Nogo

1 hour ago, QuantumAce said:

My take is that Wax is the best shot we have seen in the Cosmere, while Taln may have the potential to be better. But if we are judging based on pure potential, my money would be on Rashek. Fullborn with peak allomantic strength provides an extensive degree of control. I am disqualifying Hoid based on him being Hoid. 

Wow!  I didn't think about that.  Rashek can probably maximize shooting beyond what any non-shard entity could.  With all 16 metals plus compounding... Rashek could expand maximum range of a weapon far beyond its natural distance using a push.  Plus, he could calculate exactly where that bullet would land by tapping his mental acuity (which is basically unlimited because of compounding).  So do that, plus add mass amounts of fortune when he shoots... plus pewter to stabilize, duraluminum steel push on the bullet (which his brain already takes into account for).  Yeah, I agree Rashek's potential is king.  The dude could probably hit the head of a needle with a pistol from 10 miles away.

ADD tangent... edgedancers would probably make great shooters as well as they could take friction off of the bullets and completely avoid wind resistance.  They can make objects awesome... right?  The fuzed did with the Drop in OB didn't they?

I think Hoid probably gets disqualified at every opportunity anyone can find 

I'm not surprised that Wax has the majority of the votes.  I, however, went out on a limb with Taln.  I can't really back up my vote a lot because we don't really know his skills... but I imagine the best of the best of the heralds would be pretty amazing.  Especially considering the whooping the middle of the road herald gave some pretty good fighters.   However, who knows if he ever even shot anything ever... I just don't know.  But I wouldn't bet against him.

There's my two cents.

Ok, so this whole thread makes me feel really old...  that being said what about the old guys???

I'd have to go with Dalinar and Taravangian but only because the toxicity is funny to me.  But they already have--maybe had-- a bromance (ish).

2 hours ago, Greywatch said:

I think Dalinar responded basically the exact same way as Moash: with complete denial and avoidance of his own responsibility for his actions. He had a period of wretched and immoral denial of his own actions for years. He didn't respond to his own actions "the right way" until Oathbringer, which is multitudes more time than Moash is getting before judgment. If Dalinar can try and turn himself around in the face of righteous hatred from the people whose lives he's wrecked (the Herdazians were too nice to him), then so can Moash.

I disagree almost completely.  I see Moash and Dalinar as vastly different.  Dalinar never denied his own actions until Cultivation took the memories from him.  Also, he did not intentionally burn his Evi--he intentionally burned the "hiding area."   Moash intentionally did everything he has done.  As for the city itself, Dalinar burned the Rift in a rage.  Moash never did his actions in the spur of the moment, but rather after cool INTENTIONAL thought.  Intent is key... wait, I think I have heard that before....    

I can see how you can draw some similarities between Dalinar and Moash, but I don't agree that they are comparable creatures.  Dalinar, for the most part, always thought he was doing the right thing.  He and Szeth are much more similar than him and Moash.  Moash knows that he's doing wrong.  He just does it anyways.   

5 hours ago, Amira said:

SA3, chapters 2-3: We see the contrast between present day Dalinar trying to unite everyone in peace and young Dalinar being a killing machine. I wonder if the Thrill is somehow the same as the listeners' rhythm of war. I can see why Dalinar and Sadeas used to get along. And as horrible a person as Dalinar was, it's fun to read about someone with a high level of skill at something. I liked how he decided to take on that archer after being impressed with his skill.

I absolutely LOVE the Dalinar flashbacks in OB.  He reminds me of my young days being a soldier and just doing the job regardless of the humanity involved.  And yes, his recruitment of Teleb is very meaningful IMO.  It shows that he has honor even then... but an honor based on perspective.  But he's also ruthless which kind of puts a black mark *giggles* on that. 

Keep enjoying Oathbringer.  It is my personal favorite SA book (though Way of Kings is a very VERY close 2nd).

Random thought here.  Is it possible that the capturing of BAM interrupted/distorted/made more diffcult the spren ability to transfer from CR to PR to seek a bond.   And then the dead-eyes were sent back to CR during the Recreance.   If Adolin brings Maya to the PR the old fashioned way (and Shallan with Testament!), maybe once in the PR they can really get that bond going.

