seriodor

10 hours ago, Aspiring Writer said:

The Lord Ruler can still try and crush the thunderclast with his weight, and I think it's fine to assume he brought of source of metal to manipulate like cins if he wants to push or pull.

We have no idea if Ishar can counter Atium (If you have a WoB, please share) and that still doesn't change that he can kill Ishar in a split second. As for soulcasting, I have a made a thread where it's clear that TLR bands would be filled to the brim and very hard to soulcast in any fastidious matter. As for TLR himself, BS has said it's hard to soulcast people because they are more invested, and TLR is a sliver, so he is VERY invested to the point of resisting the pull of the beyond for a very long time, so I don't know how much of an option that would be for them.

@seriodor Okay, fullborn and mistborn aren't the same thing, please clarify which you're talking about, because Fullborn would be a storming Lord Ruler, which as have discussed would wreck radiant and possibly even a herald.

I meant a Fullborn. I know the topic was Mistborn V. Radiant, but I think that's pretty pointless because a Radiant will definitely win in most situations. I think a Fullborn would of course win with sufficient preparation, but it's not a guaranteed thing. I think the outcome would depend on a ton of variables, the main one being availability of investiture. 

44 minutes ago, nerpspren said:

When Hoid meets Odium in the epilogue, he says that he put his name in the contract he drafted for Dalinar. Do you think Hoid's original name is hidden somewhere in the text?

No, Hoid specifically mentioned himself by name when he wrote it. There's a scene where Jasnah is concerned that Odium will strike at him when he's forced to set a time for their contest of champions, so he tells her he will add a part that protects him from that.

Is Hoid aware that you can combine investiture? Has he done it before? (probably RAFO)

Could a Spren pulled into the physical by Ishar have a Nahel bond with another Spren?

Are the Herald killing daggers using Feruchemy?

Is the Microkinesis he mentions in the Ars Arcanum the atom splitting version he originally wrote into Dragonsteel, or is it a weaker version of that?

18 hours ago, Kinolee said:

Yes I think you are correct here, and I should have been more clear in my OP.  I don't think the nicrosil has anything to do with the investiture-drawing function of the dagger.  Rather, I believe its entire purpose is to create a fabrial that perfectly stores investiture that has already been drawn out by raysium.  It's a two-part system.  The raysium conducts the investiture and the ruby/nicrosil fabrial at the base stores that investiture.  The raysium vein can then be removed and reversed such that the investiture is conducted either to or from the gemstone storage -- likely via the use of magnetism/poliarity.  There are so many mentions of polarity in the book, and specifically there is one mention that Raboniel knows a way to polarize otherwise non-magnetic metals...

I don't think the raysium vein is a composite or an alloy or anything like that.  I just think it is polarized such that the investiture flows from the negative end to the positive end, like an electromagnet -- except more like an investituremagnet in this case.  That's why flipping the vein changes the flow of investiture to or from the gemstone.  The part where the nicrosil surely comes in is in the storage, not the flow.

I don't think it's meant for storage. Burning Nicrosil allows an Alloymancer to draw all the investiture from someone they touch. I think the Nicrosil draws the investiture out, into the Raysium, which rapidly conducts all of the investiture to/from the stabee.

A thought I just had, in the preview for the Sixth of Dusk sequel:

24 minutes ago, bloodlust said:

Some part of my brain is telling me that there is a series/book on this sort of "magic" but I cant see to think of it. 

I was partially thinking of a Practical Guide to Evil when I was picturing the setting. The Samurai in Stray Cat Strut gain their abilities that way. I feel like I've read other stories with something like that in them.

3 minutes ago, Harrycrapper said:

I've seen people saying Cultivation is a dragon. I'm guessing I was just shell-shocked from some other crazy thing happening in the book, but where did we learn that fact?

It's a combination of things, Hoid said there was only one person on Roshar as old as he is in a previous book, which one would assume is Cultivation because they're both pre-shattering beings. He also said that there's one dragon on Roshar. Brandon said that he was talking about the same person each time. Also during Todium's PoV he noted that she was hiding a true form.

Something I haven't really seen anyone talk about: Was Tanavast a dragon? If Cultivation is a dragon then it would make sense that he was one too, but we haven't heard anything about that. Though If he was just a human that married a dragon then he must have been one impressive specimen.

