slavagh

It is weird to me that there is yet another separate splinter of Honor in Shinowar. I think it is more likely that someone who can harm Honor’s power is in Shinovar. And that person is Ishar. I believe preserving the remnant of Honor is separate from Dalinar’s journey and the contest of champions. That is where the main power of Honor is in danger. I think Kaladin will have to protect Stormfather from Ishar. 1) Ishar has animosity toward Stormfather. ‘He curses me at night’ - from Oathbringer. 2) Ishar tried to still Dalinar’ bond to Stormfather. 3) ‘The Reforged Spear becomes the hope of spren’ – from the back cover. 4) Stormfather came from the Wind. Maybe that is why she is concerned. 5) It is implied in RoW that Dalinar nearly killed Stormfather by pulling him into the Physical realm. 6) Ishar experiments. What if Ishar wasn't trying to give spren a body and keep them alive in the Physical realm? What if he was just practicing? Maybe his main goal is to pull Stormfather.

To give up power if you feel you are not fit for it is the responsible thing to do. He still gives his all attention to combat Odium and help the coalition. How is he avoiding responsibility? Why does Adolin think he is worse of a man than his father thinks he is? He is ashamed of what he did. I always read it as satisfaction from the vengeance and shame from the way of doing so. It is a complex feeling, vague enough that a more sinister interpretation may be more valid. I just can't justify the sinister interpretation of the character, because I can't back it up with other instances.

'Good ending' for me is satisfying character ark and survival. I am confident in good character arks, but with high stakes, some characters are at risk of dying.

I agree with everything. The book doesn't need to sacrifice so many character arks to have a surprise Odium's champion. I prefer a 'good ending' for all major characters. But I am afraid it is impossible for a book with such high stakes.

He regretted the way of killing not the killing itself. That is part of the reason he refused the crown. That was my read. What was Dalinar's repentance for destroying Rathalas? He took the responsibility for his actions.

Kaladin did the opposite in similar circumstances. At one point he was tempted to fly and kill Amaram in the middle of the night. He decided against it. So I think the text of the book frames what Adolin did as dishonorable. I just personally disagree. Also, I think he did repent, after he told Dalinar the truth and took the responsibility for the action. For him to say that he regrets killing him would be disingenuous.

The killing was justified. The problem is that he wasn't transparent about it. He should have told Dalinar from the get-go. But I agree this can't be the justification for him turning evil. All major characters have done much worse, including Kaladin, who was a part of the plot against the king he swore to protect.

Yeah. With Dalinar adopting Kaladin this quote is really scary. The location of the duel is really weird. How a fused champion will enter the tower? I assume the protection will need to be lifted. Something tells me both champions would not have access to Stormlight / Voidlight / Towerlight. Agree. But I am not sure if the refusal of both champions to kill each other will count as 'breaking the terms'. If Dalinar refuses to fight, Adolin could just kill him. If both refuse to kill each other, which of them will count as the one who breaks them? Dalinar will need to make something stupid to break the terms.

The smart thing for Dalinar to do if Adolin is the champion is to put Kaladin against him. Do you think Adolin can justify killing Kaladin?

You can even corrupt Maya and his shard plate. That may explain the black shardplate from Honor's vision in Oathbringer. Adolin also fits in 'something terribly familiar in them' eyes description of the champion. But I really hope nothing of this happens. I would prefer literally anyone else for the champion role.

There is another problematic thing. You need to separate Adolin and Maya for all of this to work. I doubt she will be OK with this.

I agree. It is possible to exploit Adolin's resentment of his father and persuade him that TOdium is better for Roshar. But not in his current state. A lot of groundwork needs to be done to justify his shift. I also agree that Shallan is the biggest stumbling block here. Just threatening here won't work for me. You either need to bring her to Odium's side or kill her (especially not by Odium's forces). Odium can play his 'give me your pain' card in this situation. I am afraid this is where the book is going with Adolin. He is the most gut-punching choice for the Odium's champion. Sadly, I'm not fond of this choice at all. It may ruin an amazing character for me. He is a far better choice for Dalinar's champion.

I believe there is no definitive answer to that. I assume it is in the cognitive realm when dismissed because of the same 10-second rule as for the Deadeye Shardblades. It is curious what will happen when someone goes through the Oathgate with a bonded Honorblade. Maybe its cognitive representation is the same blade as in the Physical realm.

I think he is talking to Odium. Odium is manipulating him to become the champion of Dalinar. Maybe Kaladin's participation will give him the desirable outcome.

My whole point is that he unbonded the blade willingly to give it to Chana. Your argument is valid. Honorblade doesn't dismiss automatically when it falls from the grip. It can still be bonded to Taln. It sounds like a pretty cool moment if Taln just summons his blade back after regaining sanity.

