Green chicken

According to several WOBs skaze are splinters of Dominion: Argent (paraphrased) Ashe says to Sarene "your god". Do seons (and skaze) have a religion/god? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) They have an inkling of the nature of their original Shards, which they would consider their gods. Argent (paraphrased) Kind of like a first, a prime, a parent? Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased) Yes. They kind of know what happened that created them, and they also know this is not the god being worshiped (by Sarene), so... Steelheart Chicago signing (Oct. 5, 2013) mathota123 Is the creation of skaze end-negative? Brandon Sanderson So, you're not quite using the term right. The terms "end-negative" and "end-positive" refer to a specific system--in most cases, we're talking about the individual(s) using the magic. Do you draw more magic out, or is it powered by your own native Investiture? Awakening is what we call end-neutral, despite the fact that (obviously) the Breaths came from someone else in the first place. That's not the point in contention here--do the same number of Breaths (the same amount of Investiture) continue to exist in the system as you're manipulating the magic. In something like AonDor, you are drawing out much more power than you put in--end-positive. That power is put to work doing something, such as healing a body, or creating a blast of power. The skaze, like the seons, were created when a Shard was Splintered. The terminology doesn't quite work there, at least not in the way that scholars in the cosmere would use it. The question from the physicist in this thread about where Investiture goes, and what it means for a Shard to have access to certain amounts of power, is related to all of this. I'm hoping to be able to find some time to craft a response there, as there are some fundamental understandings of the magic that are relevant to the discussion that I should point out. Stormlight Three Update #5 (Nov. 21, 2016) Questioner [Does] the expansion of Jaddeth’s empire have more to do with greed and hunger for power, or the innate nature of Dominion? Brandon Sanderson Both. I would say both. The innate nature of Dominion probably caused the greed and hunger for power. Questioner What would you say percentage-wise? Brandon Sanderson Well, one caused the other. It definitely started with Dominion. The Skaze are pretty thirsty for power. Shadows of Self Chicago signing (Oct. 12, 2015) Chaos (paraphrased) This is other information we overheard while we were there. Skaze are the evil seons, and are related to Skai. Seons are related to the AonDor and thus Aona. Ancient 17S Q&A (May 1, 2010)

@Bejardin1250: "and frankly a classic duel just makes no sense to happen" @Frustration: "It's what we've been building towards since WoK, and personally something I really want to see, the amount of fighting in SA is crimminally low." That's quite contradictory.

@Frustration doesn't believe in the loophole theory. My point was that Taravangian is looking for a loophole.

It supports the loophole theory, because it implies that Taravangian doesn't like the deal that Rayse and Dalinar made. Which means that Taravangian has the motivation for a loophole.

With Ishar.

What prevented Rayse from seeing the confrontation?

Rayse couldn't see Dalinars meeting with Ishar because of Renarin. The duel was only a minor part of the climax for OB, and it was only half of the climax for Wok and Wor. That heavily implies that his champion, and strategy for the contest are going to be different. Not only that, he also believes that Rayse's mistake was accepting the contest.

The contest(with out a loophole) will just be two people trying to kill each other. That implies that Taravangian's plans are different, and the missed possibilities part means that taravangians short term plans are going to be different since his foresight is currently incapable of seeing to far into the future. Renarin and Rlain would be messing with his shardic sight.

There will still be a contest, Taravangian would just try to make it void. That's Brandon's style, his books are relatively slow until the climax.

In chapter 114 Taravangain literally realizes that Rayse's plans are flawed, and that he missed certain possibilities. It would be impossible to determine the winner in that case, which would the contract void.

First of all, Vin was built up as the hero of ages in Mistborn, even though she wasn't the hero of ages. Second off all, 3 out of the 4 SA books had fight scenes as the climax.

Odium could send a suicide bomber, who would kill both Dalinar and themselves. It is almost certain that there will be a loophole, Brandon threw wrote the epilogue to build up Taravangian as a dangerous foe, it would make no sense for Brandon to undermine the expectations that he built up in the epilogue. Rayse was a terrible villains in row, due to his incompetence. In Oathbringer his strategy for the battle of the thaylen field was a good plan, the only reason he lost was because he underestimated Dalinar. Brandon has built up Taravangian as a competent villain, the contract is so vague that it is full of potential loopholes, it would make no sense for such a competent villain to miss the loopholes.