The best alternate theory I've heard is that Tanavast was a title. Like head of House Avast, or The Avast, or maybe even consort to Avast. Then either it was added to her name when she married into his house, or she was already named that and he went by his title.

1 hour ago, eissturm said:

Chicken, Wine, hound, and stormlight?  What do these all have in common?  Rosharan's have no idea what these thing's aren't.

Rhythm of War showed frequently how bad people are at identifying different types of Light, something we hadn't really gotten a good idea of before hand.  It seems to me like it might be possible that we're being set up for a Honorlight != pure Stormlight, and that Tanavast, in 'uplifting' the Stormfather, disrupted the 'alignment' of the Highstorm's Investiture and locking it to those Connected to Honor.

And this is what I think finally drove Cultivation to kill him.

WoB says Cultivation fought Odium alongside Honor.

1 hour ago, Kinolee said:

I've been having lots of fun translating Navani's notebook recently.  Most of it is just flavor, but I do think I have found at least one important thing hidden here.  Check out this page about Raboniel's Soul-Harvesting Dagger...

  Hide contents

I suspect this "silver-nickel" alloy is actually nicrosil, which is really a chromium-nickel alloy, and that Raboniel is lying here to throw Navani off the trail.  She says on this very page that Navani is right not to trust her.  Nicrosil has the feruchemical property of storing investiture.  I find it hard to believe that the housing of the gemstone is unrelated to the function of the dagger (all fabrials are housed in a meaningful metal cage, afterall).  So what are the chances that this is not nicrosil?

So I agree with you, but when I said this in another thread the argument they used was that Raboniel said the metal was just decorative, and that it doesn't affect the functionality. I think she was either lying about that, or she just doesn't understand the purpose of Nicrosil. It makes sense that the Nicrosil would be used to draw out the investiture, and the Raysium conducts it to the gem.

2 hours ago, CogitoErgoArclo said:

Totally true. And definitely why it and other WoBs are unraveling my brain a bit. 
But my instinct here is that he’s deliberately talking around it.
Most likely saving it for the small reveals that we’re getting in RoW: i.e. “Ralkalest”, fabrial mechanics. 
And I’m speculating: bigger reveals later where we’ll see Ralkalest/aluminum has been an intrinsic part of the economy of the cognitive realm and eventually the entire (spacefaring) cosmere. 
 

Chapter 48 of Words of Radiance, Shallan tries to sell her necklace that is made of Aluminum to a store clerk and he tells her it isn't worth anything because it can only be made through Soulcasting. Idk if Brandon was saying not to trust that the necklace is Aluminum,  because it pretty clearly is,  or if he meant don't take the word of some store clerk. Either way, the dude thinks it's aluminum and he says that you can bring it into existence by soulcasting. It sounds like Brandon just meant that it wasn't exclusive to soulcasting.

1 hour ago, CogitoErgoArclo said:

All true, and I’ll concede you may be entirely right. But: My biggest issue is it seems strange to have a naturally occurring metal that interferes with investiture, on a planet where the entire ecology is dependent on investiture. 

 My thought is Garnets on Roshar may not be true garnets as we would know them, but are being named for their hue so we recognize them. 

As for the amount of Ralkalest at Urithiru: 

1. The Ancient Radiants and the Fused were definitely Cosmere aware and there is no way someone wasn’t trading in Shadesmar during the Heraldic epochs. 
The Ire, the Nalthian merchants, the Ghostbloods, and Raboniel’s knowledge of Taldain’s sands prove this, at least in my mind. 
2. ( just thought of this) All or much of that ralkalest is now missing from the base of Urithiru, and may be the source of most of what Artifabrians are using currently. Although I think the Fused are definitely getting it through Shadesmar. 

You’re right about aluminum not being “rare” on earth. In the sense that the actual mineral is abundant, but the technical knowledge of the extraction is pretty rare, I would posit. 

Edit: Just to clarify: I agree completely with your first post, but thought to expand on it a bit. 

The word “ralkalest” most likely originated on Sel,

the Ire are a group of invested “merchants” that trade in fabrials and investiture. And they definitely come from Sel. 
 

The Iriali are confirmed immigrants from another world, who are cosmere aware, and also use the term ralkalest. 

Most likely, the Ire have been calling it ralkalest as they’ve been trading through the cognitive realm. And it has become the common term used in the worldhopping economy. 

