Odeem

I saw the whole Dream thing mentioned when I was scrolling through, so I know it was already at least brought up, but when I saw this thread my immediate thoughts were:

Odium kills everyone with Moash as his champion, the last fight being between Moash and Kaladin, Moash being the victor. Then, Moash wakes up. We find out that most of the events of the story are just events invented by his mind, because he's severely sick with something he picked up while being a Caravan guard, and he's presently being bled to death in Taravangian's hospital, and he had never even been made a Bridgeman, all the events that had transpired since his grandparents passed were nothing but a fever dream, and Kaladin is the doctor overseeing his 'treatment', he finally fades into death while Taravangian and Gavilar are walking through discussing changes they need to make to more effectively harvest Death Rattles. The end.

I like that idea. I'd agree the people of Roshar's way of referring to everything(Like Magic = Surgebinding, etc) means it might not be an actual spren of any variety. I had not explictly thought of Kandra when I read it but now that it was pointed out I'm inclined to agree - weren't the True Bodies used in Era 1 shaped similarly?

Just to jump in with my thoughts: I assumed during/immediately after reading that the Commands are what Adonalsium used to .. fully tap into his powers. Kind of like Rebar when used in building. You can do a lot with concrete, but you can do MORE with rebar and concrete. I would also assume they were originally part of Adonalsium - being used to Shatter him doesn't necessarily say otherwise; a good in world example is Larkin and Stormlight. All they would have to do to use it against him would be to have some understanding of how to tear the power out of him, and then utilize it. My current guess would be that they were part of him and they managed to suck out the power and use it to supercharge whatever weapon they used on him.
Also, I think the Command is Change as well. Is it wrong that thinking that makes me think of the Obama Change posters, and makes me think of it as the Obama Command? (Yes. I know that's stupid, but I never claimed my brain is anything but stupid)

For some reason the tattoo mention went completely and 100% over my head. I'm assuming part of it is as @Neithan said - I didn't suspect him either because he was in service to Rysn before the trip was even scheduled. All in all, I'm thrilled at what we learned but I want MORE lol. I'm sure everyone is on the same page with that bit though. Just two weeks to go, really need to buy me a copy lol.

Soooo.. was I the only one playing Spot the Aimian and failed horribly for an embarrassingly long amount of time? I didn't make the connection despite the tattoos being referenced until just before Rysn figured it out.

Weren't they referenced before, when Rysn was asking about hers? I thought they'd said there were three, and neither of the others got near the size of Chiri.

On 9/11/2020 at 10:13 AM, Frustration said:

 

 

Here you go

 

That would be why I didn't find it. I only looked up when Tension was used, and then double checked it with Pewter. x-x I'll learn one of these days how to use Arcanum better lol. If he has to be using it as part of his spiritual bit, I'm not sure I'd really equate it with Pewter though.

I'm curious about the Tension and Pewter thing as well... I looked through Arcanum but I couldn't find anything linking the two. All I found was references to it being linked to surface tension, and making things rigid. It makes me think of the Hira Hira no Mi from One Piece(Diamante's Devil Fruit) Which, if it functioned similarly could be pretty interesting.

https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Hira_Hira_no_Mi

@jamesbondsmith

If Moash took it, I don't think he would need to be 'overwhelmed' I think he'd just lean into it.

Dunno if Brandon would go the "overwhelmed" route though, I'm sure its been done several times but ya never know.

On 8/20/2020 at 1:28 PM, Sixth said:

I always loved it from the start, but it is one of those books that you need to just keep on going until you get to the twist. Once you make it there, you're hooked. 

Maybe part of my problem myself is that I already know the twist and general outlines of the plot? Well. Thinking about it that might not help - but that generally does not deter me from a book.

I find myself rolling my eyes every single time I read a Vivenna point of view, and Siri only mildly less so. The only one I really enjoy is Lightsong, but Vasher holds my interest pretty good. I particularly liked the squirrel. That had me laughing more than was probably appropriate lol.