Plenty of people can defeat Dalinar in a fight, here are just some examples: Heralds Windrunners above the 2nd ideal Skybreakers above the 2nd ideal Elsecallers who are proficient at soulcasting Lightweavers who are proficient at soulcasting and or lighweaving Truthwatchers who are proficient at lighweaving Dustbringers who are proficient at division Radiants above the 4th ideal Shards Coinshots Mistborn any twin born who has steel Steel compunders Neturo-son-Vallano with the bondsmith honorblade Ishar with the bondsmith honorblade Moash Szeth-son-Neturo Fullborn The 5 scholars excluding sahashara Elatrians Feruchemists Kandra with one spike Sleepless anyone bonded to yelig-nar who can control the power Warform singers Anyone in shardlate While Dalinar is dangerous, he isn't immortal. As a fused he shouldn't be too difficult to kill with anti voidlight. The coalition already has raysium dangers.

"But as for Ishi’Elin, his was the part most important at their inception; he readily understood the implications of Surges being granted to men, and caused organization to be thrust upon them; as having too great power, he let it be known that he would destroy each and every one, unless they agreed to be bound by precepts and laws." - Words of Radiance chapter 42 epigraphs.

Ishar created the 5 ideals for each order, the ideals were "filled out" as a natural consequence of the bond.

Taln believes the radiants to be "ishar's knights". Not only that, surgebinders predate the orders. The ideals were created by Ishar, however they were a natural outgrowth of the spren.

A lot of things are possible, for example it's possible that Taravangians loophole is to bond with Dalinar, and release himself from Roshar. The problem with baseless speculation is that it can get ridiculous very quickly. I already provided an example on what baseless speculation could lead to. When ever you are having a logical discussion, speculation must be supported by a reasonable amount of evidence. If we knew the 5th ideal for multiple orders, and all of them negated the 4 previous ideals, then it would be safe to say that the 5th ideal negates the the first 4. One data point is nowhere near enough to to extrapolate from. That's not the only reason why the 5th Bondsmith ideal probably doesn't negate the 4 previous ideals. The 5 ideals have to make thematic sense. For example, the reason that the 5th ideal negates the previous 4 ideals for a Skybreaker, is that the theme of the Skybreaker ideals is following codes to insure that you do the right thing. Once a Skybreaker reaches the 5th ideal, they can change their code, because they understand codes well enough. Thematically it would make zero sense for the 5th Edgedancer ideal, to allow the Edgedancer to forget those who have been forgotten. Same thing with the Bondsmiths, how would it make thematic sense for the 5th Bondsmith ideal to allow them to divide people? It's literally the antithesis of the entire order.

here is the wob: Aradanftw If you were to use Hemalurgy on a Surgebinder, would it steal the Surge or the actual spren bond? Brandon Sanderson It's going to steal the spren bond, but you've got to remember the spren has power over that bond. So what you're doing is (1) incredibly evil, even more evil, but (2) you may not end up with what you want, because that spren has free will in most cases. You may go through all this trouble and then they may break the bond, and you would be left without it. So you would need something else to force them to be unable to break the bond, which would be even more evil, but it is possible in Hemalurgy. Read the last sentence, the wob states that is possible to prevent the spren from breaking the bond. The wob doesn't state that the radiant doesn't have to follow oaths. The skybreaker 4th Ideal is about fulfilling quest, the windrunner 4th ideal is completely different, therefore the different orders have relatively difrent ideals.

Show me where in the wob it said that hemalurgy allows a radiant to break oaths, without breaking the bond.

Why does it matter? Everyone knows what I mean, when I say that breaking oaths kills spren.

There is no evidence to suggest that the 5th ideal for skybreakers, has the same effects as the 5th bondsmith ideal.

Different orders have different oaths. Hemalurgy can only prevent the spren from breaking the bond, if the radiant breaks their oaths, then they are the ones breaking the bond. This is why breaking oaths broke pre recreance bonds.

First of all that is baseless speculation. Second of all, Dalinar is two whole oaths from the 5th ideal. Finally, the ideals are artificial, they were put in place by Ishar. This means that Ishar would never give such a dangerous order the ability to get away with practically anything.

Did you even read my post? I'm not talking about the Stormfather breaking the bond, I'm talking about the fact that if Dalinar breaks his ideals, he kills the Stromfather.