I'm glass half full (maybe empty) about the reverse bond. @alder24I see what you're saying, but also the bond is supposed to be symbiotic and I don't see how it could really be reversed.  I have read many of your previous posts in this regard, and like I say I agree in a lot of ways, (and I see a future headache coming here) but I don't see how the bond could be reversed, or inverted or anything like that.  Anyways, gotta get to work.  

27 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

This would also explain the Eila Stele - survivors from the Singer "tribe" that first warred with humans leaving their assigned territory wrote it as a warrning to other tribes of Singers across the continent.

I like this thought and definitely got a very personal vibe out of the Elia Stele vs a large encompassing historical document.

29 minutes ago, Treamayne said:

But I was not alluding that Humans settled all of non-Shin Roshar within a generation (and we have no indications that the early "desolations" were continent-wide either). I mean that, to me, I would have expected humans to start crossing the mountains to "find new frontiers to settle" within a few decades of arrival. We only "know" that the desolations involved all of humanity - but if all the humans were within, say, 50 miles of the land granted to them (whatever the size of that was - probably not the same borders as "modern" Shinovar) then the first desolation could very well have been the same "scale" as an Alethi-Herdaz border skirmish. 

This makes sense... but we do know that the fuzed were created at generally all the same time.  If the fuzed were really the "lighteyes" of singer civilization... I think the border war theory would be too small to fill the ranks of the fuzed.  Honestly, I don't think you're wrong with your theory here... it seems weird to have the huge continent of Roshar all fighting (pre-oathgates) within a couple generations of the Ashyn migration.  Idk, I'm having a hard time meshing the information we have on hand right now.  There are a lot of fuzed and it seems unlikely they were just a small section of signer society 7000 years ago.  Or maybe that makes sense and the fuzed are the survivors of the first tribes of singers that humans bulldozed over on in their ever expanding sense of worldly entitlement... So my overall thesis here is... idk, but I like these ideas and thinkings.

23 hours ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

Maybe I should start a whole different thread, but I am looking forward to some justice being doled out in Shinovar. I am not particularly blood thirsty, but if the situation was as cut and dry as, "Szeth tried to warn his superiors of imminent danger, and they decided to reject him in such a way as to force him to be one of Roshar's most prolific murderers" ...Well, some folks would need to answer for that.

I also realize that we know next to nothing about Shinovar..their Culture..what knowledge they retain that most of Roshar doesn't..what specifically Szeth did, and specifically what the response to that was, and why? All that stuff is in the dark. But damnation, somebody needs to be held accountable to some extent.

I also say all of this, fully expecting for BS to turn all of my expectations on their heads about 7 pages into Szeth and Kaladin getting to Shinovar. So, there's that as well.

I am also very excited for the trip to Shinovar.  I dunno about doling out justice... but I'm just excited to see pissed off Szeth, Nightblood, and Kaladin rampaging around Shinovar.  Like throwing a torch into a powder keg.  No way that story is less than amazing.  Plus, like you say, we FINALLY might get some answers about Shinovar and the Shin.  We know nothing!

On 3/11/2022 at 10:41 AM, Ixthos said:

First, putting aside how he is wrong, and fish - when cooked properly - is amazing (and lets not forget sushi), it is interesting that his first thought upon awakening or becoming conscious is that he doesn't like fish. So, what was happening moments before? I assume fish somehow tie into it, but he was in the middle of burning plant matter, so it probably happened just before or was related to just before he arrived.

So, for what reason was how much didn't like fish the first thing he thought about? 

Well, many people say "carpe diem" before they do something rash.  I guess now days we say YOLO...  but he was a carpe diem guy.  Actually, a "carp diem" guy with his fish joke on the heals of it.  I'd wager a whole lot that he was thinking it when he stepped through the portal to come to the new dimension.  So, when his memory was blanked in the process the only remaining think in his brain's RAM was fish... from his silly play on words he liked to say.

That's my take on it at least.

I have noticed this phenomenon as well and like pretty much everything written above.   Really digging the connection comments between Nightblood and its holder as well as the whole intent thing which, in Szeth's case, is potentially super scary if fully unleashed (Shinovar... you poor poor people, maybe).  

