CtrlAltDepressed

I would strongly recommend that you bring an adult with you to the convention. I have never been to Dragonsteel Nexus specifically but I have been to other conventions and for your safety (and a number of other potential reasons) you should have an adult present - even if you are technically allowed to attend without one. 

Might want to remove any spoilers from the title....

Hello all,

This was an idea that popped into my head that has little to no evidence and is purely for fun. 

We know that Lift and Vasher are going to be hanging out.

We know that Vasher is on Roshar for easy investiture.

Now, I think Vasher will just pray to Retribution like everyone else - but I could also seem him refusing to do so. 

Heres the idea:

A buddy comedy style book of grumpy, centuries old Vasher moving through the cognitive realm with Lift, the child who refuses to grow up, while they search for a new planet. 

I know this wont happen but it was fun to think about. 

1 hour ago, AlmightyGir said:

What are you *really* hung up on?

Agreed. Though I don't know if that conversation is truly relevant. 

18 minutes ago, Returned said:

Sorry I can't quote you directly, @MagicMaggot (I'd posted before I saw your comment),

You can copy a quote from a new submission and then paste in into your edit. Its a bit wonky but it works.

Steps:

highlight desired section

hit quote selection

click on quote box that appears in new submission

ctrl + c (or equivalent)

close new submission and open edit post

ctrl + v (or equivalent)

you should now have a quoted section that you can add to an edit

2 minutes ago, Ahriman said:

And I'm not saying interspecies romance shouldn't ever be acceptable, I just find it odd when questioning it isn't treated as reasonable.

I think because to a lot of people, there isn't anything to think about. 

• Can they willingly consent?
• Are they cute? 

That is the thought process of a majority of people when seeing this in media. It's kind of human nature. We did this to other humanoid species in our past and there is no doubt in my mind that if we encountered a humanoid sapient alien species that it would not take long at all for people to start dating them. 

6 minutes ago, Ahriman said:

humans with different bodies that's much less interesting to me

Unfortunately Brandon is a human that has only ever talked to humans. He has no idea what an actual alien would be like, no one does, so the best we can do is make them human. Even in Star Trek, where there are very inhuman species, they are all still very human in a lot of ways. Needing community, mental stimulation, love of art, intense emotions. 

I think its good that you are thinking critically about this, and I dont want to imply that we should just accept every relationship we see as good, inter species or not. You have to evaluate on an individual level. Like Hoid and Jasnah - both humans - but anyone could have said that its weird a 10,000+ year old guy is dating a 30 year old. Looking at the relationship itself, Rlain and Renarin make a lot of sense to me. 

There are other relationships that might not make sense to me, but wether they do or dont wont be based on what species they are or what they look like. It will be based on wether the relationship is beneficial for both parties. If thats the case, nothing else really matters. 

14 hours ago, Ahriman said:

I've always found the general comfort with interspecies relationships odd. Not necessarily bad, but I've always wondered why "Is this acceptable?" is rarely treated as a decent question within these narratives or in real-world discussion of them.

Because at the end of the day people are people. Wether they are old or young, large or small, yolish or singer - thats a person. This extends to spren too, it seems. Its clear that Brandon wants us to view all of these different groups as people. I think there is some alien prejudice involved in this discussion because people are imagining real life aliens. Thats why this is acceptable (imo).

These aren't real life aliens. They are a species that has been living in concert with humans for THOUSANDS of years. Its not like a singer hopped off a spaceship and immediately started dating a human. Even if that was the case, they all have a common creator. Ado clearly intended for species to be able to breed, or they wouldn't have allowed that. 

There is a lot of this in the cosmere. We have Wax and Wayne both dating Kandra (who are far more inhuman than singers, they literally eat humans). We have heralds dating humans when they are basically spren. We have Hoid dating Jasnah even though he knew her great great great great great great grandpa. We have Syladin basically comfirmed. 

People are people, and this is a fantasy universe. I expect us to see all kinds of relationships. Dragons with humans, humans and sho-del, shard and human, sleepless and dragon, spren and sho-del could all be possible. 

26 minutes ago, alder24 said:

Maybe they could even develop a spike gun, but that's another discussion.

Guns are already spike guns

1 hour ago, alder24 said:

Radiants all across Roshar can't do it because Stormlight is gone

What do you think of the possibility of navani separating stormlight from either warlight or towerlight using her rhythm experiments from ROW? 

