Jaconis

Seems like a good idea that they are more connected to Honor than I've seen stated yet, and they could even be Splinters (although I find that unlikely), but that doesn't mean that Honor has been dead a lot longer than we think. Firstly, let's look at the only thing we have 100% confirmation to be Splinters: Returned. Returned did not come from the death of the holder of Endowment. In fact, Returned existed specifically because Endowment chose to return them. I think that many people are hearing the word "Splinter" and thinking it's the Shard falling apart, probably because of Hoid's letter stating (paraphased), "that which Aona and Skai once held has now been splintered." That said, as I've shown, we know for a fact that someone having a Splinter of shard's power does not mean the holder of the shard is dead. Secondly, as I've said, I agree that Shardplate and Shardblades most likely come from the power of Honor (or some other shard), especially considering that statement from Brandon. However, from what we've seen of Splinters so far, they don't seem to be objects. They seem more like extra powerful users of a particular magic or concentrated bits of the fuel of a particular magic, potentially at the cost of that magic's lesser fuel. Having said that, I think the Heralds are more likely to be Splinters than the plate and blades. Perhaps hey were giving a Splinters of Honor's power as a part of the Oathpact, and when they no longer honored that oath they lost their powers?

Very good point. Also, Jasnah's quotes could very well have been altered. We know shards have the power to change words on a page; it makes total sense for Odiun to change the histories to make it look like a friend is an ancient enemy resurfaced. That said, I don't really feel like this is what's happening, as Brandon already used this trick. Also, I'm not sure writing in steel would save the words anymore, now that we are away from the shards who gave the Metallic Arts. EDIT: Also, I think this may be Szeth talking Tarawhatshisname.

I didn't think of this before, but I'm not really sure it can be a spren. Whomever is talking to Dalinar here clearly has knowledge of the world as it was in ages past. From everything we've seen, spren in their "natural" (sans bond), have very poor memories, unable to remember what happened 30 seconds ago, let alone thousands of years. Of course, it's possible that the spren bonded with Dalinar long before this event, long before the aforementioned Chasmfiend hunt. I find this unlikely though, as no spren as been shown the communicate with Dalinar yet. Maybe different kind of spren go about the bond differently, but assuming they regain their intelligence and memories at the same rate, Dalinar's spren would have had to bond with him months and months ago to remember things from so long ago. Syl started bonding with Kalladin while he was still in Amaram's (sp?) army, then at least 8 months as a slave, then the entire length of the book and she still doesn't remember the Knights Radiant. I was hoping it was a spren as well, as that would mean Dalinar is that much closer to realizes his powers. I agree with you that he is likely becoming a member of the order associated with Taln, but unless his spren is wildly different from Syl, I don't think this voice is proof of it.

I like your idea about the origins of the spren, and how they are cognitive aspects of emotions or objects. After what you've had to say though, I've had a thought. What if there is actually no difference between honorspren and windspren? In other words, is it possible that all windspren are simply honorspren who are not bound to anyone and have therefore lost themselves? This would also explain why there are no windspren or firespren during Dalinar's vision. They are all still bonded to Knights Radiant at the time of the visions, and thus wouldn't show up until the bonds are broken and the spren lose themselves. One thing we don't know that would help this idea is if all bonded honorspren give windrunner surge powers, or if all windrunners got their powers from honorspren. If honorspren bond = Windrunner, then it makes sense they have a liking to riding he wind, would spend their time doing that when they are "dumb" and lost, and would end up mistakenly being named windspren.

I sort of took that exchange to be what she believed, but not anything proven. Nothing we've seen so far shows that spren are "cut up" versions of a big spren of the same type, nor has that idea been mentioned again. We are, of course, only one book in, so I don't know, I could be completely wrong. On a different subject, I just got to the part where Dalinar finally goes on a plateau assault for the first time in the book (Chapter 26, using the ebook, so don't have page numbers) and found this of note. This is right after he becomes disgusted with the Thrill, and it is no longer consuming him. Whose voice is this? We've seen that shards have the power to speak directly into a persons mind, but only when they have some sort of connection with the shard. The voice seems to be spouting Honor's philosophy, but Honor is supposedly dead and other shards seem unlikely. We've also seen that spren can apparently speak directly into the mind of the one they are bonded to, but that was only a fairly strong bond between Syl and Kalladin. It's possible there's a bond that exists between Dalinar and some spren, but that seems unlikely considering he's never reportedly spoken to one. We also don't know for sure that a bond is required for this telepathy. Thoughts?

I've been looking through the brandonthology, but haven't found any mention of the strong or weak atomic force, nor the electromagnetic force. Can you post the quote or where you found it?

Dalinar doesn't see any spren, but Nohadon mentions them and the bond, so they clearly existed then. Like I said, the fact that the spren have one mind doesn't necessarily mean they are connected to Honor. I can't fully explain why, it just makes sense to me that if the spren are essentially one mind, and are required for stormlight fueled magic which is apparently of Honor, that the "one mind" would be Honor.

I don't necessarily mean Sadeas himself, just someone from his "camp". Also, as I said, I don't know that saying someone isn't showing a characteristic typical of the Knights is a valid argument against that person eventually changing their ways. Adolin didn't agree with the that first ideal in the beginning either, but eventually came to accept it and the codes. I forgot about Syl fighting the deathspren. That seems to contradict what she said about them being the same person, regardless if it shows a connection to Honor or not.

So I just recently got around to rereading WoK, and I've found a few things worth noting that I didn't notice on other read throughs or seen here. I'm not finished with the reread, so I'm sure there will be more o add as I finish. 1. The first is really the least important, as it doesn't really have anything to do with the story, and may not follow the same pattern that I've noticed. The Shard Preservation, whose original mortal holder was named LERAS, has a bodily essence named LERASium. Similarly, the Shard of Ruin, whose original mortal holder was named ATI, has a bodily essence named ATIum. Does this trend exist simply because the bodily essence of these two shards happen to be metallic and the -ium suffix gives a metallic sounding name, or does this speak of a larger naming convention? Are we going to get Tanavastium and Rayseium? 2. This has to do with something Syl says off-handedly, that, IMO, could be important. Its from when she and Kalladin are talking about how strange people act. "People are discord," Syl said. "What does that mean?" "You all act differently and think differently. Nothing else is like that - animals act alike, and all spren are, in a sense, virtually the same individual." It is that last line that I think is important. I'm not sure how to explain myself properly, but to me this is proof that the spren are the bodily essence of the Honor, and are connected and/or controlled by him. This is why the Nahel bond is needed to use the magic of Honor. I know it's been stated that spren have to do with Honor, but I hadn't seen this as an argument yet. 3. I think there is some connection between Sadeas and his war camp with the fifth essence (Palah) and therefore the order of Knights Radiant associated with it. The gem focus is an emerald, Sadeas' colors are green. The soulcasting property associated with the essence is wood, Sadeas' camp holds the only forest and deals with wood frequently. These are small things that could be chalked up as coincidence, but Sanderson is usually very detailed and doesn't leave things that don't have a purpose. The main thing that doesn't line up is the trait associated with the order. Learned/Giving seems to be much more associated with Jasnah than anyone we've met from Sadeas' camp, but that doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong. After all, Shallon wasnt exactly honest until the end of the novel, and it's widely accepted the she will belong to the order that is supposed to be Creative/Honest. Anyway, what are your thoughts? Agree? Disagree? Am I way off on all of this?