I really do miss Nightblood's banter from Warbreaker.  Yeah, its SA banter still makes me giggle sometimes and the like, but its just not as good.  If you sit and think about it though, Vasher is a deep thinking scholarly individual who is (until he Monks out) constantly on the move trying to achieve huge, planet altering ends.   Szeth, on the other hand, has spent his time with Nightblood doing very little on a day to day basis.  So even though there has been some things to discuss (Nale, becoming a Skybreaker, a couple battles) Nightblood has not been part of any strategic things.  Even the whole Taravangian thing was done without Szeth or Nightblood being involved intellectually.  I really think that, because of Szeth's quiet, stoic nature (at least now days) Nightblood has devolved somewhat to match and we, the reader, get shorter, less involved narrative from Nightblood.  I imagine that when we have an independent Szeth (something we haven't ever seen) joined up with Kaladin, Nightblood might just perk up and be more like its old pre-Rosharian self.  Especially is Kaladin is involved with the conversations like Vivienna was for the last half of Warbreaker.  

9 hours ago, alder24 said:

I am glad that I can help. Feel free to ask about anything.

Enlightening... Am I Sja-anat now?  

But you still make my head hurt.   You answered that question like a research paper!  Really well said.

I am curious about the Glys thing tho.  Sanderson said in one of the quotes "not going to have a third one in them" referencing metals in shardblades. But that was 2018 before we had too much of a concept Glys and Glys like phenomena.  That's a big rabbit hole of guessing that I'm not jumping down.

On 5/6/2023 at 2:05 PM, Breeze said:

If you don’t know, a katek is a type of poem that is the same backwards and forwards. (With changed verb forms) I asked Ai to write one about kaladin, and it gave me these two:

Storms within, a broken soul fights Fights soul, broken, within storms

Radiant hope shines through darkest nights Nights darkest through shines hope radiant

It seems that your AI is singer; it wrote them both in the singer form. (or at least that's how I interpreted the different kateks)

Good fun with the AI poems tho!  Thanks for sharing 

On 5/6/2023 at 1:22 PM, Greywatch said:

I 100% believe it's possible and also I'm rooting for it. Brandon actually lost me, a bit, in RoW with just how terrible Moash was, it was almost unbelievable in a literal "oh, I don't know if I believe you, Brandon". Moash in RoW is so clearly not fully on board with what he's doing, he's fully in denial. Big difference. Can't wait to see how his arc shakes out, it's one of the things I'm MOST curious about for SA5.

I just finished rereading RoW again and was looking at Moash carefully.  My very solid "no" vote above is wavering (just a little).  I notice a trend in Moash now that I hadn't before.  I see Moash and his Odium addiction much like Teft and his moss addiction.  I still hold true to my other posts earlier too... but I think that the Odium addiction is very much culpable for a good portion of what Moash does in RoW.  And I think that leaves some wiggle room for a redemption arc.   

Now, me personally, I can't think of a way out of it for him.  Lucky for everyone that Sanderson is way freakin smarter than I am.

Perfect!  And that sir, is why I am far from the expert.  Pretty much wraps it up as far as I'm concerned!  Nice little bow and everything.

On 5/7/2023 at 10:23 AM, Argenti said:

But they are also Spren, who are sentient pieces of investiture given shape; they might not have names, or their true names might be unknowable to mortal ears.

I haven't seen any sapient spren who did not have a name.  So it would be out of character for then to not have names.  Stormfather answers to Dalinar when he curses... I really think they are their names.  Even if the name "Sibling" could leave more to be desired. :/

On 5/7/2023 at 2:46 PM, Treamayne said:

Navani first "hears" the tones by vibration transference (the same reason you can "hear" your stomach growl - which is an intestinal vibration transferred to the cochlear bones through your skeleton), first by touching Raboniel as she hums the tones, then by touching spheres with the appropriate Light. Eventually, she develops a Connection to the Light and tones, which culminate in actually hearing the tones when bonding the Sibling - which is why I said above that hearing Tones is SR via Connection - not based on an organ hearing a PR noise. 

 

That makes a whole lot of sense.  Especially since investiture comes from the SR so the different rhythms/tones would then be a spiritual connection.   Here's my weird tangent thought on this... Have we "heard" investiture on in any other system?   I can't think of one, but I'm no expert.  That begs the question of "why not?"   Does Roshar itself do something that brings the tones out?   Why are there pure tones of Roshar but none of Scandrial or Nalthis or wherever?   or are there but no one (that has spoken up in a book yet) can "hear" them?       Or do you think we've stayed too far off topic... probably but whatever.