So we know that Retribution attempted to recall all the spren, and the new oathpact now protects their lives.

My question is, who exactly is protected by this? Are the unmade and Voidspren included in this protection?

Here is the quote from the book about the chasmfiend singing.

I think a 4th shard hiding in the system could be really cool if done correctly. For instance, the Iriali. 

This is what SR hoid says:

I think the theory that the Iriali are Reason / Valor is very solid right now. So yea, there was a 4th shard in the system technically, but it appeared to everyone else to be just a group of migratory people. 

14 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Evidence: A month after the Stormfall still no magical healing in Azimir. Either they don't get Warlight or it does not work.
Reason: It has an odium-component that makes it unsuitable

It has only been a month and the city was besieged. Azir will be able to get Warlight when things have settled a bit and they can start trading with their neighbors. 

14 hours ago, Oltux72 said:

Do the tones for Odium and Honor still exist? I mean sure you can play them, but do they still mean anything in an arcane sense?

Spoilers (lost metal): 

14 hours ago, Ewery1 said:

The problem with applying Navani’s experiments here is that it’s not clear that they’ll work anymore.

Why wouldn't they?? So we spend an ENTIRE book experimenting with the rhythms and then the next book all of that is irrelevant now? I highly doubt that. Manipulating lights should be far easier than any solid form of investiture. I would be extremely disappointed if Navanis experiments mean nothing.

14 hours ago, Ewery1 said:

I would not be surprised if the Rhythm of War is unified without constituent parts. 

I definitely would - because that is not the Rhythm of War. We know from the book ROW that the rhythm of war is the combination of honor and odium, like towerlight is the combination of honor and cultivation. If they were merged into one rhythm, it would no longer be the Rhythm of War. It would be the pure tone of whatever shard that becomes. Retribution is a single shard made of two intents. Those two intents are still distinct within him. 

Wat page 1295

Quote

 

They are protected, his powers said.

By what? Retribution demanded.

By an oath and a circle, the powers said. By Adonalsiums strength. Ten stand against you, using the piece of us within them. Honor demands their oaths be followed.

 

As evidenced by this passage, he holds two distinct intents. Not one. Honor still very much exists, it is just now entangled with odium. 

2 hours ago, Isilel said:

See above, but there is also no reason to think that an uncorrupted Windrunner can use Warlight. Also, all of Urithiru is enclosed in a crystal bubble.

I dont see why they couldnt. They are able to use towerlight, why should warlight be any different?

If for some reason they arent, Navanis experiments should still be valid: separating warlight / towerlight for usable stormlight using the rhythms.

The spren, through the new oathpact, are separate from Retribution - otherwise they would be absorbed. This should mean that their powers work as they did before.

I heard that they wont sell it until tomorrow. Their POS system should prevent the sale from going through. At least, thats what my local bookstore is doing.

They want to be prepared for the rush tomorrow so have set out the displays, but won't sell until tomorrow. 

11 hours ago, eriwancoselyn said:

tbh, I'm not convinced that Toduim could even hold honor right now.

This is fair, but I do see it a different way. 

I agree that Taravangian has not been Honorable by standard definitions. He has lied, cheated, and killed to achieve his goals. 

But, what are those goals? To save everyone. This is certainly honorable, even if the execution of that goal is not. 

He desires no praise or recognition for his work, and has even accepted that many will hate him for what he does, but that is his burden to bear as King. We see that compassionate Taravangian weeps for those he has hurt, and for what he has become / done. This is certainly honorable. He hates what he has to do, but he believes it to be the right thing and so he does it anyway. That is the definition of Honor. 

 We know that Honor was obsessed with oath keeping at the end, and didnt care about the contents of that oath - just that it was upheld. Honor is not about being a nice person, it is about sticking to a code of conduct. Taravangian does that. 

From Taravangians perspective, he has acted with Honor. Not all the time, but who does ? Even Kaladin falls short sometimes. (Taravangian is definitely a villian and a terrible person, that is not what i mean)

11 hours ago, eriwancoselyn said:

At worst, the conflicting forces of Honor and Odium inside him would combine with his logical/emotional issue to create something even more impotent then Harmony, completely unable to take even basic actions.

