PiedPiper

10 minutes ago, alder24 said:

There was no planet Scadrial before Ruin and Preservation arrived to the system. They both created it, and created a man in the image of the original man from Yolen. That's why Preservation gave a bit more from himself to every human, because they didn't come from outside, they were all fully created on Scadrial from Ruin and Preservation's powers. Other humans in Cosmere did indeed come from Yolen, as they migrated across the whole Cosmere before the Shattering took place.

Thank you so much! I had no idea.

Question for you all from a friend:

Certain excerpts (quoted below) indicate that Preservation sacrificed a part of his consciousness to give humans on Scadrial sentience. Given that sentient humans existed on Yolen and currently exist on other Comere planets, what do we think this means for the story of human arrival on Scadrial--did something go terribly wrong? Or is it possible I am misinterpreting? I don't think it can be a throwaway line, because the sacrifice is what allowed Ruin to overcome Preservation near the end of era 1. I am happy to provide more excerpts if they could be helpful.

This question comes from a friend who has read only era 1; if possible, try to refrain from era 2 spoilers--thanks so much!

Does anyone here have any idea (or any guess) as to how many people will be attending the Cytoverse release party/Dragonsteel mini-con this year? Or if someone has a rough estimate of the attendance count from the Starsight release party a couple years ago, that'd be a decent guess (though I imagine fewer this time due to COVID).

Just now, Eri said:

Yes, I know. 

What I meant by two Orders is "Ash may be other than Dustbringer if one of the known Radiants joins Dustbringers as their second Order" (Though it's unlikely). Sorry for the confusion.

No worries! Are you thinking we'd have a book 4 situation again, where the flashbacks are Eshonai's and Venli's but it's sorta Navani's book anyway?

Because in that case, it's entirely possible we have a non-Radiant character becoming a Dustbringer

Ash becoming a Dustbringer is the going theory. I could see it; but at the same time, it feels too convenient. Besides, if that were true, the structure of the series would spoil Ash's entire arc. My guess? Our theories are wrong, and there's an option c we're missing.

Also, Ash wouldn't belong to two orders if she became a Dustbringer; the Heralds, except for Nale, never actually joined their orders. They just had a different method of accessing the same powers.

2 hours ago, beejsbj said:

uh they dont really seem offended though...

This is also not the discussion I was hoping to have in this thread.

Does anyone have other thoughts on Roshar and its music and Wit?

55 minutes ago, Stormtide_Leviathan said:

I find it hard to believe that in,,, 10,000 years or however old he is he's never encountered an ace person before. Especially since we know as per WoB that Roshar has a good amount of ace folk. The singers as a race tend to be very asexual when outside of mateform, and because of that their descendants like herdaziens and horneaters have higher ace populations than we do.

Also have we ever gotten any indication that Hoid doesn't date men? Personally, I've always thought of him as pan. He's just got a vibe.

Let's leave it at this: we have different interpretations of the event. You found it offensive, I didn't. That's fine. But I made this thread to talk about Wit's perceptions of Roshar, not Jasnah, so could we please stay on topic?

Sure, he can find some aspects of it unappealing while enjoying other parts of it. But I haven't once seen him describe Roshar and call it anything other than disgusting.

And regarding Jasnah, I interpreted his confusion to be more about the fact that she doesn't want sex than the fact that she is female and doesn't want sex. He probably hasn't encountered someone asexual before (or, at the very least, someone secure enough to express their lack of interest in sex), and would be equally perplexed by it in a man, except he doesn't date men. So he's puzzled not by her lack of sexuality as a woman, but her lack of sexuality as a person.

He's always talking about how desolate (ba dum ch) Roshar is, and that's simply not true. Roshar is a musical world, and you'd think that, as a pretentious artist, he'd be much more appreciative of that fact. You can lean into the artistry or you can complain about the storms -- you can't do both, because the storms bring the music.

Ok so I tried to phrase the title to be as innocuous as possible, but here's my question: why oh why would the Cryptics send Shallan Pattern after she killed Testament? ON PURPOSE, and not with Testament's consent like in the Recreance! And we know that Pattern crossed over with the support of other Cryptics because he talks about how famous he is... so... theories? If the Cryptics were so determined to start bonding humans again, why not choose another to become a Lightweaver? Does this have something to do with the Unmade influencing Shallan's family? Is House Davar that crucial to the fight against Odium?