I guess the Iriali could have come from Sel sometime after all the other humans came from Ashyn. Them being linked makes sense to me. I still think Aluminum occurs naturally on Roshar. I'd say it doesn't effect the Invested life because like here, you can't just mine it naturally, it's bound to other elements as aluminum oxide. Being mixed with something seems to have a big impact on the Spiritual nature of a material. Bronze is just tin and copper yet it acts like it's own thing.

22 minutes ago, CogitoErgoArclo said:

Navani definitely does not mention where it comes from, and I think that deliberate on Brandon’s part, but the first reference to Aluminum that I can remember on Roshar is when Hoid brings Azure sheets of it in Kholinar. It’s possible it’s naturally occurring, just very rare(like on earth) but it’s also possible they could be getting their supply from offworld (the Ire, or the Ghostbloods- possibly how they fund themselves), and no one has really thought to ask where it comes from(also like on earth). I think this is why Mraize called it an advance on future payments, he’s promising her a steady supply of aluminum, which Scadrial has an abundance of. 

Also, They might be able to replicate what Hoid had brought them with soulcasting, although that seems unlikely/impossible. 

As for the sand: that was definitely my first thought, but sand doesn’t “clink” in a bag. Unless that is a property of invested sand that I’m missing. 

Garnet is one of the Ten Polestones and it contains Aluminum, so it is present. Or at least it is in red Garnets, which I assume is what they mean, because it's associated with the essence of Blood. The ancient Radiants lined the walls of the bottom tunnels of Urithiru in Aluminum. That's a lot of Aluminum. I doubt they were importing that much metal from offworld when Aluminum is probably very abundant in the environment. Also Aluminum isn't rare on earth, it's the most abundant metal in the Earth's crust, it just has to be extracted from other stuff first.

3 minutes ago, Ookla the Unnamable said:

Not a Fullborn, no. They could beat just about anyone who wasn't a shard. A Mistborn against a Radiant with infinite metals/stormlight, would lose for certain without Atium, and almost certainly lose with it. Hard to beat someone who won't stop regenerating. equal amounts of metals/stormlight, Radiant wins without Atium, it's a toss up if the Mistborn has a little Atium, and the Mistborn almost always wins with a lot of it.

Hmm I still think a full Mistborn would have a pretty good chance in those situations. In the infinite scenario they could use the Atium to make a plan to contain the Radiant rather than kill them. And Nicrosil seems like it's made for fighting Radiants. I think even without Atium a Mistborn with a plan could do pretty well.

4 minutes ago, CogitoErgoArclo said:

Please correct me if this has been debunked, but my reading of this was ralkalest/aluminum is not naturally occurring on Roshar.
And therefore must come to the planet via trade through the cognitive realm.
The Ire are a group of “merchants” in the cognitive realm, specifically linked to Sel, and seem to be more Cosmere aware than most. I don’t think it’s a huge stretch to say the Iriali are somehow linked to the Ire, and that they have been spreading knowledge of the Cosmere, ralkalest, and possibly the metal itself for a very long time. 
The clinking bag Mraize gives Raboniel seems to me to be direct evidence of this, as I assume it’s filled with aluminum but could also be a god metal. 

 

Aluminum is available on Roshar, they use it in the fabrials that let Birdge Four fly. It's also used in Rysn's hovering wheelchair, and Kaladins flying glove. Navani never says where they source all that aluminum from as far as I can recall, but I feel like it would have been mentioned if they were importing it from offworld. The bag Mraize gave Raboniel had invested sand from Taldain in it.

3 hours ago, Nesh said:

I'm not sold on Odium getting off Roshar at the end of book 5.  Unless Brandon wants to make Cultivation the Big Bad in the back half.  Really Autonomy is the only one that makes sense.

Pretty much the only thing that makes me doubt the Trell = Autonomy theory is that it makes so much sense. Surely Brandon wouldn't have made it this big mystery if the answer was something you could figure out just by knowing all the available info and having a good think on the matter. I'm pretty sure that's just bias of someone who assumes the book is written for Cosmere superfans though. It's probably meant to be a mystery for people that only follow Mistborn for some reason.

I think it 

On 11/24/2020 at 3:38 PM, Golstar said:

Well, there certainly is a lot of talk about how he (especially pre-pruning) was a larger than life presence. I think Eshonai describes him as almost different species than other humans or "how a human in warform would look" (from memory).

