honorblades

1 hour ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I think it’s the Spren that would need to store Connection.

I am leaning towards that as well. 

1 minute ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

N. Scads seem to focus more on a Kell as a savior type figure, and focus less on his conman status. S. Scadrial seems to embrace Kell’s manipulative nature, and he seems to have ruled pretty well, which implies certain things. Kell is less psychopathic on N. Scadrial (who seems to think he was a far more empathetic person than he was) but he’s more stable and willing to compromise on S. Scadrial, despite being less empathetic there. 
 

That’s my guess anyway.

This is a good analysis, and although we are probably getting off-topic here, I would love to hear your thoughts on how this may affect Kelsier in the future. 

The ending of BoM, and of course the actual Bands of Mourning themselves seem to suggest Kelsier has larger ambitions than simply helping the Southern Scadrian people survive. Leaving an artifact of that magnitude is unwise unless you have a similar or greater power at your disposal already, and Kelsier is nothing if not clever. Perhaps people's view of Kelsier as a sort of larger-than-life savior figure has elevated his goals? Could Kelsier be attempting to expand his sphere of influence beyond the Scadrian system? 

Man, The Lost Metal cannot come soon enough 

Hello again. What I am putting forth today is a theory, albeit a simple one. Let's begin with some background knowledge. 

Unsealed Metalminds, often referred to as Medallions, are a type of metalmind that is able to be used by anyone, even someone without innate Feruchemical powers. In Era 2, we see them used to store weight, warmth, memories, and famously as the fabled Bands of Mourning. The common medallions that we see can use two, occasionally three attributes in a single device.

In Oathbringer, we see Hoid bond a Cryptic in order to become a Lightweaver. This is a revelation by itself, but it also has deeper implications: we know that worldhopping is difficult for Radiants because the Nahel bond attaches them very strongly to Roshar via their spren. This is similar to the pull Kelsier feels when trying to leave the Scadrial subastral in Mistborn: Secret History. 

However, in Mistborn Era 2, we see Hoid on Scadrial, even though we know that Era 2 takes place after the events of Stormlight 5 (therefore after the time that Hoid has bonded his spren). How can that be? I have a simple theory to explain, along with alternative explanations. 

The Theory in Question: I propose that Hoid is using a medallion that stores either Connection, Identity, or both to specifically store his Connection to Roshar. This severs the tie binding him to the planet and allows him to travel off-world. There are specifics that may differ - perhaps he has to travel to the Cognitive Realm in order for his spren to use the medallion (can a being made of Investiture even use a feruchemical device?), but the concept stays the same. Now, there are two alternatives that I see as being possible: 

1. Hoid is using a method unknown to us at this point to preserve his Nahel bond and still travel off-world. This doesn't seem worthy to talk about right now because, of course, how do we talk about something we are not aware of? But if anyone has alternative theories as to how Hoid gets off world, I certainly welcome them in this thread. 

2. Hoid breaks his Nahel bond in order to travel to Scadrial. I mean . . . It seems obvious to me that this isn't the case. It is, I suppose, plausible that Hoid bonds a spren in Oathbringer, keeps it for the few years until he needs to travel to Scadrial (end of SA 5? in the time-skip? During SA 6?) and then breaks the bond, presumably killing the spren or making them a Deadeye. I do not believe this to be very likely.

Some people have proposed that a Radiant might be able to simply "leave" their spren on Roshar, sacrificing their powers in order to travel further than the Rosharan system. I do not think that this is likely or possible. 

You may be thinking, Hey, this theory sounds too simple. And you'd be right; it is very simplistic. The reason I believe it to be true is that the mechanics are fairly complicated. The method requires someone to either;

A. already be a worldhopper from Scadrial (or from somewhere with access to Southern Scadrial technology, e.g. Silverlight) who then successfully bonds spren, a process I deem to be uncommon

OR

B. a Knight Radiant with knowledge and access to off-world technology. This second option will quickly become more common as the SA series progresses, but currently it is still quite uncommon. 

In other words, even though this process is simple once you have the requisite technology (and aptitude to bond a spren), these things are so uncommon at our place in the timeline as to be unfeasible for the average Rosharan or Scadrian. Therefore, I think it is a perfectly reasonable explanation for how Hoid does what he does during the events of Mistborn Era 2. 


Please feel free to poke holes in this theory in the comments, try as I might I always seem to forget some crucial point. Life is a learning experience however, and I appreciate the opportunity to learn from my mistakes!

Thanks for reading! 

2 hours ago, Kingsdaughter613 said:

I suspect that Kel will appear differently if he is being the Survivor or the Sovereign. As the Survivor he’s viewed as deity, but I think the Sovereign is more of a King Arthur type figure. So he would appear differently on North and South Scadrial, possibly with minor personality shifts.