And also, why did the Cryptics decide to return? Wyndle mentions in Edgedancer that the cultivationspren don't really know what they're doing, that they're returning only because the Honorspren and the Cryptics have already started doing it... but of course we know that the Honorspren who did bond humans were outliers, so from this we can surmise that the Cryptics were the trailblazers here. Why? What do they know? I NEED to see their Shadesmar home!

Here's what I think will happen: Brandon will release the first 9, but never write the tenth -- and when we ask him about it, he'll just shrug and be like, "journey before destination!"

US Hardback, first edition

I don't know if typos in the women's script count -- and maybe it's something they can't fix regardless, since this is an actual image -- but on the second page of Rhythm of War (the in-book text), the word "the" is repeatedly spelled with a "t" symbol followed by an "h" symbol, rather than the "th" symbol.

Is this actually important, or am I being a geek? If it is, though, I can post the translation of the quote and point out where they spelled it wrong.

On 12/3/2020 at 6:55 PM, Invocation said:

Might have been Nazh. He's been in and around the carpentry yards of Sadeas a fair bit, since Rock had to shoo him away in his attempts to mark down the bridgemen brands and stuff. 

True, but I just realized: it it were Nazh, he wouldn't have written it in a Rosharan script -- and besides, there would have been annotations complaining about all the work he had to do procuring the information.

So we have several wobs talking about how a Radiant could bond spren from different orders and get access to different surges -- but could you, for example, bond two cryptics and therefore have super-duper Lightweaver powers?

Who wrote it? The obvious suspect would be Navani, but I've ruled her out; the handwriting is too good (seriously, Navani has terrible handwriting and it's very frustrating), and we have no notebook pages of hers about fabriology anyway.

6 hours ago, Robinski said:

Poetry cage match!!!!!    

It's your poem. Whatever you decide will be the correct choice.

11 hours ago, Mandamon said:

"Yet I yearn not for homely shore" might scan better as "I yearn not for the homely shore"

I disagree, actually. The word choice of "for" and "shore" adds an extra rhyme that doesn't fit in the rhyme scheme, which makes the flow worse in the context of the poem.

A fine Wednesday afternoon for critiquing!

A Mariner's Heart

First: kudos to you for writing a rhyming poem. They're so hard.

I liked the way you personified the sea, but I also wonder if it's something you could explore more? I think it's a very human attribute to ascribe life-like quality to something you love, and it would add to the sense of struggle -- of battle -- that this sailor talks about. (I personally happen to really like figurative devices, so I look for excuses to incorporate them where I can. Maybe that's not your thing.)

Line 23 doesn't make a lot of sense to me: "I'd through swamps and deserts hot" -- it feels as though you've accidentally dropped a verb there.

The first two stanzas have a pattern of repetition in the first line: "The sea, the sea, the helm's a game," and "A storm, a storm, a crashing beast," which creates an expectation that the pattern will be continued. When you don't, the transition into the third stanza feels a little strange, and I couldn't figure out why until I saw the pattern you'd established in the first two.

Jack

I love your imagery. It's very evocative.

You use the word "cold" in both lines 12 and 14, but it doesn't seem like intentional repetition, just clunky.

The line about the Mother's hair (line 20) is a little confusing. I'm not sure what hair is supposed to symbolize in this metaphor.

There's a typo in line 35: I think "until out..." was supposed to be "until our."

Line 40: "urging blood to stiff and silent fingers." Two things: 1) "to" is an awkward preposition here, and 2) I don't understand why the fingers are silent. Is this an underexplained metaphor? The same is true for the "fading toes" a line later

Introducing a rhyme in the very last stanza "air, fair, there" makes it feel a little stilted.

The Editor

I do not know the tune for these lyrics.

And I don't really know how to critique this one because I'm having a hard time figuring out what you're trying to do.

I guess maybe that's something -- it doesn't feel very purposeful, and I get the sense that I'm missing something, some inside joke, as I read it. Maybe that's because I am, and it has something to do with the tune to which these lyrics are set?

