revive" his sword and bond the spren). If he makes any more of his main characters essentially super humans, it could make things difficult down the road. I like radiants, but there is something to be said for non-magical characters as well. Some of the best writing and character development I have ever read has come because the writer couldn't use magic as a fallback to solve problems. I'm by no means saying that Sanderson is guilty of this--he is very good at balancing the costs of magic use in his writing--but we could stand to see a few more main characters that aren't explicitly magical in nature.

I get what you are saying about no further emotional twists with Kaladin. His problems have largely been the impetus behind a great chunk of the narrative this far--which is fine, considering he is one of the main characters--but it can become problematic if it is the sole means of movement. Still, Kaladin has two main issues to address (character wise) I feel, and two ideals left to swear (look at that coincidence, lol): his issue with lighteyes and now being one, and his inner conflict about killing and protecting and the relationship between them. The most obvious way for him to confront either of these is through interaction with his past, and he is now literally going back to confront it. One or the other is likely to come into play in Stormlight 3. I have no problem with him dealing with his past in a non-Kaladin way, but I don't think he is there yet. Because of the third ideal he isn't going to kill Roshone regardless of what happens, I think, but I don't think he has reached the point where he can just accept what has happened either. This is where his father, if he lives and if he is still the same sort of man he was, will come into play. As for the whole other child thing, that would be interesting. I don't remember any passages explicitly mentioning his parents age, so it is physically possible. It wonder how Kaladin would react to that; I don't think he would be mad, but I don't think he would deal with it well either.

Ah, thanks Potato. I listen to the audiobooks, so i am guessing at pretty much all the spelling. Maxal: I agree with you that something other than expected would be nice. I could buy Lirin (thank you, Potato) remaining a good man--though that would be downright amazing considering the things that have happened to him--but I have a harder time buying Roshone becoming a better man. Its not impossible, and maybe it is a good idea just because it would force Kaladin into even tougher emotional situations (I mean, what do you do when the man that tormented your family and caused the death of your little brother turns his life around?). Still, its hard to credit considering his past. Regardless of how things proceeded with Kaladin gone, though, something needs to be wrong outside of the whole "oh crap the storm is blowing the wrong way and our slaves are starting to look a little evil." Its a book, and the beginning of one to boot; things need to be rife with conflict, physical and emotional, for the story to proceed.

The last we saw of Kaladin's father was the day that Tien and Kaladin were both drafted into the army. At this point he seems completely and utterly defeated, and it is unclear if either of the two had any communication with their parents when they were in the army (we know that Kaladin sent a message telling them Tien had died and that he would not be returning to Hearthstone, but, so far as we know, there was no reply). Now with Stormlight 3 coming and Kaladin returning to Hearthstone for the first time, the confrontation with both Roshone and his father are two of the highlights (or cringe moments) most readers are expecting. However, I am not sure that Leerin is still there. I doubt that Roshone ended his smear campaign against Kaladin's father, and with Leerin so completely dejected following the loss of his sons, he probably wouldn't have been able to stand it. An additional stressor--such as the news of Tien's death, Kaladin's enslavement, or something else (perhaps his mother died in the intervening years)--could have pushed Leerin over the edge, changing him into something rather dark. I think he may have gone to Kharbranth, and I think it is possible he has become involved in The Diagram. I don't have any real evidence to support this theory--no references to Leerin, or a man matching his description, were made in any scene involving Taravangian--but given the importance that Taravangian will play in the overall plot of the Stormlight archive I think we are going to start seeing more ties between him and the other characters. Having a family member in his direct orbit would do that. Additionally, it would play well into Kaladin's development: he still has yet to confront and deal with the contradiction of killing to protect. What character better exemplifies this belief than Taravangian and his "silent gatherers"? If his father has become involved in this, it could even lead to another ideal. Something like, "I will protect those I love, even from themselves." Thoughts? How do you think the reunion (if it happens) will go? How has Leerin changed, do you think?

He only heard the screaming once. All other times he thought he was communing with her, she was crying. Not sure if that is significant, or indicative of a different level of disconnect or "death"