 

I think there is an additional layer of complexity here in that we don't know how Kelsier got a physical body again. These assumptions would be true about Kelsier's cognitive shadow, but depending on how Kelsier has stapled his body into the physical realm, the beliefs people have about him may not have any visible effect. 

I assume hat does not apply to his mental state, however. Much like what we suspect of the Heralds on Roshar, I would imagine people's view of Kelsier has some type of effect on how he views himself, and possibly on his actions as well. 

Just now, Bliev said:

Dalinar told everyone about Evi...etc. etc. lol

I think it's very interesting (and a good sign for the future of the orders) that even after Dalinar reveals the truth about Evi, people still basically worship him in the tower. I was worried that was going to completely destroy his credibility. 

4 minutes ago, robardin said:

Based on that show, at least, for comic effect he should have put in some kind of regular patron who acted as the house know-it-all, expounding his semi-expertise on every topic to everyone, obliviously even to those who clearly would know better first-hand.

This sounds like a job for The Lopen. 

9 minutes ago, I Used To Be A Fish said:

This chapter isn't just necessarily putting Adolin as an Edgedancer.

I mean that seems to be the way it's going but...

He certainly was there when Kaladin needed him.

In the Discord last night people were musing that Adolin won’t revive Maya and become an Edgedancer per se, but rather will fully revive Maya as a shardblade only. Sort of like a Rosharan version of an Awakened blade.
 

Also, I am pretending I do not see your Stoneward suggestion, as I really want Adolin to be an Edgedancer, because... well. You can probably figure it out. 

Like some twisted version of limbo, it seems that Brandon is really trying to see, how low can Kaladin go? T_T

To bring some levity back to this chapter, the only thing I could think while the gang was in Jez’s Duty is that they are in the Rosharan version of a sports bar, which I thought was hilarious. Like if you’ve moved to a different city but there’s still one place that hangs your team’s flag on the wall and shows their games every Saturday... storms now even this is getting melancholic! 
 

And finally, to all those that were convinced we were getting a Venli chapter this time around.. better luck next time! See you next week! 

3 minutes ago, Realmatic Shadow said:

Maybe as an attempt to get a consistent, omnipresent source of Stormlight, by forcing the entire planet into a permanent highstorm?

I'm thinking maybe it would be more like "we need to stop the Everstorm for good, because the Fused keep respawning too quickly". They succeed in stopping the Everstorm, but in doing so they inadvertently also kill the highstorm, turning it into just constant rain. 
 

On 9/17/2020 at 11:44 AM, PrinceGenocide said:

12). They don't seem to know much about human tech progress and how it might affect the war either. 

I'm sure a big part that we will see in RoW & beyond is the humans increasing use of fabrials, which are really the enslavement of spren. Can't imagine the Honorspren will be very cool with that going forward. 

6 hours ago, beewall said:

Hell, Odium could probably break the highstorm, if he needed to do that to kill the SF.

I would imagine that killing the SF would, by extension, mess up the storm. I am thinking that this may be what happens to initiate the endless storm/rain we hear about in some of the Death Rattles. That, or humans using the Dawnshards to break the highstorm...

On 9/18/2020 at 1:44 PM, Potus said:

Brandon has also said that Dustbringers will not be portrayed as edgy evil people. He understands that's what they may seek from their name and surges, but we should expect that not every Dustbringer will be against the KR. 

He doesn't want them to fall under that stereotype

This is true, but keep in mind I am not claiming that any of these Orders, or their members, are evil. Even Nale's Skybreakers are not evil, I would even call them justified in their own way. I am simply suggesting that some of the KR Orders would have opposing goals to the rest of the Orders. It is odd to me that we won't see much of the Dustbringer's perspective until later in the back 5, I wonder if there will be a Dustbringer main character at that point? 

On 9/20/2020 at 7:20 AM, Chana said:

Wasn't Diagram's goal to save humanity though? Like from what I remember from Oathbringer T wanted to make a deal with Odium that his people will be saved and then become a king of as much as possible so that as many humans are saved. 

I suppose it depends on your view of morality, but Big T is definitely an "ends justify the means" kind of guy. So sure, he is saving some people, but he is also sacrificing many more. Does the cost outweigh the benefit? 

On 9/15/2020 at 11:00 PM, The Traveller said:

I mean spark wants to destroy radiants by helping T and does not mind working for odium! Is there any indication that suggests that other Ashspren will also join them?

Good point, there is no direct indication of this, it is just an assumption I have made based on the nature of spren as we have seen. I am assuming that many spren communities are like-minded, but this may not necessarily be the case. Spark could be an outlier among the Ashspren. 