I was going to avoid them but that failed. I managed to wait until we were at 7 before I gave in.
I'd say you can always speed up your read using them - I dunno how quickly you read, but if you could read all of them in let's say a week, you could start reading them then. And then when the book comes out there won't really be a pause(Maybe a few days if you misjudge it, but still) Gets you a jump start on reading the entire thing without any real pause. I'm planning to start an SA reread next month, but I'm thinking it's going to be only rereading chapters I particularly enjoy.(The Battle at the Tower, among others) I already read them once this year, finished that up Mid-June. 

9 hours ago, Bliev said:

I don’t think Odium on Roshar will be the big bad in the back 5. I think it’s more likely that there will be more cosmere-wide implications and players then. 

I think that depends on a lot of factors. He doesn't, for example, have to be on Roshar at the START of the arc for it to be Roshar based.
 

Questioner (paraphrased)

How is Ashyn Earth-like given its orbit? It should be even less habitable than Roshar.

Brandon Sanderson (paraphrased)

The Rosharan system was manufactured for a specific purpose. The position of the moons isn’t stable and even the continent itself might eventually vanish.

Stuttgart signing (May 17, 2019)


Why Roshar was built or what the System's intended purpose could very well draw him back to Roshar if he found out something elsewhere. The purpose behind it could make it very cosmere-wide effects on the outcome as well. I do know it has also been theorized that Odium has some kind of ally in the form of another Shard, which means it could be a pair of Antagonists in the back end, as well. 

I'm hoping that the 'specific purpose' ends up being very important down the line and we find out all about it.

Okay. I looked at the confirmation page when I paid last night - apparently I left it open. There was no shipping information at all listed, but it WAS listed in the e-mail they sent me to confirm. I tried to edit what I got(Since I was a few dollars short on shipping, cuz I got the bumper sticker too.) and it had absolutely nothing listed. I don't know if I was logged in or not when I did the addon initially, since I had to login separately to try to review. I hit cancel on the order page from last night(I have no idea if it worked since it was open so long might have timed out from their end, dunno how that works) and redid the addon(Which was different slightly than the first time) anyone know of a way to confirm that JUST the book was added? I can't seem to find a way to confirm the first one was cancelled, I DID send a question to support but there may be a slow response, due to high volume yadda yadda yadda. I'm a bit impatient since it's only a couple days from going through and I've not money to cover the first one, let alone both.

 

Edit: I have no idea what happened, or why it finally appeared now but not earlier, but the second order linked to my account and I removed it. Woo.

Sooo...
Not sure what forum would be best for this.
I managed to scrounge together enough money to upgrade my backing from a purely digital Dawnshard to the Hardcover.
Does the 15 dollars also include the shipping costs? Or is that added later? I couldn't find an answer for this and I was curious, because if it's added after I may need to scrounge s'more lol.

2 minutes ago, Bliev said:

I love speculations!!

i think Odium’s shard-holder (Rayse) will be killed, and someone will take up Odium’s power. But I think this killing will free Odium as it’s Rayse who is bound, not the power. this frees up Odium to do his damage elsewhere, as he’s (Or she!) is learning how to be a “god”. 
 

I think it’s likely that the person who takes up the power of odium will do so as a sacrifice. Szeth is my guess. He’ll see it as  penance. And will swear to do “good”. But that won’t last.

the back 5 will be our fearless heroes (the ones who survive anyways) figuring out the Cosmere and how to join in to save other humans, all while dealing with the aftermath of war on Roshar.

My only problem with that though, is IF Odium is going to be the Bad in the back half, why would he go back to Roshar? I can't think of a reason really, unless maybe the Dawnshards are Adonalsium related and important and they're stashed there.

I doubt Brandon will really kill him off in the first half, but, since I don't think Cultivation is going to take an ... active ... hand in proceedings, there is always the possibility that they THINK they killed him, and he just hides somewhere for awhile, before coming back and going nuts again. I feel that she is the only one in System(Other than maybe Hoid, but I doubt he would want to investigate just in case. Rayse does dislike him just a bit.) that could definitively tell anyone if he was really gone or not. Dalinar has bits of Honor's power, but we don't really have any clue as to what the entire scope of his abilities are, and neither does he. IF they killed him for real though, I could easily see Moash taking up the Shard and just ... focusing... the Intent toward his own goals. Kind of like the Loup-Garou in Fool Moon. Can't really control it, just has the ability to point it in a direction. He could do quite a bit of damage even with no real knowledge of how the powers function, Rashek is a perfect example of this. That would hinge entirely on Cultivation's reaction if anything did go down like Rayse being killed - I feel she could probably 'prune' anyone taking up the shard with little effort.