@Robinski thank you for your critiques and your compliments -- and I don't mind at all that you're a little late. It seems I've gotten a lot of feedback about inconsistent themes in Seashell Creatures, so I've done a couple new drafts focusing on just one of the emotions, and I think they work better. This is actually about my own grandma and my experiences with her, because my family cut off contact with her (for reasons not related to the dimentia) when I was 7, so I hadn't talked to her in around 8 years when we started calling each other and video chatting again.

The title of Blue and Orange actually came from my original desire to explore blue and orange morality with this book... and then I realized that, by its nature, morality is no longer blue and orange once explored. The title is the last vestige of the original concept. And yes, parts of the world will be unsuspecting of the return. Parts will not be.

Thanks for your line edits. You're right, it makes the prose more purposeful, more active.

And you will see more of it, but right now I'm working on a short story set in the world of the novel. It has nothing to do with the novel's plot or characters, it just helps me explore things in a different way. The story is a little confused right now (not confusing; it's confused. That isn't a typo.) because I keep trying to make it into an adventure when it isn't one, and I don't know where I went wrong but the tone has made this abrupt shift. It's with my alpha reader right now (my dad), so he'll tell me if it feels weird or if it's just my imagination. I'll still submit it when it's ready.

I can't wait to read one of your novels someday, and I hope to read your poetry in the very near future. The way you critique, I have a feeling it'll be great.

Why do I get the sense I need a formal signature after this? Signed,

 - PiedPiper

Hi! Thoughts as I go:

Pg. 1: If you're going for a Gettysburg address-style thing ("by the people, for the people, of the people"), might I suggest: "selected by the people, composed of the people, and acting for the people?" I think the parallel sentence structure might help, and you missed "for the people." Obviously just a suggestion; if it's that way for a reason, I don't want to step on your writing toes.

Pg. 1: Another picky thing, but when you say "scraped the ceiling of the massive building, typically used to store newly arrived imports" you make it sound like they use specifically the ceiling to store newly arrived imports.

Pg. 2: "O lunged through the closed doors, throwing S to the ground. She landed on her sword, gasping at the pain." I'm confused about the mechanics here?

I'm especially confused going forward, because falling on your sword means you got stabbed, no? How is she still an active participant in the battle?

Pg. 6: "Yet, two wars and countless successes had weaved trust." You want to replace "weaved" with "woven" here.

Pg. 6: "The direwolf twitched an..." the pronoun here feels awkward.

Pg. 7: Again, your use of "the direwolf" as a pronoun rubs me wrong somehow... I think it's just that we generally don't refer to someone by their species? If I wrote a line that went, "the human walked down the street," it sounds weird -- not just because it's unspecific, but because it's not conventionally done. I think the non-specificity of referring to humans by their species is what made it a bad idea, and so now species names just make awkward pronouns. I'll stop pointing this out every time I see it, though.

Pg. 8: Am I a terrible person for liking Wa a little bit?

Pg. 9: "There's no way I could find it" should probably be "there's no way I could have found it" -- since he's talking about a mission that's already happened, right?

Pg. 11: So here Wo gets really mad at Wa and assumes that Wa is trying to get them to change sides. This came a little out of the blue, I feel, because there was no tension between the two earlier in the chapter. This scene makes me think that Wo has some kind of distaste for Wa -- but if they do, they paint Wa in at least a neutral light in the previous scene, which doesn't make so much sense to me. Obviously Wo wouldn't be openly disrespectful to Wa in front of the King, especially if they're as loyal as they say, but Wo's internal thoughts seem incongruous between the two scenes. It's just that something about the tone is a little disjointed.

I'm not sure what purpose Wo's scene serves, but I've written (maybe too much?) about Wa and Wo below and how their dynamic serves to inform the reader and could maybe back up S's impression of Wa?

Pg. 13: You mentioned you should cut Wa's PoV in this chapter even though you like him? I agree. (Killing your darlings, eh?) The fewer PoVs you have, the easier it is to follow. Also, the PoV detracts from the mystery surrounding him, so the less we see through him and the more we hear of him, the more relatable S's fear/wonder is. Of course, I also get the sense you're trying to add depth to his character, make him less of a faceless villain -- but I think the scene with Wo could serve that purpose, considering the comments Wa makes to the King.