9 minutes ago, Innovation said:

 Didn’t the Diagram actually try to make a Dustbringer? I remember reading somewhere, maybe in Oathbringer, that the Diagram recruited people with the right attitude and tried to attract a Spren to bond. 

You are correct, and looking at the passage again I’m not sure I was right in my assumption. It could be the Malata was already a part of the Diagram and simply had the right aptitude to bond a spren. 

Quote

Adrotagia had entered with Malata, the Dustbringer; they were growing in companionship as Adrotagia attempted to secure an emotional bond with this lesser Diagram member who had suddenly been thrust into its upper echelons, an event predicted by the Diagram—which explained that Dustbringers would be the Radiants most likely to accept their cause, and at that Taravangian felt proud, for actually locating one of their number who could bond a spren had not, by any means, been an assured accomplishment.

I suppose it doesn’t matter too much, as my main point still stands: the ashspren don’t like humans as a whole. 

In light of some new info from Chapter 11, I’d like to put forth.. not a theory, just something I noticed. 

We have some vague hinting of the three orders that will largely break from the other Knights Radiant:

The Skybreakers: Or at least all those who follow Nale, of course. We will continue to see a few outliers such as Szeth, perhaps they will be led by him? In a recent WoB, Brandon said...

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I would blame some of how Nale is acting more on the highspren.

I think that this would suggest that even without Nale's direct influence, newer Skybreakers might be inclined to side against humanity, and therefore against the other Orders.

The Dustbringers: not a whole lot of evidence here, but from what Spark says, the Ashspren don’t seem to like humans. Malata of course also works for the Diagram, whose goals are opposed to those of the KR in most cases. However I believe it is important to remember that Malata was a Dustbringer first, then joined the Diagram, not the other way around. She was already predisposed to their ideals (as predicted by the Diagram, even):

Quote

Spark is fine with what we're doing," Malata said, pressing her finger down and adding another swirl to the table. "I told you, the rest of them are idiots. They assume all the spren are going to be on their side. Never mind what the Radiants did to Spark's friends, never mind that organized devotion to Honor is what killed hundreds of ashspren in the first place." 

The Willshapers: Just the hint from this chapter... 

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Well, I have been contacted by a spren who represents an entire people in Shadesmar. They realize that perhaps we deserve a second chance more than humans do.

So, in summary of the little information we have, it appears that the Ashspren, Reachers, and Highspren all seem to be opposed to humanity and the KR orders. Could this be related to the Honorspren stopping bonding of new Knights? At this point, it seems like only the Cultivationspren are really enthusiastic about forming new bonds (and that is really only from the attitude of a spren merchant in the cognitive realm). This doesn't look good for the new Orders. Something will have to change soon. 

This quote about Fused history has me intrigued: 
 

Quote

As beings thousands of years old, each one had a lore and history long enough to fill books. It angered them that no one knew them individually this time around.

Emphasis is mine. This implies that the Singers had a culture that persisted between desolations, perhaps even to a greater extent than what the humans had. I think this would be something akin to the lore surrounding the Heralds, but perhaps more specific because there are far more Fused than there are Heralds. 

Also, I'd like to again highlight the parallel of the different brands of Fused & orders of Knights being seen as a cohesive entity but in reality are not. They are more alike than either realizes, I think. 

Anyway, good chapter, as always. Can't wait for the next one. 

On 9/8/2020 at 4:58 PM, Karger said:

I think I will respond to you all here as your thoughts touch mine. 

So, sorry for the late response, work has been crazy lately. I’m not gonna quote your whole response but I am responding to all of it, of course. 
 

Do you think that Kaladin will undergo some sort of (physical or metaphorical) death+resurrection in either this book or the next? Or do you think it’s more likely that he straight up dies? I personally find it hard to believe that Kaladin will become a villain, so for now I will discount that. 
 

It seems to me, thinking in meta perspective, Kaladin’s arc will involve one more major failure / roadblock and then continue on towards redemption (and by extension, advancing to be a 5th Oath Windrunner). That way, in the Back 5, we can see him as a sort of background leader figure adjacent to the main cast. 

That is, of course, assuming he survives. I would not put it past Brandon to twist the knife and have Kal die in a very tragic way. 

2 minutes ago, paperstones said:

I think it is two part. First is Kaladin saying the 4th oath. Second is Rlain bonding his Spren. 

 

Kaladin reaching the next Ideal shows humans can reach that level of "commitment". Also, with Rlain it shows that the humans and Singers can unite together against Odium and they aren't necessarily using the power against each other. 

Both very good predictions, love this 

1. Does anything feel perturbed by the ominous ending to this chapter? Makes me nervous.. perhaps Kaladin isn’t as safe as we all think he is. 
 