Do we know how she feels about someone potentially taking up Honor down the road? I know there's a WOB somewhere where Brandon says it is possible to 'repair' a shard but it is beyond Dalinar's powers to do so... maybe Cultivation could help? That would certainly make forging a new Oathpact easier. Odium would be more likely to enter into something if he actually feared losing in the long run, since I would imagine he'd think "Well, Tanavast had that power for a looong time and I still killed him."

So I had a random thought -

I know we have no real idea how the first half the of the series is going to wrap up, but i seem to recall that it's supposed to wrap up so we have two sets of stories with a time jump in between.

So I had been thinking the only real way to stop the conflict i would think is to kill or reimprison Odium.(And deal with the Singers somehow, probably without genocide or slavery)

Anyway, my brain had popped our the idea that if Odium was killed somehow, that the main characters have no idea how to shatter his power, so someone might pick it up. My only real thought on this was Moash for some reason - he seems pretty full of hate toward the lighteyes in particular. I don't have any evidence I've noticed that would point to this being even the slightest bit probable though. Aside from Moash being a tool and Odium being a tool, lol.

Or, maybe Odium pulls a Crowley, and then comes back for Round 2 in the second half.

Anyway, sorry if I rambled a bit. I've got a bit of insomnia so I've been awake waaaay too long, and all I've been doing is listening to Shardcasts.

Thoughts anyone?

@Rushu42

I know I don't HAVE to finish it. But I'm determined to do it lol. I'm determined to read all the Cosmere books at least once. I like the idea of the magic system and all but I guess just the characters for the most part do not mesh with me. I may end up dropping it and reading a couple of the short stories, or another book entirely and come back.

@Iarwainiel

I'm not the type to just skim something usually, unfortunately. Even on audiobooks I rewind even if I only miss one word lol. I've not read White Sand yet, but I had plans to go through it later this year. I'm hoping I won't have this issue with that one.

 

I'm presently on my ... 8th? (I can't remember) attempt to read Warbreaker.

I like some of the stuff in it, mainly Lightsong, and Vasher(Nightblood too obviously). But I cannot for the life of me seem to get into the book. I don't generally mind it while I'm reading it, but anytime I go to start my brain screams "Nooooo. Do it later." I'm determined to finish it this time, but it's not going well - last reread of Oathbringer(Only my second read of it) took about 2 weeks. I'm on week 6 and I'm only halfway through Warbreaker. X-x I can't quite put my finger on why I can't get into it - but, blegh. I'm half tempted to start taking breaks and just switch to it after each other book I read. I don't think it's that I've heard spoilers about it, since I'd heard spoilers for several other books before reading them(Most notably Bands of Mourning) Anyone have any tips for it? Most of my progress happened when I started listening to the Audiobook. I've been switching back and forth between it and the ebook.

On 6/16/2020 at 4:27 PM, RShara said:

But even the article says that it's unclear, and the following statement is kind of a guess, is how it reads to me. And we see twice that when the Stormfather appears is when a sphere is recharged. How are spheres recharged if that's not a perpendicularity?

It makes as much sense to me that the appearance of the Stormfather isn't fixed and can happen at any point during the storm, making the perpendicularity erratic and hard to find.

Quote

Questioner

I want to know if there was Stormlight before Honor.

Brandon Sanderson

So before Honor arrived there was a proto-version of the storms and a version of Stormlight. Yes.

Questioner

Okay, but it was different?

Brandon Sanderson

It-- Things were different.

Emerald City Comic Con 2018 (March 1, 2018)

I just found this - which as I read it is you could've charged Spheres before Honor ever got to Roshar. As for how? No idea. But a previous WoB had said there'd always been investiture in the Highstorms, but apparently it's 'evolved' over the years.