I assume they know based on this quote you mentioned. "We kept your secret" part. It will be funny if they are as clueless as Gavilar with all the evidence they have. I thought that she was on a cool mission after returning. But I really like the idea that she is afraid and hiding. This is much more likely.

I believe that the blade was unbonded when he arrived. He and the blade could have been separated in Kholinar when the swap happened. But I agree, it is hard to explain how somebody had access to either of them. I like this. I think the blade payoff will be either in Shallan's or Kaladin's storyline. So Shin makes sense. The only problem I have with it is that the Shin know about Taln's sacrifice and what the other Heralds have done to him. He is probably a deific figure for them. Why did they leave him in Kholinar? I guess they could have been corrupted by the Unmade by that time. Can I have a link? I would like to read it.

They might be the exception to the rule. If that is the case, I hope there is some cool explanation as to why.

1) I don’t remember the description of Nale’s eyes. I assume he is permanently a lighteyes because he is 5th ideal radiant. His eyes are not supposed to change during summoning. 2) Are you sure about Kalak’s eyes? I honestly don’t remember how his eyes are described. I’ll pay attention during the next RoW reread. 3) Ash is a lighteyes definitely. I don't have any explanation as to why. But she is a weird Herald. She is Yesrien's daughter in her 20's. Her father looks in his 30th. 4) Taln's eyes being dark with a blade in hand is still weird to me. But it is likely that shards / bonds don't affect the eyes of the heralds at all.

This theory is based on two assumptions. The first, the thief knew what he was doing and planned this. Basically, he is not some random guy who improvised on the spot. The second, whoever took the blade made the swap. There is a possibility that Wit planted the deadblade after somebody stole the Honorblade. But it is too far-fetched. 1) Why somebody swapped the blades? - To avoid being chased. It is not a valid option. It is easier to kill the convoy to the Shattered planes and avoid spending a precious resource. - To trick someone that the blade went to Shattered Plains. It is possible, but too convoluted. - To protect Taln. Somebody might have assumed that Taln dismissed his stolen blade and would kill him to get it. 2) Who knew Taln would be in Kholinar? Other Heralds, Odium’s forces, and Stormfather. All secret societies could have known from the Heralds. 3) None of the secret societies have done the swap. - Nale and the skybreakers wouldn’t abandon Taln. - Diagram, Sons of Honor, Ghostbloods, and Aesudan are more interested in Taln himself than his blade. They would not let him go to the shattered planes. - Odium affiliates would have killed Taln without bothering with the blade swapping. - It is hard for all of them to do the swap with Wit’s presence. 4) Herald’s eyes. I assume all Heralds are a darkeyes when they are not bonded to the blade / spren. Jezrien is a darkeye in the vision after the Recreance. I don’t see why the summoning of the bonded blade would have a different effect on the eyes of a Herald. 5) Taln’s eyes. Why are they dark with the blade in his hands? The easiest explanation is that he unbonded the blade. 6) Prime suspect. It is a Herald. The one who died on the night of Gavilar's death. The one who was heading to Kholinar. Who is that Herald? Most likely it is Chana (Hello Chana Davar theory). 7) Chana’s eyes and blade. Why is she a lighteyes in Davar's household? There are a lot of possibilities. Proto surgebinding before becoming a Herald, yet another retrieved Honorblade, she was bonded to a spren during the Recreance. But the easiest explanation is that she had a deadblade. From WOB's we know that a live bonded spren can go to Braize with the Herald. I think the same can be said about the dead spren. The bonded deadblade won't appear next to the body if you kill the Herald. It will go to Braize. Theory. Chana asked Taln for the blade. Odium forces prevented their physical contact for the swap to happen on Braize. Taln arrived on Roshar, unbonded the blade, and went to Kholinar. Chana took the blade from unstable Taln and made a swap using her deadblade to prevent him from getting harmed. Wit is OK with the swap because she is another Herald. 9) Why had she needed an Honorblade? My best guess is to use Kholinar Oathgates. She, as the Herald, is more likely to convince the spren of the Oathgates to allow her the passage to Shadesmar. Maybe allowing her the passage, made the Oathgates susceptible to the corruption by Unmade.

Yeah, this makes sense. I like this idea.

Hero of Ages spoiler: What do you mean she was close to witness the fight? Being on Roshar is close enough given that distance doesn't really matter for Shards. I assume the Stormfather has only a splinter of power. A large one, but still quite a limited amount. You can use a limited amount to Ascend, but not necessarily to become a shard. Other splinters are spren. Do you think that is it? There are no more large splinters of Honor left after the fight? How can he reunite splintered pieces that have gained sentience? It would be killing. That is why I am leaning toward something (other than what Stormfather is holding) that can be absorbed. Something like large chunks of power in the Cognitive or Physical realm that could have been left on Braize after the fight.