Yes, I think this is the point. This would be a semi permanent solution to the Odium problem. Taravangian doing 'the right thing' would be taking up Honor to temper Odium, even though he doesnt want to. That act, if he chose to do so, would itself be a great example of Honor. 

20 hours ago, alder24 said:

Start preparing for the SA 6 by rereading the entirety of SA one chapter every monday. In total that's 502 weeks (counting Edgedancer and Dawnshard), which is around 9.6 years - just in time for SA 6 premiere! 

I will be almost 40 years old when the next stormlight book comes out. 

Wow wow wow.

El is a very interesting character. Im excited to learn more about the history of the Heralds through him. I also really liked his perspective on TOdium.

What is the price that Dai-Gonarthis requires? This is definitely going to be important. 

Also, they need a lot of Investiture for DG to be able to help them. I wonder why? She must be trapped somewhere?

Poor Horneaters, I dont think this next sequence of events is going to go well for them. 

Also POOR SIGZIL. He was already outgunned and now there is going to be an unmade and additional Fused at the shattered plains. Wow. He doesnt stand a chance. 

I love the Taravangian perspectives. They are so good. I liked the nod to the shard that is completely hidden, guessing that is the Survival shard we have heard so much (little) about. Valor is hidden..........super super super interested. Why is she hidden? HOW is she hidden? So many questions! I really hope that we learn more about Valor, and that wasnt the extent of the namedrop. 

Cultivation tells Taravangian to do the right thing. Im guessing right now that is to take up the shard of Honor. Taravangian knows that Odiums plan is horrible, although effective. He will need to make the choice that Rayse never could - to intentionally restrict himself by taking on another intent. Will he actually make that choice? I dont think he will, personally. Perhaps this is the decision Brandon said he changed last minute? 

37 minutes ago, slanted said:

will he

I could see this working for sure. Kaladin essentially cant kill anyone anymore, so Szeth doing it makes a lot of narrative sense to me. 

1 hour ago, Trusk'our said:

This is correct. 

That wob would have saved us H O U R S of debate 

Thank you

Personally, I believe this is due to the culture of Roshar. 

A swordsman is seen as a more elite fighter, a higher class warrior. Some of this on Roshar is definitely due to Radiants, however there is a natural inclination towards this. 

Even in our society a swordsman was a higher class warrior than a spearman. It takes a lot of dedication and money to be able to use a sword effectively, which is not true of a spear. Spears require less training and are far far cheaper to produce. 

Following this logic, it makes sense to me that most Radiants would have used swords. There was an established social hierarchy for what weapons a high class person would use, and we know that Radiants were the top class citizens, as evidenced by the lighteye vs darkeye distinction that exists even today. They would have been pressured socially to use a sword, and indeed many probably did not even consider an alternative weapon.

I am sure that some Radiants used spears and other weapons besides swords. However, when the Radiants abandoned their oaths, they were far into the history of Radiants existing. There would have been historical and cultural pressure to use a sword. When they dropped their weapons as deadblades, all the darkeyed people would know that a sword is seen more favorably than a spear, and would have wanted the dead swords more than dead spears. 

We only have a very very small percentage of deadblades compared to all the deadeye spren. Another real world example: we have many many many fantastically preserved Japanese Katanas from their time periods. However, we have very very few well preserved English longswords from a similar time period. Why is that? Well, the Japanese had a culture surrounding the upkeep and preservation of their swords as family heritage, while the English did not. Most longswords from the time were melted down in the following wars or industrialization. 

Of course the only deadblades that have lasted the thousands of years are the most prized ones. This makes sense to me. I dont think a sword is the default shape. I think there absolutely were other types of deadblades, they just simply havent made it through the test of time. 

6 minutes ago, Lewis Nethur said:

What'd you think? I'm liking the overall cut of your jib on this, but I don't like the hemalurgy explanation.

I like this, but I see an issue. We know that divine breath cannot be used for awakening, so this would have had to be a healing. Im not sure how healing Nightblood gets him in his current situation, but its certainly possible, I think. 

47 minutes ago, Trusk'our said:

Hemalurgically spiking a Divine Breath wouldn't require extra Investiture if it were given to a non-shadow.

Is there no way that a sufficiently invested / awakened object would not mirror a cognitive shadow?