I was re-reading WoR recently, and I was troubled by a question that popped up: namely, why did Syl "die" when she did? For those who haven't read it in a while, we are given to understand that Kaladin's uncertainty about what is right and wrong--as well as his involvement in the potential assassination of Elokhar--caused his bond with Syl to weaken. This led to his powers becoming intermittent, as well as Syl reverting to a non-bonded personality. However, the scene in which Syl actually "dies" is odd. It occurs when Kaladin is rushing to save Dalinar and prevent a disaster. He is PROTECTING. He is being a Radiant. So why is that the moment when his bond broke and Syl died? At first, I thought it was simply for dramatic presentation. By this point, Kaladin had already manifested his ability to fly, so dropping him off a cliff wasn't very dramatic--unless he was put in a position where he couldn't fly. However, later on, I think I discovered another answer. When Kaladin is in the process of "reviving" Syl while protecting Elokhar, he overhears an argument between Syl and the Stormfather. The Stormfather is attempting to forbid Syl from returning to Kaladin and Syl is screaming back at him and Syl says something important. She says something along the lines of "You cannot stop it if he says the words," implying, I believe, that he could stop the bond up to a certain point. Given this, as well as the comment the Stormfather says to Dalinar on the battlefield ("A daughter disobeys") and evidence that the Stormfather has sort of cracked in the head following the death of Tanavast, I believe that Syl's "death" was less due to Kaladin's uncertainty and more cause by the Stormfather actually breaking the bond at a moment he knew would likely result in Kaladin's death. Thoughts anyone? I might be reading too much into this, but the timing of it all really bothered me.

"Hey, is anyone up there? We're down here and we're making bad puns. Save us from ourselves!" Kaladin in the chasms with Shallan. Not sure about the exact wording, but thats the gist of it.

Interesting if you are right, since "The Valley" is the only description given for the location of The Nightwatcher. Given how many people seek her out, you'd think that someone would have stumbled upon Urithiru by now by accident if they are in the same mountain range.

I think Szeth's personal character arc is growing towards a redemption, actually, though this will likely take place after killing a good number of people. He is no longer truthless, and though he is definatley disturbed and tortured, he wants to be better. We see that all over his sections (his remorse, his tears and anger, and his despair that no one is able to kill him and end the killing). Nalan was right when he said that Szeth worshiped order, and now Szeth is free to determine that "order" by his own standards. Though they are led by Nalan, I don't think these "Skybreakers" are actually radiants. This is evident by the fact that Shallan's brother--who we know was a member (or it is hinted at, anyway)--did not have living shards. His plate and blade were as dull and lifeless as any in modern Roshar. The evidence suggests that Nalan and the other Heralds have gone mad by abandoning their duty. Personally, I think that Szeth is going to spend time with these Skybreakers, doing what he is told by Nalan (the supposed highest authority in the world when it comes to justice) and come to realize that justice is not being served. In the end, I believe that Szeth is being set up to become the first true Skybreaker since the recreance. Likely this will involve his orders to slay his own people, and he will discard Nightblood when he attracts a Highspren (i read somewhere that Highspren are the unique type of spren that bonded to Skybreakers, like Honorspren for Windrunners). Perhaps Zahel will play some role in this arc of Szeth's story; I think he came to Roshar to retrieve Nightblood.

I was re-reading both WoK and WoR and started to wonder about Sigzil. We know that Sigzil is definitely native to Roshar and that he is a trained Worldsinger. This is interesting in itself, but we have to remember that he was trained by Hoid/Wit. Given that, exactly how much does Sigzil know about what is going on in the Cosmere? Does he know about Odium, about Hoid's plan and the other worlds? About what is going on with Kaladin? There are places in WoK (I can't recall exactly where at the moment) where Sigzil looks at Kaladin or says something to him and seems to know A LOT more than he is letting on. Hoid is a very enigmatic character that is hard to get to know, and I think that Sanderson might be setting Sigzil up as our means of getting to know him--and his motives--better. What do you all think?

Hey everyone. I'm just curious to see what people can come up with for potential Ideals of the Knights radiant. Shout em out below! Provide the Order you think they belong to, then let em rip. Here is what I think one of the Lightweaver's Ideals might be: I will confront the truths no one else will.

Am I the only one that thinks there is something seriously wrong going on with these guys? From as far as I can tell, they are involved with at least two major conspiracy type things - Taravangian and his Silent Collectors, and Amaram's ambitions. I don't know if they are outright evil, or if they are like a neutral third party with their hands in a crazy number of pies, but they have an agenda - and I am extremely curious about what it might be.

I'm so excited. Maybe we will all get lucky and they will accidentally release the audiobook early. It happens quite a bit with audiobooks. Last two ones I got from audible, Scott Lynch's Republic of Thieves and Brian McClellan's Promise of Blood both had this happen. Its a great, devious little surprise.

Fair point, though, from what has been described in the released chapters, there are two specific sects of spren: those based on natural things (fire, wind, so on) and those based on human emotion or states (passion, anger, honor). Therefore, I think it stands to reason that there is a very real difference between windspren and honorspren aside from one of them simply being unbonded. I think that the reason Syl takes the shape of a windspren is something that will become very important in later books, or even WoR. Another thing to note is that, to my knowledge, Syl is the only "windspren" we have seen that is capable of altering her appearance. All the other ones seemed to have a fixed shape. This is further indication, and was a foreshadowed clue in WoK, that Syl was not a windspren. But as for why she takes that shape, I havent the foggiest. But I am very interested to find out, and to discover how Sanderson is going to handle this whole "Spren Society" thing. I really didn't see that coming.