But Kaladin especially seems to have an almost supernatural effect on those around him. Back with Bridge Four he would deflect arrows meant for others subconsciously - but perhaps his bond with his "people" goes further than that? Even Elhokar seems mesmerized by him, and almost immediately wants him as a bodyguard. Kaladin is a brooding, morose man with severe depression and anxiety issues. While great leaders with troublesome minds are not unheard of - he seems to project a different persona than his own. He even thinks about it relatively often - that he feels a disconnect from he projects and his actual self. I realize that his depression and anxiety play a part in this - but I actually think he is partially right.

I almost expect him to just come back if he dies, similar to the fused or the heralds. Incidentally the fused seem to have a similar effect on the singers, and the Pursuer seems pretty focused on his reputation. Maybe his reputation is what gives him his powers? El had his titles stripped as punishment. The heralds (except Ishar) get very upset when people worship them and give them titles. Ishar being venerated as the Almighty might be what allows him to surgebind without having an Honorblade or a spren. I could be reaching, but titles/reputation/perception having power would seem to fit Odium and Honor both, and might be a magic system created by their interactions. 

I like this explanation. It fits really well with all the strange stuff about Kaladin. The only part that doesn't seem to fit with this is how he used super speed to kill Helaran, because that was before people knew him. 

Is the fight a Fullborn with unlimited metal VS a Radiant with unlimited Stormlight? I think in that situation a Fullborn wins every time. If they both had just an equal amount of fuel available, but the Fullborn still had an equal amount of each metal, I'd still say the Fullborn. If you take into account the rarity of each of their sources of power, then I'd say the Radiant wins, because a lot of the Alloymancy stuff would require a supply line to smelters and access to stuff that's hard to get ahold of. Radiants just need to have spheres. We haven't seen the capabilities of a Fifth Ideal Radiant though, so maybe they'd do better.

7 minutes ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I think ‘with’ means ‘alongside’. She’s not trying to unite the Shards; she wants to create a union between the Vessels. Odium alongside Honor, held together by mutual respect.

I don't think that's the case. Lot's of people for some reason want a Taravangian redemption arc or something, but he's not a good person. He's a narcissist that thinks he's the one that should be saving everyone, no matter what it costs. That's like every movie bad guy ever. Maybe he'll get to do a redemption sacrifice at the end, but I don't think he's the kind of person that ends up admitting he was wrong and working with everyone else in the end.

25 minutes ago, Subvisual Haze said:

The other possibility behind our very rude Radiant burning WarLight is that Odium and Honor's powers have blended or there is a higher level of cooperation between the two.  I know we've already done the shard mashup in Mistborn, but the phrasing of this line by Cultivation to Todd really caught my eye

 

I choose to believe she's talking about Dalinar and she's making a little private joke at Taravangian's expense. Like he thinks she's saying he can hold the power with honor and is planning to betray her, and she's actually saying this is all part of my plan to bring up Dalinar and you think you're pulling one over on me but actually you're a sacrificial tool.

7 minutes ago, beewall said:

"Is there non-Adonalsium-origin power like Investiture in the cosmere?"

Is there a WoB where he answers this?

2 minutes ago, robardin said:

A highspren with a Nahel bond... With another highspren?

Why not? It should be impossible for even their corpses to exist the way we saw them exist in RoW. Or maybe a physical, living spren can use themselves as their own weapon. The idea jumped out to me because the second alien acts weird in a way that seems similar to a Highspren. Using weirdly formal language and obsessed with law.  Also it never shows it's face, and I don't know if we ever get a description of what Highspren voices sound like, but I kind of imagine it as how Dusk describes the second aliens voice because it would be coming from a person shaped hole in space. Also it's supposed to fly through space without a ship, and Highspren look like they're a human shaped portal to outer space.

3 minutes ago, robardin said:

What, you mean the highspren that is bonded to the Skybreaker in the Shardspacesuit? Could a "really physical" spren still be summoned as a Shardweapon? That's kind of mind-blowing.

I have the icky feeling that what Ishar was after in pulling spren into corporeally physical form is not something that has some kind of beneficial side effect for the spren...

No, I meant a Highspren inside the Shardspacesuit. As in Ishar (or someone else) figured out how to do it without killing them, and this is a living Highspren in a Shardspacesuit. 

It could be that the mechanism Nightblood uses to kill heavily invested beings is just taking Investiture from a source, inverting it into anti-Investiture and then pumping it back into it's target. Killing something with it's own power. That seems like it would be a way for it to kill any invested being.