"In the top room" vision is strange to me. I don't think he recorded it the last. He is sane in that vision, which contradicts statements that he was raving at the later stages of his life. Some visions (like Recreance) might be recorded by Stormfather. Stormfather has the same voice as Honor. The only time we actually see Honor is in "the top room" vision. I agree that he was already wounded at some point before the final confrontation. But there might have been a second fight with the final blow with immediate death. “I saw His corpse, saw Him die when Odium murdered Him. And I…I fled". This quote is not about something prolonged. I agree. Recombining sentient Splinters is unlikely and a kind of evil thing to do. But do you think Stormfather is just "gatekeeping" the majority of Honor's power? There needs to be someplace where there is a lot of Honor's power that is not sentient, and Odium doesn't see it as a threat (the place that he controls). Otherwise, I don't see how the whole revival thing is possible. It is hard for me to grasp the concept of splintering something that has no location or real essence. You essentially splintering the idea. And it has ramifications everywhere in Cosmere. But all those WoBs pretty much confirm what you are saying.

1) Totally valid arguments. To be honest, I don’t understand Spiritual Realm that much. My interpretation is that location doesn’t have meaning in the Spiritual realm, because it is replaced with the connection between objects. But this connection manifests as a location in SR and PR. Odium somehow moved throughout Cosmere to kill Shards, without investing a lot. He probably created some kind of connection with the places he visited. And for Honor to fight Odium he might have established a connection to Braize, connecting his power to Braize, leaving a large portion with Stormfather on Roshar. The weird storm around Braize might be his remnants. Hero o Ages spoilers: 2) My other option is: Hero o Ages spoilers:

1) How did Honor die? “I saw His corpse, saw Him die when Odium murdered Him. And I…I fled” I know that the Shard’s death can be a protracted event. Probably Honor was injured for a long time. But this quote from Stormfather let me believe there was a final confrontation with Odium which resulted in his immediate death. According to The Sibling, it happened shortly after the Recreance. 2) Was Odium stuck on braze from around the Recreance to the Final desolation? I believe yes. There is a lack of evidence about his influence on Roshar up until the arrival of the Everstorm in Shadesmare. You would think there would be at least one secret society of Odium worshipers. It is logical for him to establish a base of support for himself to divide humans and prepare for the Final desolation. We know he was very successful in recruiting humans in the previous desolations. He had at least millennia after recreance to do something. But there is no evidence he did. Why he didn’t support the whole False Desolation thing? It wasn’t such a bad idea to try one desolation without the Fused? If BAM was able to make Reagals, so did he. He even could have protected her from the whole imprisonment thing. I think it is the evidence that he was stuck on Braize. Sja-anat said in her chapter that she lost connection with Odium and was slumbering for millennia. He could have done it intentionally. But why? Maybe he just couldn’t provide that connection. 3) So where did Honor die? Isn’t it logical to assume that the fight between Odium and Honor happened on the planet where Odium was stuck before and after the fight? I believe Honor died on Braize. That is where the final confrontation happened, and that is where his remnants are. Why is it relevant? It helps me to solve the Oathpact contradiction. 4) Oathpact contradiction. On one hand, there is a lot of evidence that the Oathpact is meaningless now. The narrative signals to the reader about that. This desolation is called Final, Raboniel says that this is the last time. The Everstorm can revive fused without sending them to braize. Now you can kill a herald. But most importantly, now you can kill the Fused. What is the point of Oathpact now? Why introduce all those hurdles if the endgame is the revival of the Oathpact? On the other hand, there is the foreshadowing of the revival of the Oath pact in The Rhythm of War. Jasnah talks about it with Ash, Dalinal talks about it with Stormfather after a confrontation with Nale, and most importantly Ishar says he can revive it. It was a moment of clarity, and he is the creator of the Oathpact. In The Stormlight 5 prologue, we are introduced to the concept of replacing a Herald. It seems like a hint towards the revival of the Oathpact, but with the new Heralds. 5) Stormlight 5 finale prediction. I think the outcome of the battle of champions is Odium free of Honor’s restrictions. Which is pure speculation. But there are a lot of threads about this topic. This leaves good guys in a very bad position. I see only one option for them: to revive Honor. For that, they will need to go to Braize. How do you go to Braize? Odium is probably will stop you from doing that easily. Here is where the Oathpact comes in handy. Heroes will revive the Oathpact (mostly new members) purely to have a passage on Braize to retrieve the remnants of Honor. After that, they can broker a deal with Odium from a stronger position.