Umm, Syl is Honorspren not windspren. Pretty important.

Personally, I agree. I don't want Shen to go evil. I think he is going to be a very important character, but i also understand the need for Sanderson to impress upon the narrative the dangers of the Voidbringers in the most poignant way possible. From what I can tell, this will involve taking Shen, a character we already know, and elevating him to prominance (most likely by having him break free from whatever it is that was done to the Parshmen) and then have it go wrong. This could be, and probably will be done with the other Parshendi as well, but since we do not have any invested interest in them emotionally it wouldn't have the same impact it would if Shen is the example. Again, I personally don't want Shen to go bad, but for the sake of the story it is likely that Shen's tale will not end happily. He might die, or he might go evil, but either way I don't see happiness in the forecast. But I would love to be wrong in this case, since I think he will be an intriguing character once he comes out of his shell.

I think it was Shen. They have already mentioned that he is comming out of his stupor, and it is important that he is the first of the Parshmen to regain his wits. However, I think it is also appropriate that he be the first one to go mad and start killing. Kaladin will probably end up killing Shen in this book.

Szeth's character, like Shallan's, is interesting now. Their current conflict makes them extremely enjoyable to follow. However, I fear that both of their back stories, while intriguing, will pale in comparison to their current situations (this goes more for Shallan than Szeth). But we will see, and I have every hope that these prove empty fears.

1. Kaladin and Szeth Fight Scene: Szeth has explicitly stated that he is starting to hate those he kills simply because they cannot defend themselves against him. Kaladin might be one of the only individuals on Roshar that is a match for him at this point. I want to see how Szeth reacts to this. 2. Kaladin Kills Amaram: I realize that this will actually be a backward step for his character, but he deserves to kill him. Or, if not kill him, i want him to find a way to destroy the shards he stole... yes please. 3. Bridge Four - Someone Becomes a Radiant: Skar, Teft, Sigzil, and Moash are the most likely candidates here, but anything could happen. (This post has been reported for attempting to skirt the rules is going on with Dabbid, talk already would ya). 4. Bridge Four - Kaladin Gives Rock Shards: Kaladin does not want shards, but if he gets any, which is likely, he will probably try to get rid of them like he did last time. If he is going to give them to anyone, I think they should go to Rock. All hail the new king of the Unkalaki! 5. Bridge Four - Shen Binds A Spren: Shen needs to be the first Parshman to "wake up" and recover from whatever it is that humanity did to them. i would like to see it happen in this book, but I will probably be left waiting. I just hope that he doesnt end up being killed by Kaladin if he becomes a voidbringer. 6. Szeth Kills His Master: This IS going to happen. But probably not until his book, book three I believe. 7. Dalinar Becomes A Radiant: We all love Dalinar, and we all want him to kick chull. Enough said. 8. Taln Isn't Dead: There is a good deal of speculation that he is dead, because of the whole shard blade not disappearing thing, but I hope he isn't. I want him to take some serious vengeance on the other Heralds for ditching him in Damnation. 9. Kaladin Confronts His Father: This would be a very interesting conversation I think. The mixture of pride, hate, shame, love, and guilt will make for some tense scenes. 10. Wit: I just want to see more of him.

Between Kaladin and Dalinar, I think that Dalinar is more likely. For two main reasons: One: Kaladin is just too obvious a choice, same thing with Szeth, and while I think it could still be very possible it seems less likely to me.(Though I am still not sure if the figure Kaladin spoke to in the storm was Jezrien or Odium. While it would make sense that it might be Jezrien, he is the storm father, the fact that the final desolation is also linked to The Everstom gives Odium a tie to the storms as well. It could be either, could be neither, but it would seriously affect my opinion of the path Kaladin would take if I knew which one it was.) Two:I still find it very strange that Dalinar is only now receiving these visions, even though Honor has been dead for a very long time now. I think it more likely that The Radiants have a very important role to play in the Final Desolation (as in, they could actually help it along rather than stop it) and Odium is manipulating people like Dalinar in order to bring them back. This would be a very nice twist, since it works on both character and plot levels.

If nothing else, Kaladin and Jasnah will get along swimmingly due to their mutual hatred/dislike for Amaram.

I hadn't considered Rysn, good point. I didn't think to take the "explorer" bit literaly... I kinda assumed it was the name of a yet to be described Knights Radiant order. And, if Dalinar is The Bondsmith, i am very eager to see his advent as a Radiant.