14 hours ago, alder24 said:

Honorblades disappear with Heralds death or when they return to Braize. I think Honorblades were not only made to aid them in fights during First Desolation, but also for Heralds to fight with them in Braize. Shardblades can cut sprens (OB, Kholinar palace, Syl cut corrupted painspren), and spren can be hurt in CR (Notum, RoW). Also Vorin religion teaches about eternal fight to reclaim the Tranquiline Halls, I think there might me a grain of truth in that story - Heralds were meant to fight for eternity with Fused cognitive form and Honorblades were made for this. Only Heralds would have weapons on Braize, Fused and Voidspren would not have anything like that, nor access to their surges - they were binded in their cognitive form in CR and the planet itself is a barren wasteland with no life on it - which means no weapons to manifest in CR. Honorblades would have given Heralds a significant edge in fighting. But as it was proven, 10 people can’t fight a mob forever.

All this.  And most likely the Honorblades were bestowed before the Oathpact.   My reasoning here is that the Heralds claim that they were not Radiant (and by the I make the presumption that they never bonded spren, Nale's future notwithstanding) but yet Ishar could make the Oathpact.  That leads me to think that the Heralds were granted Honorblades to fight the OG war against the singers.  Which then makes me wonder if perhaps more people had Honorblades but they were mortal and their blades disappeared after their deaths.... random brain wandering, sorry.

I just finished up RoW again and throughout the story there are tangent references to Ashyn and the "Gods" etc etc.  But they are all based on perception.  There's no real solid statement in there (at least that I saw) that wasn't biased or at least very potentially biased in such a way that we could find the real truth.   Even when Odium claims to be the human's god on Ashyn... there is nothing to say that our above general consensus of Odium providing power but not being worshipped isn't the case.  RoW has so much cosmere stuff floating around in it.  It's a lot to sort through.

I am going to guess that the bias is "Adhesion is not a true surge" and that it actually is a true surge regardless of Honor or not.  Which makes a lot of sense actually.

Argent's comment at the end "I mean, as much as these things make sense, yes."  Is hilarious btw.

Seems like the consensus is that Honor was not there on Ashyn.   Also seems like when people imply as such in WoB he shuts that down (obliquely) pretty well.   My remaining question/concern about this is.... where did the investiture come from on Ashyn?  

Ok, so I found another anomaly dealing with this subject at hand.  First, just as an appetizer, I want to highlight Raboniel's discussion about surges with Venli.  She highlights that all surges are functional from Honor and Cultivation and that the human's 10th surge isn't a true surge because that is only of Honor.

Main Course: "Radiants of the high oaths might be able to access their powers. And Honor’s Truest Surge, the Surge of Binding and Oaths, could still work." RoW pg 507.  This is Sibling talking to Navani just after the tower first gets corrupted.  If this surge is Honor and Honor's alone according to two separate and ancient sources...  Wouldn't it seem like Honor was involved with Ishar's initial Bondsmith powers on Ashyn.  I'm not an expert, but I believe that to make connections a Bondsmith has to use Adhesion and if Adhesion is only of Honor... then Honor was involved with humans on Ashyn.   That's my logic train.  

My head hurts again ~

48 minutes ago, alder24 said:

I personally believe that Lift's wish was against Cultivation's intent, as Cultivation is all about changing and growing, and because of that She didn't know how to do that.

OMG!  I can't believe I never made that connection before.  It's so obvious, duh. 

And yeah, I agree that Lift is special and being groomed for something more.  Maybe like you say Cultivation doesn't want the burden of the Shard anymore and wants to pass it off to someone.  

I have done this with the Shards on my own quite a bit... just thinking and debating with myself what the actual full meaning / intent of each shard is.  The ones we know, we can handle pretty well based on the name and their actions.  What I have also been doing is looking up their definition online (nerdy, I know) and then also using a thesaurus to look at their synonyms and antonyms.  Sanderson has a specific idea for each Shard... and has given us clues with the name but also a lot of leeway with how the Shard actually interacts.