 

On 5/23/2020 at 10:13 PM, R J said:

The Highstorms are the biggest concentration of Honor's Investiture that we've seen, and that is how Perpendicularities form, when power pools. We've already got confirmation that Highstorms are Realmatically connected across all 3 Realms, again it matches the description of what Perpendicularities are: concentration of Investiture punching a hole through the Realms

I still don't believe it's the perpendicularity and I've been poking around in the WoBs when able to try and figure out one way or the other. I found this though: 

 

Quote

 

Questioner

Has stormwater tasted metallic always?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Even pre-Shattering?

Brandon Sanderson

Even pre-Shattering it would get a metallic taste, that's the crem. So. That is an indication of Investiture and things. But it was there-- it was in place first, before.

Oathbringer Chicago signing (Nov. 21, 2017)

 

 

And then:

Quote

coltonx9

Do the singers predate the highstorms?

Brandon Sanderson

The singers and the highstorms are-- The highstorms-- Let's say no. Trying to decide which one came first. They were created, right? But the highstorms were created as part of Roshar, as well. The highstorms predate humans arriving. Highstorms predate the Shattering of Adonalsium.

Idaho Falls signing (Dec. 29, 2018)

Which just makes me wonder if the Highstorms would've always charged spheres(Since the energy comes through Spiritual Realm through the Stormfather) and if it has always been a link between all three realms. I saw another one I lost on the page somewhere - that says the storms DID evolve after Cultivation and Honor arrived, but if the storm always had a concentration of all three realms, it wouldn't necessarily mean the storm itself is a perpendicularity, despite it being a concentration of power.

5 minutes ago, R J said:

The Perpendicularities on Threnody are unstable and "morbid" (possibly referring to the Shades, perhaps they form when the Shades converge on someone) according to Khriss

Yeah but Honor's was around before he died. Weren't those ones caused by chunks of Ambition getting torn off by Odium?

Edit: "those" being the Threnody ones 

I don't feel that the highstorm can be a perpendicularity simply because they're supposed to be stable junctions between the realms that can be used to travel. As far as I'm aware we have no evidence either way whether it can be housed in a spren or not - the Stormfather providing Stormlight could just stem from his connection to Honor, without it being a perpendicularity in my opinion. He is a Splinter if I'm not mistaken, and did merge with the cognitive shadow of Tanavast, which could concentrate more of his power without being an actual perpendicularity. 

So... I haven't been able to find anything on here or in the wobs about it. But could Honor's Perpendicularity be moving because it was part of the Oathpact? As far as I know we don't know for sure how the Heralds went to and from Braize. Could the perpendicularity be the method they used? If it were true, the Oathpact could theoretically block their access to it when it's on Braize, I would think. And, if it was used in this manner, Honor would theoretically move it back and forth as needed - then he dies and it was anchored at two points in the system and started basically rubberbanding back and forth? It would at least explain why it moves around.

I've no idea if it's even plausible, but I figured I would ask here since y'all know a lot of the ins and outs of the Cosmere.

3 hours ago, Hentient said:

I agree. Id like to see where this goes. Having a herald that wasn't a bad dude from the start, and still isn't, but somewhere in the years of torture by himself he got corrupted without knowing it. Im not sure exactly what Odium could do with a sleeper agent, but regardless, the comeback arch of him having to forgive himself would be great in my opinion. 

IF it happened it could be any number of things that would seem innocuous to anyone around him. He could've been (For lack of a better word I can think of) hypnotized to write down when and where leaders of the forces against Odium will be, and leave it on a windowsill with a particular glyph written on it. If I recall correctly(It's been awhile since my last read; Oathbringer's release) Odium can view Roshar much as the Stormfather can? In the Everstorm, I mean? He'd just see it and send an Agent to pick it up. Much easier for Odium to win if he knows in advance for example, Jasnah, Shallan, and Dalinar are going to be at somewhere a few days in advance and can set up a nice big ambush.

Or end up stabbing Dalinar in the back at some point, literally. I could see something like he walked up, struck, then snapped out of it with an 'Oh, snap. Whaaa?'

I know that I'm probably wrong. But I reaaally like the Theory, and it would spin, I think, into his whole "mentally broken" thing he's working through right now. No matter what Brandon chooses, I'm sure it'll be a nice trip through mayhem and storms.