2. Well, we know why the Honorspren aren’t bonding any more Radiants, but does anyone have any guesses on what will convince them to change their minds? 
 

3. I wonder if Dalinar swearing by The God Beyond is an indication of him becoming more cosmere-aware? My guess would be via Ash & Taln, though there could be an open worldhopper that we just haven’t met yet. 

This sort of battle-math is why I believe the Desolation will have to be effectively resolved before the big time skip between SA 5 & 6. 
 

That, or the Radiants have to find a way to stop the Fused from resurrecting during every Everstorm. 
 

Otherwise, the likelihood of the main cast surviving that large of a time skip seems abysmal. 

In Edgedancer, Arclo tells Lift something like:

Quote

Long ago, in a land you will never visit...

And of course Felt’s little hint to Dalinar in Oathbringer: 

Quote

“Well, best I could figure, she doesn’t like foreigners.” 

“I might have trouble too”

“You’re a little less foreign, sir.” 

I think now that the main cast is realizing the possibility of other worlds, weird comments like this will carry a lot more weight. 

I am thinking that, because of the time skip between SA 5 & 6, the Desolation will have to end either in RoW or SA5. I just can’t see a war going on “off-screen” for that long between books. Similarly, it’s possible but I doubt SA5 will end on a low point. 

What does that mean for RoW? I’m thinking people are going to die. Up on the chopping block: 

Dalinar. Although he is the only Bondsmith currently, I can definitely see a big sacrifice in Dalinar’s future. Something akin to Harmony ascending in Mistborn, especially if Dalinar sticks around as a mostly-off-screen mentor figure for the new Radiants. I also believe this sacrifice moment may be what Brandon is looking forward to in this book. 
 

Shallan. I don’t think she is as safe as everyone thinks. It’s true her story is not finished yet (and this is probably my Adolin bias talking) but I could see her death acting as both a catalyst for character development & a knife in the hearts of readers. 
 

Adolin. I can definitely see him reviving Maya, establishing that precedent, and then dying. Saying those words hurt me though because I love him so much T.T 

Vasher. I have a small theory that Vasher will parallel Lightsong and heroically give up his Divine Breath to save someone, or perhaps do some funky Cosmere magic like revive the Sibling? Scholar that he is, I can see him using his DB in a unique way. 
 

Anyway, great post on this topic as I am definitely getting ominous vibes from the early chapters we have seen as well. I feel like I am sitting in the theater waiting for a horror movie to start, and the lights just dimmed . . . 

Nalthis, Taldain, and Scadrial namedrop, I love it. I wonder if this is related to Brandon hinting that by the time RoW releases he will have canonized all the Shardic Intents... maybe we will get a new one in this book? 

also, I can’t help but think that Lopen “almost dying a few months back” had to be at or related to Aimia. What in the Almighty’s Tenth Name happened there?? Dawnshard can’t come soon enough! 

5 minutes ago, Gilphon said:

so we can't be 100% confident that she's right, but she did suggest that it was responsible for the destruction of Aimia, which doesn't sound like Mindlessness to me. 

Agree. Both Nergaoul and Ashertmarn are destructive but not in a particularly focused way, it would be very interesting to see an Unmade that can directly destroy. 

16 minutes ago, Innovation said:

Maybe Dai-Gonarthis was just in the general area, like the Thrill is in Alethkar. Or maybe Dai-Gonatthis is just enhancing something that was already there. 

I’m very eager to see if Dai-Gonarthis is a simple force like the Thrill or if they are more aware.. I am leaning towards sentience though. 

Loved this chapter more than I thought I would actually, oh boy.
 

I definitely think there was some direct Odium influence when Moash is talking to Kaladin. The part that sticks out to me is how Kaladin is seemingly unable to hear Syl, it strikes me as similar to this part in OB: 

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The Stormfather’s weeping faded as Odium somehow shoved the spren away, separating them

Could be an Unmade’s influence as well, as others have said. 

and then, of course, Renarin’s glorious entrance, what a perfect foil for Moash in that scene. I wonder if this is the particular moment that causes Dalinar to transfer Kaladin off of active duty?

I’m also thinking Renarin’s “perfect self” ability (sounds a heck of a lot like allomantic Malatium actually) will be able to help Kaladin progress in his Oaths, or perhaps help out with his depression so that he can progress through the Oaths on his own? 

2 hours ago, Lightspine said:

However, I think there's a much less convoluted explanation that draws on mechanics we've already seen. I already posted a short comment about this on the Chapters thread, but there's some more to break down so I'm deciding to make this a whole post. . . 

I don't have anything to add here, I just wanted to say this is a great write up of a theory I have not heard before. I think that the real explanation is going to end up being very close to this idea. Kudos.