12 minutes ago, Xiahida said:

But steel can't steel Breaths (hehe) it can only steal physical Allomancy. For some reason steel lets Nightblood do what he does

Sorry I should have been more clear in my post. 

This is what im proposing:

Nightblood was normal steel

He was awakened originally with 1000 breaths

Once that was done, he was no longer normal steel because he contained 1000 breaths and could be considered a god metal

Since he was a god metal, which we know can be used for spikes, his hemalurgic effect would be unknown

16 minutes ago, listerfeend said:

Wouldn't Nightblood be too invested, with 1000 breaths, to be used as a spike? I'm pretty sure that much investiture would resist the amounts of investiture a spike would be taking.

Absolutely it would be difficult, but we know that pure god metals can be used as spikes (lerasium + atium). The pure physical form of a god metal is the ceiling of investiture concentration. Nightblood cant hold more than being pure investiture so he absolutely would have been able to be used as a spike when he had only 1000 breaths.

Hello All,

**SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING**

There are many questions floating around in the Cosmere, most of which wont have answers for years. One, however, has constantly nagged at me. 

Why is Nightblood the way that he is?

Things we know (I will try to find the wobs for these later, please correct if wrong):

• Nightblood was normal steel before being awakened
• Shasharra was the one who performed the awakening
• Nightblood did not start leaking black smoke until after he was used to kill Shasharra
  • Its unclear if he functioned the same way before this moment. However, the fact that his sheath of aluminum was made some time after his creation implies the death of Shasharra 'broke' Nightblood in some way, and led to his unique existence.
• Nightblood contains Ruins investiture
  • could be that he has eaten Scadrians, but there is a wob that implies this is not the case (up for debate)
• Due to the steel he is made of absorbing so much investiture, Nightblood can be considered a god metal
• Nightblood, currently, could NOT be used as a spike - he is too invested
• Excess investiture Nightblood consumes leaks as black smoke 
• Endowment was involved in Nightbloods creation 'more than normal'

Alright, for the theory:

Nightblood was very similar to Vivennas current blade when awakened. He replicated a shardblade, but was not the destructive monster we see now. His mind was not nearly as advanced, and he did not need / forcibly consume anything he comes into contact with. These are assumptions on how Vivennas blade works just based on the limited interaction we have had with her blade. 

Since Nightblood was awakened with 1000 breaths, he was significantly invested upon his creation and would have been considered a god metal at that point.

When Vasher killed Shasharra with Nightblood, his intention was to kill her. He wanted to take her Returned life. His intention, in a way, was to steal her Divine Breath. 

I propose that Nightblood was used as a spike when he killed Shasharra. Vasher did not mean to use Nightblood as a spike, but his intention WAS to take Shasharras Divine breath. 

If we take this proposal as fact, a LOT of things start to line up. 

Nightblood is incredibly aware compared to all other awakenings we have seen. This makes sense if he is an artificial Returned. He has the full soul of a real person, but is constrained to the physicality of a sword. This leads to his issues with time and continuity. 

This also makes sense for why he MUST consume investiture constantly. He must sustain his Divine Breath. If this is the case, why does he consume so much? Nightblood is not a person. He is a sword, so he has no natural limiter for 'i am full' or 'im healthy again' like we see with Lightsong. 

Lightsong is in a persons body and is disgusted by needing weekly breaths. He only gets another when he absolutely is about to die. Nightblood would have no measure for this other than completely full, and thus consumes extreme amounts whenever he is even slightly below full. 

If he was briefly a spike, Nightblood would absolutely contain Ruin's investiture as we suspect (know?) that spikes either slightly or fully spin the investiture contained into Ruins. 

This would also explain Endowments involvement. Its clear Vasher and Shasharra had no idea that Endowment was involved, so how does this line up?

We know Endowment is in control of the Returned. To what extent, we arent exactly sure, but she is actively involved. Endowment allowed Nightblood to keep the Divine breath that he stole from Shasharra. Endowment could have easily reverted this, or prevented it, but didnt. We know Endowment has great future sight and has plans on plans. Clearly allowing Nightblood to live is a part of her plans. 

Let me know your alls thoughts! Do you think this possible?

Wobs:

31 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

hoid has a special holy rock from ashyn because he was there when they crossed planets... wait, did he kept it for 7000 years in his pocket?

yes  wob (emphasis mine):