Recently I have been trying to group Shards together in push/pull and physical/mental/temporal/enhancement groupings like the metals on Scandrial.  In doing so all I have really accomplished is coming up with guesses for the missing two Shards.  I'll share for kicks and giggles.   The first, as has been theorized already online, I'm guessing is Prudence (push/pull with Valor in my little chart).  Some people have said wisdom, but I like the Prudence better. The other I came up with winds up being the push/pull of Cultivation which made me guess at some variation of Ignorance or Neglect.

Seriously though, when I'm deep in thought about these things, the thesaurus really helps me expand on the nuances of the words more than the actual definition.

19 hours ago, alder24 said:

Yes, a Radiant can bond several spren. This only depends on Radiant's worthiness and spren willingness to share a bond.

I see this happening with Shallan more than anyone.   Maybe Pattern and Testament will get married! "No Mating!"

The way I see it with Lift is she just has a non-standard way of procuring investiture.   Her method is more like an allomancer than a radiant.  Maybe that's the norm for lifelight though.  

2 hours ago, Jn819 said:

Actually, I think Dalinar Connected to Nohadon through the Spiritual Realm. The SR is timeless, and people's Spiritual aspect goes on to "the beyond" after physical aspect is destroyed and cognitive aspect fades. In other words, that's just how Nohadon looks and acts in the afterlife, and Dalinar Connected to him in his afterlife.

I like this theory too!!!   Though thinking about Kelsier watching people leaving in the CR and comments made by Preservation about not knowing where they go after... makes me think that the spiritual realm connection isn't the case.  But I still don't rule it out.  That's just my "hmmmm, maybe not" possible reasoning.  Like you say, there's no time there.  Which, again, makes my head hurt.   

4 hours ago, JohnnyKaizen said:

I just finished a re-read of RoW, and I believe there's more to it. There is a common theme between Moash and Kaladin, and Dalinar and Taravangian. 

They both go about life in diametrically opposite ways. And for some reason, there is a spoken need (By Moash and by Dalinar) to prove to the other person that their way of doing things is the right way. For Moash, I think he wants to justify his desire for ever-expanding revenge, while claiming the moral high ground. Kaladin faced the same traumas that Moash did, but he choose the path of Honor while Moash has only ever wanted revenge. He feels a need to make Kaladin admit that he was right in his choice to betray. That it was the only path.

Dalinar feels a deep need to prove to Taravangian that his way of saving Roshar is the better way. Though with them, I'm not particularly looking forward to how that plays out.

I like your analogy between the two situations.  They're not identical in any way, but definitely a good connection.  

1 hour ago, Letryx13 said:

Hard agree on the Moash analysis.  People who know they're in the wrong often try to rationalize their behavior.  

I also agree.   Earlier I wrote "Just because" and by this I meant before Odium and them had not yet decided to attack Kaladin's mental state as a weapon to keep him out of the fight.  Yes, Moash wants Kaladin to relent and accept Odium's "peace" to help justify his actions (and I think he wanted a friend).  And yet he intentionally makes Kaladin's pain worse trying to get him there.  Moash has some crazy going on upstairs.  Not Shallan crazy, but "railroad tracks don't go anywhere" crazy.  You know, I have called him a sociopath a lot (and I think he is) but he's also a narcissist.   Everything right/wrong/in between is 100% from Moash's perspective.  Every other perspective has no meaning to him.

9 hours ago, Stockman said:

Hello friends!

I am starting to get real convinced of a few of my new theories, and was hoping for some feedback. That's half the fun sometimes . Here they are!!

I love your thinking.  I think, like @alder24 says above that your BAM theory is fun but I don't buy it.  I'm down with your Cultivation/dream theory.  That's a distinct possibility.  So is Nohadan having had a Dawnshard.   Hopefully we will find out the real answer soon (like book 5 not book 9).   I like your thinking about Lift, I just don't agree.  She's an Edgedancer. Just an extra weird one.  I mean, I guess maybe she could be somehow Cultivation (aka nightwatcher's) Bondsmith and made a connection to her Cultivation Spren so that she looks like a Edgedancer... but I personally don't think so.  Could be, tho.  Who knows.   

As for BAM... I was thinking that he could be the Herald that Taln took over for.  Taln wasn't supposed to be a Herald so there's some sort of story behind that.  Maybe BAM defected to the Singer side during the OG desolation which left an opening that Taln took.  I'm not sure what the process would be for him to become unmade, but Odium obviously was well versed in that since he did it to 9 different beings/entities/things....