Of course, if you decide to incorporate the comment about Wo's dynamic with Wa, you'd be walking a fine line trying to show that Wa isn't terrible while still making it obvious that Wo hates him. I guess you then could take more time to get us to dislike Wo so we like Wa more because Wo dislikes him. God, I'm confused now, between the abbreviated names and the whole complicated like/dislike web. But the real problem is that I'm now compiling a long list of (possibly major) changes that might not actually help you further your goal. So my critiques from page 11 downward are things I personally might do if it were my story, with the information I currently have. You might have something better planned. I'm putting it out there anyway as a sort of stream-of-consciousness reaction/brainstorm.

There's my feedback! It might be disjointed and confusing (what do you know -- it's just like my fiction writing!) and unhelpful, but I did my best.

14 hours ago, sniperfrog said:

Ok. First off, this poem really hit me. I was raised by my grandmother and her health has been fading in recent years and I really felt this because of that. I like the metaphor with the seashell and i think you do a good job of making it work, but there are a couple lines (I think that's the word for it) that don't flow so well, the first two stanzas (I am almost positive that is the right word) in particular. Probably cutting them like @Mandamon mentions above or moving them around might help with this. 

I am not the biggest on poetry, but the content of this really did get my feelings moving, which pretty sure is the whole point of poetry, right? 

Now on to the prologue.

First two paragraphs are pretty great. I like that there are stakes and we are immediately made aware of them.

"As she let her feet rest..." Wouldn't this be claws? I guess I have not confirmed that Z is a dragon at this point, but feet, to me, implies a more humanoid creature than a dragon.

I'm really getting a feeling for the stubbornness of the dragons from this. Good job getting it across in such a subtle way. 

This has me hooked. I think there is a lot here for just two pages and I want more so badly. The idea that something took the dragon's fire is super cool and I can see a multitude of things you can do with this. I can't wait to read more. Sorry I can't do a more exhaustive critique, but, to be honest, I'm not sure I can say much more than what the others have said. 

Thank you! About Seashell Creatures: I'm worried that the metaphor falls flat without the first two stanzas because you won't understand what I'm talking about. I mention this not to try defending it, but to ask what you think -- as the author, my perspective isn't as helpful as your here. Would it be more confusing without the first two stanzas?

Okay, question for y'all: if I explain more about the situation that the dragons are in and how they got there/why they're there, would it make the prologue more useful? Because it still wouldn't detract from the plot of the novel, and I think the ending would make more sense. (I'd be careful about info-dumping, of course.)

On 11/2/2020 at 6:07 PM, Silk said:

And, I wanted to ask since your email mentioned slam partners, is this intended to be slam poetry, specifically? This definitely does not read like what I would call slam poetry, which is a very auditory, performance-based form of poetry, so I’m not critiquing it as such. (But, maybe there’s a regional difference in what’s considered slam poetry?)

I am in a slam poetry club, but I'm no good at performance, so I do only written. But I help others with their poems and they help me with mine.

20 hours ago, Snakenaps said:

My thoughts were, "This is a poem. It does poem things with words.

Well, I'm glad it seems like a poem? If it didn't, I'd have a much bigger problem on my hands.

Thanks for pointing out the weird wordings, all. I'll continue smoothing the rhythms for Seashell Creatures.

As for the prologue: it seems that, if I do want to keep it, it should be simplified and moved to a different location? I'll keep that in mind as I plan. I do like the idea of it being an epic poem, although I don't know exactly how I'd incorporate that since this happens so far away from the book's main setting. Zahra isn't the PoV character in this story -- there are two, a dragon and a human, but she is a character about halfway through the book.

On 11/3/2020 at 6:47 AM, Sarah B said:

I struggled to understand the form. I experimented with reading outloud, quickly and slowly, and couldn't find any rhythm to the syllable pattern. A few words in particular like "fossilization" read awkwardly to me when reading outloud. I counted the lines out, to see if my accent was the problem (we clip a lot of sounds in my area) but the syllables pattern and stanza lenght seems pretty random. The same for any rhyming or repeated sounds.

As for your comment, Sarah -- yeah, this definitely isn't a classic poem. I follow more modern trends, and I tried playing with stanza length on purpose, but I think it comes down to personal preference here. I have been trying to figure out how to make it feel more rhythmic, though.

Well, I think I've said all that will ever need to be said in the email, so I'll just repeat here: no content warnings. Except maybe Seashell Creatures will make you sad? Have at it!

I'd like to submit Monday the 2nd.